Progress with Slattocks Junction

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iak
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby iak » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:39 pm

Very nice :thumb
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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:14 pm

Hi Keith

I take it that this is on the Rochdale Canal


Yes it is. The inspiration came from this view which shows the bridge carrying the railway over the canal. In the background can be seen the bottom gates of one of the Slattocks locks

DSCF3111.JPG


Regards

Tony

ralphrobertson
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby ralphrobertson » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:02 pm

Well it has been quite some time since we last posted here and there was a little comment on the Alpha Mill thread about us giving an update so here are a couple of photos I took last night showing the houses I am currently working on in their position.

20190205_192817.jpg


The building in the top corner on the bridge will be the station building - there is a station off scene here. There is a factory on the right which has yet to be finalised. The building between the 2 terraced houses is an old school which has been converted into a small industrial unit and is the next building to be put into the laser cutter once I have drawn it up.

20190205_192741.jpg


Ralph

Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:37 pm

Just rounding off the discussion about the canal bridge which has now been finished off with additional copings and painted. It even has the correct circular newels at the end of the wing walls, which will be a lot more visible on the model than they are on the weed infested prototype. Below is a shot of the bridge with Slattocks Top Lock lock gates seen through the arch. (Sorry you can't see the end of the wing walls - they'll look better when they are not hanging in mid air with nothing supporting them!!
DSC09922A.jpg
The canal bridge with an express speeding past heading towards Manchester


We've had a couple of excellent running sessions recently. More pics to follow but I'll put these in a separate post.

Tony
Last edited by Tony W on Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:52 pm

The picture below also appears on Ralphs thread on Alpha Mill. This shows the Mill and Engine House in their correct location on the layout and gives a better idea of their scale on the layout. The photo was taken at last Saturdays running session to celebrate the Manchester Society's 94th birthday.....and before we get any wise cracks, Slattocks Junction was NOT one of the first layouts to be started by the MMRS!! :D

DSC09923A.jpg


Tony
Last edited by Tony W on Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:52 pm

Yesterday, 21/3/19, the Manchester Group played host to a visit by the Fylde and Nottingham Area Groups. This meeting really started out as an invite to a few people to see Alpha Mill on Slattocks Junction but was quickly extended (for further information on this please see Ralph's thread on Alpha Mill in 'Scenery and Structures - Other Buildings and Scenery'.

A great day was had by all and I'd really like to thank those people who brought stock to run on Slattocks - its always great to see other models running on the layout and it gives us a better idea of how much we have to build to achieve authentic looking trains!!

DSC09931A.jpg
DSC09932A.jpg
DSC09936A.jpg
DSC09937A.jpg


Moving swiftly on from the rogues gallery - a few pictures of stock

DSC09933A.jpg
DSC09935A.jpg
DSC09938A.jpg
You dont often see two Caprotti Black 5's side by side!!
DSC09945A.jpg
A proper Newton Heath engine pulling the Newcastle - Liverpool express


The videos will follow in a separate post

Tony

triumph3
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby triumph3 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:38 pm

Tony, thanks for a great day yesterday, next time I will bring more stock and locomotives. Ralfs Alpha mill is a real work of art and immediately sets the location as Manchester. I know the layout has taken a long time, but the result is excellent and the track work is excellent.
It was good to see so many familiar faces and to talk matters P4.

David Clarke (NAG)

Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:47 pm

Three clips from yesterdays event as promised





As always, apologies for the quality. I might even start using a proper video camera as the layout progresses!!
That's all for now.

Tony

ralphrobertson
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby ralphrobertson » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:59 pm

Looks great Tony. Love the Jubilee on the express.

Ralph

Dave Holt
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Dave Holt » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:22 pm

Really enjoyed the visit and the chance to run some locos. Thanks to all involved.
The mill looks even better in real life than in Ralph's photos and is a marvelous and evocative backdrop helping set the scene firmly in the Greater Manchester area.
Wonderful day out and a great layout in the making.
Dave.

Philip Hall
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:48 pm

The quality is pretty good, Tony, no need to worry. The ‘solid’ feel of trains upon track is quite marked compared to some videos of main line trains on 00 layouts which I have seen recently.

