GWR outside cranks

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

GWR outside cranks

Postby steve howe » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:59 pm

Does anyone know a source of scale thickness outside cranks suitable for GWR locos? I'm looking at developing an Armstrong Goods kit using 1/8" axles.
Steve

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby Craig Warton » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:56 pm

Steve,

I would think the best approach would be to use the Martin Finney cranks which he sells as spares. They use a turned down axle which is available from Ultrascale. Let me know if you are interested in some outsiders buying a kit off you - I have a yearning for and armstrong goods or two.

Regards,

Craig

Philip Hall
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:59 pm

Ultrascale do them, I think, but they may only be available with their wheels. Might be worth giving David Rogers a ring. And of course there's Alan Gibson.

Philip

martin goodall
Posts: 1139
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:20 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby martin goodall » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:42 am

Craig Warton wrote:Steve,

Let me know if you are interested in some outsiders buying a kit off you - I have a yearning for and armstrong goods or two.


Me, too, please. My wish list has included an Armstrong Goods for some years now, but I never got hold of either of the two rather dubious kits for this engine (from Nu-cast or Jidenco/Falcon Brass).

I would also be interested in confirmation of the source of outside cranks (proper brass or steel cranks, not plastic mouldings) and the axles they fit. I need some for another outside-frame GWR engine.

Thanks.

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby Craig Warton » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:11 pm

Me, too, please. My wish list has included an Armstrong Goods for some years now, but I never got hold of either of the two rather dubious kits for this engine (from Nu-cast or Jidenco/Falcon Brass).

I would also be interested in confirmation of the source of outside cranks (proper brass or steel cranks, not plastic mouldings) and the axles they fit. I need some for another outside-frame GWR engine.


Martin,

I had a look at a couple of my Finney kits (currently residing at the top of my model wall of death) and they all appear to have very similar (if not identical) cranks and to me, these look somewhat more aesthetically pleasing than the ones that sit over the end of a 1/8" axle. MF markets a spare etch for outside cranks and I would think this is the same. I have been contemplating using the castings, boiler and a few other bits and pieces from a Finney Dean Goods to use as a basis for an Armstrong Goods - combined with an etch for chassis et al.

In summary, I think the Finney cranks and Ultrascale axles for these cranks are the way to go.

I have seen the prices of the Nu cast kit and the Jidenco one - I am not keen on paying so much for something that I would replace more than 1/2 of.

Now if anybody expresses an interest in doing etches for a straight frame Saint I will be very happy!

Craig W

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby steve howe » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:38 pm

Thanks for the useful info here guys, I have looked at Finney's outside cranks on his price list, they seem very reasonable for the quality product one has come to expect from this maker, I assume the price (£1.00) is per pair. Ultrascale sell shouldered axles especially designed for Finney's cranks, they retail at £2.40 each. This certainly seems the way to go, Finney also produces an inside motion kit (probably the Dean Goods set would be the nearest for the Armstrong) at £19.00

So there we have it, no more excuses!
Steve

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby steve howe » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:01 pm

It seems the Falcon kits have been re-released and top of the list...an Armstrong Goods!

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/catalogue/falcon-gwr

I have no experience of Falcon (ex Jidenco) loco kits, my only encounter was with their 6 wheel Toad many years ago which was a real struggle, due I seem to remember to the etching being very thick brass, and the sides and ends folding up around the floor leaving no edges to solder to. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had recent experience of their loco kits because the list (GWR specifically) looks very comprehensive.

Steve

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby Craig Warton » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:24 pm

Steve,

You can also get (apparently) the ex Nu -Cast kit for the Armstrong Goods (and the Beyer one) from Sherwood Models.

I dont have a clue of the quality or availability of them because I was rather put off by the 158 GBP price!

What is the quality of the ex Ks kit (which I think is the now Nu Cast one) like?

