Possible New Layout Competition

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
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Julian Roberts
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Julian Roberts » Wed Jul 12, 2023 6:17 am

Hi Terry - I take your points, and do not disagree, but would also say the following. My point was that, should there be entries of such different sizes, a shunting plank should not be judged against a Stoke Summit for example, nor either against a Kettlewell or Garlieston.

A quite small exhibition's organiser was recently lamenting the absence of a any large crowd pulling layout being available so I think Worzel has a good point. Shap Summit had a large audience at the April York show. Though three years is unlikely to be enough time to create something of that scale. Also I suggest that with some ingenuity quite lot of layout could be arranged to fit into a box on wheels the size of the largest type of suitcase you can see at airports. Another case or rucsac could be used to contain the layout structures - buildings etc, and stock.

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David B
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby David B » Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:55 am

The aim of any challenge is to encourage as many people as possible to be involved. Emphasis so far has largely but not entirely, been on layouts. Building a layout is quite an undertaking and commitment in time and materials. I feel this will put some people off. I, for example, would be most unlikely to take this on (building a layout), much as I like the idea.

I do, though, really enjoy making things so suggest a category which does not involve all the electrics and movement, but does have some track and perhaps a turnout. I have seen several beautifully produced dioramas which act as a backdrop for photographing locos and rolling stock, so I suggest a category for a diorama which would allow more people to be involved. It could be a stand-alone diorama or a section of a layout, a module that can be dropped in to a larger project.

When I was involved with creating the virtual Scalefour North International in 2021, we brought back the Showcase and asked people to send images of their 'best' work. It drew a big response with nigh on a hundred contributions. As we are thinking towards the 50/60 year anniversary of the Society, and again to encourage as many people to become involved, I suggest a Showcase category. It would be very nice to see the models 'in the flesh' at Scaleforum but we should be mindful of those members who are overseas or too far away to attend a show. For them, we could accept digital entries, as perhaps we can for any layout or static contribution, if such is to be included.

Let us see if we can find challenges that involve as many members as possible.

Jeremy Good
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Jeremy Good » Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:41 pm

Just a quick note to say that the Committee Meeting this Wednesday afternoon will discuss the proposals for a Layout Competition/Challenge.

If anyone else has any comments to add or to support what has already been said please make them now so that we can consider these as part of our deliberations.

Thanks

Jeremy

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:18 pm

Personally I think it's a great idea. I doubt I'll be entering this time as I already have a layout underway.

But having built layouts in 2 of the challenges mentioned (P4 D&E and EMGS) I've got the following thoughts;
Both challenges were for layouts operable by no more than 2 people and transportable by car (not in a car - still bitter and twisted about that...) :D
Building even a small layout in 2 or 3 years will be a challenge for many, especially if they are new to the scale and need stock as well. Look at the ratio of how many layouts had initial plans submitted to the number that actually made the final show. Keeping it simple and relatively small is going to help.
It will also keep transportation and accommodation costs down of the final event.

In EMGS's case, the challenge was to advertise the RTR B6 points and track which the society had brought to the market (incidentally they also had some members commenting on their accuracy). My personal feeling is that EMGS members are 'generally' less confident in their ability than P4 and see EM as a stepping stone from 00, so having a proprietary track system maybe has more relevance to EM. Hence British Finescale B7 EM turnouts are also stocked and sold via the EMGS stores.

But before anyone shouts, I'm in both societies (like a lot of us on here) and I don't do 'them and us' from whichever side of the workbench you happen to be leaning on.

British Finescale P4 points are a commercially available product and while supported by the P4 society are not exclusive to it. So is the challenge to promote their use showing how easy it is to start in P4, or a challenge to celebrate the society's anniversary, or both? My preference is the anniversary challenge leaving the individual to chose whether they use British Finescale points or something else. But I can see the appeal of the RTR angle so would fully support whatever the committee decides.

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Julian Roberts
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Julian Roberts » Wed Jul 19, 2023 6:43 am

One more suggestion. Question, what is the date after which layouts must have been started? Now, for example? - three years would not be long. My own might be ready in 2026 and it's been 3 years already since I started.

How about there be no time limit how far back the layout was started? That could stimulate all those unfinished or abandoned projects, including ones that didn't make it to completion in the previous challenge, to be completed and thereby increase the pool of layouts available for the future exhibition scene.

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jim s-w
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby jim s-w » Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:23 am

Julian Roberts wrote:One more suggestion. Question, what is the date after which layouts must have been started? Now, for example? - three years would not be long. My own might be ready in 2026 and it's been 3 years already since I started.


Oh I dunno. These 2 images were taken 25 months apart

Image
Image

If as a society we can break this recent trend of over complicating absolutely everything to the Nth degree and get back to actually getting stuff done it's doable. (It's like e4um on here recently!)