Philip

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BryanJohnson
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby BryanJohnson » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:10 pm

As one of the visitors who was able to test wagons and coaches on Slattocks, I was very grateful for the opportunity. I was able to identify a few minor issues to resolve which my test track at home wouldn't show.
The hospitality was excellent; everyone was free to get on with whatever they wanted: view layouts, read in the library, run trains, drink tea or just natter.
Bryan

ralphrobertson
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby ralphrobertson » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:00 pm

Conscious of the fact that no-one from the group has posted on here since our get together with our neighbour S4 groups last March so thought it time to give everyone a brief update. Work has been busy on 2 of the baseboards in an attempt to get something presentable at Scalefour North in March - which is rapidly approaching. At one end Tony has been beavering away working on the tunnels and their approaches and at the other another group has been working on planning for the townscape area with some buildings now coming to fruition. Also work has started on the goods yard with large areas of setts being laid. Much of this work has been produced on our laser cutter and the addition of a Photon Anycubic 3D printer has opened up more opportunities allowing lots of nice detail work to be made using it.

Here is a photo of the 'town' end of the layout showing the goods yard and the mill.

20191112_190931.jpg


I have been making another row of terraced houses to be positioned adjacent to the engine house of the mill at the back of the layout. This row has been made using the techniques described before on the Alpha Mill thread and I decided to include the wooden guttering which I have made on the Anycubic 3D printer to great success. To me they look slightly overscale right now but once the roof is finished and they are painted I hope they will come out right - time will tell.

20191218_153622(0).jpg

20191218_153632.jpg


Finally a photo with some trains, we do run them when we get chance which lately hasn't been that often.

20191112_211527_001.jpg


Ralph

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iak
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby iak » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:21 pm

Now then, rather splendid looking Ralph.
Wakefield beckons..... :thumb
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


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Dave Holt
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:22 pm

Ralph,
That mill really just blows me away. It looks absolutely superb in situ and the colouring is spot on. Well done, I'm green with envy.
Other progress with the layout also looks good and I look forward to viewing it at S4North (where I'm demoing).
Best wishes to all at MMRS for Christmas & New Year.
Dave.

ralphrobertson
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby ralphrobertson » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:01 am

Thanks Dave, after a long slog making it the mill really does set the scene.

One thing we were discussing at the club last night was about supplying the boiler house with coal and wonder if you or Howard are able to help us out here please. Presuming that the coal would have been supplied by rail it seems logical that the goods yard we have on the layout would be predominantly a coal yard and the other items being transported into the area would be handled in a separate yard on the other side of the station. Looking at various of the photographic books of the area it seems that the coal yards were extensive presumably to supply the vast quantities of coal required to keep these 300 plus mills fired up. It could be that our goods yard is actually too small but we can't change it now!

Have you any information on the quantities of coal that came through these yards and how many trains we should be planning to serve the yard please?

Thanks,

Ralph

JFS
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby JFS » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:08 am

Hello Ralph,

Just to support what Dave said - it is looking superb, and I agree it makes the scene. Well worth your hard work!

Re coal supplies - a mill of this size would have burnt about 60 tons per week when on full load and (depending on the type of yarn) processed between 20 and 40 tons of cotton. But the bad news is that I don't think much of the coal would have been carried by rail. Unlike a railway loco, Lancashire boilers would burn any old rubbish and - with a good firebeater (or mechanical stokers) - not make much smoke in the process. They therefore tended to burn "slack" (small coal typically only about 15mm and below) carted directly from local collieries - the availability of cheap coal being a big driver behind why the mills were built there.

I think the nearest pits would have been Oak in Hollinwood and Woodpark in Bardsley but both of these stopped winding in the late fifties their coal being wound at Bradford (Manchester) thereafter but the Wigan area collieries were winding coal into the eighties. These therefore might have been close enough to supply from the pithead.

Most local railway yards did not have facilities for transhipping coal in bulk and tended to handle only bagged coal for domestic use. Even if Alpha's coal had come from the pithead by rail, I suspect it would have gone via the concentration depot at Chadderton which is only three or four miles away.

Perhaps even worse news is that of the last 4 steam driven mills in Oldham, three were oil-fired!

Sorry I can't be much more constructive!