Always been put off the Jidenco one by the comments about them being akin to scratchbuilding. If that is the case then I think you might as well scratchbuild!

regards,

Craig W

User avatar
Mike Garwood
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby Mike Garwood » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:33 am

Bought a Falcon brass GWR 4000 gallon tender for a County that I've built. Very impressed with the quality of the etches, instructions not so good, only a little bit of head scratching to make a really good looking model. As to the thickness of the brass - there were no problems in that dept. In fact I'm going to order a County body to build as I'm not completely happy with the Hornby effort that I've converted...just as soon as I'm liquid again!
This is sitting on a Perserverance chassis. The chassis that came with it was, basic, to say the least. That's dust/fluff you can see on the tender...not weathering!

Mike

P1010006-1.JPG

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby steve howe » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:43 pm

Thats interesting Mike, I suspect Falcon have revamped some if not all the old Jidenco kits. I think I might be tempted to try their Armstrong but possibly ring them first and ask a few questions, particularly about the chassis and its suitability for P4. I have the old K's kit which is pretty basic to say the least and would require a scratchbuilt chassis to use in P4 in any case.
I notice they also do a 32xx 2-4-0 in all its variants.....oh dear, too many things on the waiting list already!
Steve

martin goodall
Posts: 1139
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:20 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby martin goodall » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:45 am

Finney cranks and Ultrascale axles seem to be the right answer to the original question, and so I'll get some.

As regards the Armstrong Goods, I know of at least two P4 models based on the Jidenco/Falcon Brass kit that have been successfully completed (by Martin Finney and by Jim Wharton), although both indicated that there was a fair amount of extra work involved.

My understanding was that there had been supply problems with Falcon Brass kits in recent years due to the ill health of the proprietor. Do I gather from Mike Garwood's post that Falcon Brass kits are back in full production and freely available? If so, I might stil consider buying their Armstrong Goods kit.

As regards "32XX" 2-4-0s, I am not sure which classes Steve Howe was referring to, but Martin Finney does kits for both the 3201 (Stella) Class and the 3232 Class. These would be a far better bet than any Falcon Brass version of these locos, I would think. [Did Jidenco/Falcon Brass ever do a kit for the 3226 Class - is that what Steve had in mind?] (N.B. The classes mentioned above were each very different in appearance, and in wheel sizes, etc. and were not part of a group of classes, so it is slightly misleading to refer to "32XX" Classes, especially as that number series also included Duke and Earl class 4-4-0s.)

martin goodall
Posts: 1139
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:20 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby martin goodall » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:54 am

Something I forgot to add to my last note (just to throw another pebble in the pond).

One of the problems of building an Armstrong Goods is deciding which tender to put behind it. The loco I want to build is No.1203, in final condition during its allocation to Oxford shed from about 8/21 until withdrawal w.e.f. 8/25. Tenders of 2,500 gallon capacity (or slightly below) were fitted, but these could be one of three varieties. (1) Sandwich-framed Gooch-style tenders, with coal fenders in this period. Fig M20 (opp p.M9) in RCTS Pt 12. (Springs mounted above the running boards, but distinguishable from the iron-framed tenders [below] by having pierced holes in the frames.) Wheels 4’0” dia, wheelbase originally 6’0” + 6’0”, but after rebuilding [at Wolverhampton] the quoted wheelbase was 6’2” + 6’10”. See also GWSG Pannier No.17, p.4 (Dwg 1) plus the text on that page. See also photos on pages 18 and 20 of that article. (2) Iron-framed tenders (Springs mounted above the running boards, as on the sandwich-framed tenders [above], but without any holes piercing the frames.) Wheels presumably 4’0” dia. Wheelbase unknown. (3) Dean 2,500 gallon tenders of the ‘standard’ type. Examples of all three of these tender types could have run behind these engines up to and beyond the date on which No. 1203 was withdrawn. Ideally, I would need to see the loco record card for No.1203 to determine what tender was actually running behind it in the period in question.