Julian Roberts wrote:How about there be no time limit how far back the layout was started? That could stimulate all those unfinished or abandoned projects, including ones that didn't make it to completion in the previous challenge, to be completed and thereby increase the pool of layouts available for the future exhibition scene.


I do like that idea ;)
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

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steve howe
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby steve howe » Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:17 am

Perhaps a criteria could be imposed on size, i.e must be transported in a domestic (non-commercial) vehicle?

Steve

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PeteT
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby PeteT » Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:37 am

It does seem like there are two themes going on here:
1. - a general layout building challenge with the 2026 anniversary in mind.
2. - a layout challenge specifically based around the new point kits, with their availability and ease and speed of use - if not 100% prototype fidelity - in mind.

A deadline is always good to get something actually achieved, but I think for most people as Julian said it is probably quite ambitious. However being 'forced' to use the new points would at least help keep it simple. It could have rules attached, such as a mimimum of 2 points, and or at least 75% of visible points being these new kits (allowing for a slip etc).

My only slight issue with (2) is that it is targetting a specific new supplier - while C&L and Exactoscale bits have been available to get us going for ages - but as long as the competition was sold in the right way - get something built - then it could help the other suppliers make more sales going forward (as well as plain track components).

I would personally vote for option 2, but at the same time am not going to 100% commit at this stage so this might not be a particularly useful vote! :?

Mark Tatlow
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Mark Tatlow » Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:43 am

PeteT wrote:am not going to 100% commit at this stage


Bad luck Pete, your name is already on the list from your earlier reply...............
Mark Tatlow

DougN
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby DougN » Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:26 pm

Picking up on the line from Jim above what about a "getting things done challenge"

Rules:
1 a layout suitable for exhibition
2 transportable by private transport, large SUV included
3 speedy construction using the new BFS points or exactoscale or c&L point kits. Slips and crossings excluded.
4 able to cope with at least 2 locomotives
5 a scenic view!

Simple straight forward.. with a start and finish date!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

Terry Bendall
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:26 am

DougN wrote:Picking up on the line from Jim above what about a "getting things done challenge"


Things can be done quickly. The construction of Elcot Road took about 2 1/2 years with the construction from initail concept to completion being described every month in Rail Express magazine. It was a struggle at times but publishing deadlines are a wonderful way of getting things done as are exhibition deadlines. :)

Terry Bendall

MartinWales
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby MartinWales » Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:24 pm

Sounds similar to the recent Chairman's Challenge from the EMGS!

Jeremy Good
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Jeremy Good » Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:59 pm

Just to confirm that yesterday’s Committee Meeting confirmed that there will be a Scalefour Jubilee Layout Challenge with an end date of 2026.

Full details will be announced at Scaleforum 2023 once the final rules have been prepared and ratified.

Jeremy Good
Chairman

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Hardwicke
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Hardwicke » Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:00 am

Terry Bendall wrote:There have been two layout challenges in the past. The 1883 Challenge devised by Chris Challis came to its conclusion in 2005. The main criteria were a footprint of 18.83 square feet and operated by two people.

The diesel and electric layout challenge was devised by me, stealing the great idea deveised by Chris, as a way of encouraging people to model the diesel and electric era to P4 standards and that was concluded in 2008.
In both cases quite a lot of the layouts are still on the exhibition circut
Terry Bendall

And one or two are still in the process of being completed :D :shock:
Actually Forge Mill Sidings was completed, but needs a little work on damage to one building and the potential rebuild of the wagon turntable. I won't remove the present one until the new one is working. One day the signals will work ..
Kirkcliffe Coking Plant is a bit more ambitious, and I was unhappy with it at the time. New information of Smithywood, on which it is based, means there are certain redesigns planned. I have enough coke wagons for a prototypical length train now, but an all steel solid one with no raves would be nice. One point needs replacing to remove a horrendously sharp curve that caused derailments. Perhaps I'll build that Walthers coking plant one day even if it is HO.
Michael
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Hardwicke » Fri Aug 11, 2023 11:03 am

Being the Diamond Jubilee perhaps the inclusion of a diamond crossing as a major feature of a cameo layout could be the criteria.
Newcastle, Shrewsbury, or York anyone?
Or lots of LMS 5XP locos.... :D
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

Mark Tatlow
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Re: Possible New Layout Competition

Postby Mark Tatlow » Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:44 pm

The wait for an update is nearly over.............

At 13:00 on Saturday at Scaleforum, on behalf of the Society I will announce the Jubilee Layout Challenge and set out its main principals, eligibility criteria and key dates.

Posters about the challenge will then be posted within the venue and copies of the rules (and indeed entry forms) on hand at the Society stand.

For those of you who cannot make it to Scaleforum, shortly after the announcement I will publish details on this forum, RMweb and hopefully one other forum. Full details will also be included in the next Scalefour News along with announcements in most of the model railway press.

I hope lots of you will succumb to the temptation of entering..............
Mark Tatlow


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