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Noel
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Noel » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:39 pm

JFS wrote:Most local railway yards did not have facilities for transhipping coal in bulk and tended to handle only bagged coal for domestic use. Even if Alpha's coal had come from the pithead by rail, I suspect it would have gone via the concentration depot at Chadderton which is only three or four miles away.


Coal Concentration Depots were introduced in the late 1950s, but most dated from the early 1960s. Sites with coal drops were, in some cases at least, capable of handling coal in cart loads, rather than sacks, which would have been capable of dealing with small lorries as well. Larger flat yards in industrial areas would be using mechanical grabs and tipper or hopper lorries for deliveries to bulk consumers post-WW2, and sometimes earlier than that. 60 tons per week is about 10 tons a day, equal to about two small lorry loads a day, for 1950s vehicles. By the mid-1950s, if not earlier, 8-wheel tippers were available which could carry that much, and more, direct from the colliery to customer in one trip.

The Clean Air Act of 1956 was the first modern legal attempt to reduce pollution from coal fires and tended to produce a change from coal to coke domestically. Before that every house, virtually, had multiple coal fires [no central heating then] and many smaller industrial sites still used coal as well. In this context the consumption of coal by the cotton mills, which were already in serious decline by then, was not that large a part of overall consumption.
Regards
Noel

JFS
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby JFS » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:53 pm

Noel wrote:Coal Concentration Depots were introduced in the late 1950s, but most dated from the early 1960s. ...


True, but Chadderton opened on 12 August 1914 - albeit less fancily titled a "Coal and Mineral yard" at that time!

Equally, if history has been flexible enough to permit a goods yard at Slattocks, then it could be flexible enough to allow some bulk handling facilities or even a Private Siding - they were few in number at mills, but non non-existent.


Best Wishes,

ralphrobertson
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby ralphrobertson » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:14 pm

Thanks for that Howard, gives us the information we need to better understand how coal was fed to the mill. A domestic coal and general merchandise goods yard it will be then.

Ralph

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Noel
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Noel » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:20 pm

JFS wrote:True, but Chadderton opened on 12 August 1914 - albeit less fancily titled a "Coal and Mineral yard" at that time!


CCDs were on existing yards rebuilt for the purpose, and were designed for bulk mechanical handling. The point was that all other coal yards in the area were closed as part of the changeover, hence 'concentration' in the name. Prior to that, the coal for the mill would most likely just have gone to the nearest yard, to minimise road transport costs. If the nearest yard was Chadderton, then it would probably have been used, if not, probably not.
Regards
Noel

Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:59 pm

Chadderton certainly got its fair share of coal which came over the Pennines, through Rochdale, and through Slattocks to Moston Yard. From here trains were remarshalled and any coal for Chadderton was taken back through Rochdale and round the Oldham loop to Chadderton yard. Empty wagons were taken back round the loop through Rochdale and Slattocks and reassembled at Moston yard for the journey back over the Pennines. Empty coal trains were longer than loaded trains for obvious reasons. By logic this means empty trains were less frequent than loaded trains but I haven't a clue what the ratio was.

It does all mean we won't have enough mineral wagons for a while......not that the fiddle yard on Slattocks has room to accommodate the correct proportion in any case!! :D

Tony

Terry Bendall
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:07 am

JFS wrote:But the bad news is that I don't think much of the coal would have been carried by rail.


There is of course modeller's licence ... . :)

A private siding with a wagon or two, bottom discharge doors or even a tippler. A (working) gate across the private siding. Then a narrow gauge system with tubs pushed by hand into the boiler room. Endless possibilities for lots of fun. :)

Terry Bendall

JFS
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby JFS » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:49 pm

Tony W wrote: ... any coal for Chadderton was taken back through Rochdale and round the Oldham loop to Chadderton yard.


Are you sure about that Tony? Oldham (Werneth) was at the top of the 1:37 and Chadderton was at the bottom - not sure I would fancy working loaded coal trains down there: too great a risk that it would all end up in a pile at Middleton Junction!

But I like Terry's idea best - when I looked at this photo:-

Alpha clipped.jpg
Alpha clipped.jpg (31.11 KiB) Viewed 1129 times


it screamed out at me also!

John Palmer
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby John Palmer » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:11 am

I think I recall having been taken aback by a photograph showing a gradient post on the Werneth Incline marked 1 in 27. An even more compelling reason not to take a loaded train down that particular hill.


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