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby Craig Warton » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:17 pm

I think that the Falcon kit that Steve meant to refer to was the 3521 - I could not see a Stella or 3232 listed on their site. I also happen to have a Finney Stella and 2 x 3232's and would agree they are very nice kits. I have one of the 3232 class in progress and it looks good. All I have to do is finish it!

I sent an email enquiring about Falcon and they are apparently back in production albeit with a 4-6 month delivery schedule.

My only information on Falcon kits is what I have read, as I have never knowingly seen one built up - (with the exception of a 4000 Gallon tender) but I must admit that as a result of what I have heard I am not rushing to spend money.

David Geen is working a a 3521 class. When I last pleaded with him to finish it he said the artwork was done, but pattern work needed to be completed and other items with greater sales potential have a higher priority. I am not sure how anybody could want anything more than a 3521 (apart from an Armstrong Goods and a Straight frame Saint!) but that may be my bias.

Martin, do you have access to either of the Armstrong Goods you mentioned to post some photographs at all?

Regards,

Craig Warton

martin goodall
Posts: 1139
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:20 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby martin goodall » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:15 pm

I don't think Jim Wheaton's (not Wharton - a senior moment on my part, I fear!) model has been photographed. It may possibly be seen performing on the Farnham club's forthcoming P4 layout "Brixcombe" which I believe is due to make its first exhibition appearance some time within the next year.

A photo of Martin Finney's model (No. 1111) appeared in S4 News No. 99 on page 1. It was a regular performer on "Winchester Chesil". The model has a sandwich-framed tender. I made brief notes of this model in July and September 1987, noting that it had a ‘butchered’ RG1624 motor/gearbox, with the motor well forward in the boiler. The boiler and smokebox are separate from the firebox, and they slide off the 1624 motor. This model has split frames.

User avatar
Mike Garwood
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby Mike Garwood » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:08 pm

Do I gather from Mike Garwood's post that Falcon Brass kits are back in full production and freely available? If so, I might stil consider buying their Armstrong Goods kit.

As I understand it, the gentlemen concerned is back in production. However a phone call will tell you the waiting time for the kit that you require...don't expect miracles!

regards

Mike

martin goodall
Posts: 1139
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:20 pm

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby martin goodall » Tue May 11, 2010 9:43 am

Further to previous exchanges under this heading regarding the Armstrong Goods, a litle bird tells me that a certain manufacturer of etched loco kits who has not previously had an Armstrong Goods on his list "now has this loco on his drawing board". Said kit manufacturer does not wish to be identified at present, and says that this kit will be preceded by another kit (non-GWR), so no indication yet as to a release date for the Armstrong Goods. Could be a year away?

Please don't speculate as to the identity of the manufacturer in question (you will probably guess wrong anyway). But if we are all patient, we may yet get our hands on a newly released Armstrong Goods kit in the not-too-distant future. Although, of course, there is always the possibility that the project will not 'come off', so don't blame me if the kit never actually appears.

That still leaves the problem as to which tender it will have with it - perm any one from three (as mentioned in a previous post on this thread).

User avatar
Horsetan
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:24 am

Re: GWR outside cranks

Postby Horsetan » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:02 am

Mike Garwood wrote:Bought a Falcon brass GWR 4000 gallon tender for a County that I've built. Very impressed with the quality of the etches, instructions not so good, only a little bit of head scratching to make a really good looking model. As to the thickness of the brass - there were no problems in that dept. In fact I'm going to order a County body to build as I'm not completely happy with the Hornby effort that I've converted...just as soon as I'm liquid again!
This is sitting on a Perserverance chassis. The chassis that came with it was, basic, to say the least. That's dust/fluff you can see on the tender...not weathering!....


That's lovely.

I've got the same kit, but am in the process of cutting it down the middle so that it comes out at 8ft wide (for a Modified Hall), rather than 8'6" (for a "County")
That would be an ecumenical matter.


Return to “Chassis and Suspensions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests