GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

RAO
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GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby RAO » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:57 am

I'm looking for photos of GWR AA5 Ballast Brake Van in BR days.
There is one in in John Lewis's article "The Common Toad" which appeared in Scale Trains 1983 part Part 3 page 112 no. 40912 [Pendon Museum] sadly they are closed at the moment so I've drawn a blank there.
Also in Ivo Peters book Somerset and Dorset in the Fifties Volume 2 photo 163 dated 5th January 1958. no unknown but I think it could be 60760!
Thanks for your help.

DaveHarris
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby DaveHarris » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:06 pm

There are also 2 pictures of AA5 Toads in J H Russell's 'A Pictorial Record of Great Western Wagons'. Both pictures are taken in very early BR days. The one on page 127 is 40912, it provides a good indication of the state of these Vans towards the end of their lives. The picture on page 128 is a very good, almost 3/4 view of DW40379, marked 'EW' 'Return to Yate'. Both vans have had their veranda enclosed. Hope this helps?

Paul Hutfield
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby Paul Hutfield » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:57 pm

RAO,

Thanks for your post.

Out of interest, what makes you believe that the AA5 photographed by Ivo Peters is 60760? This is a train that i'm modelling with a few Rumney Model's/Gordon Ashton P22 hoppers already in the pipeline.

Dave, thank you for the J H Russell reference. I've managed to establish that the S&D ballast trains, certainly circa 1957-1959 originated from Tytherington. So the AA5 used was most likely one allocated to Yate. I'd be interested to know how many were made and likelyhood of them moving around once allocated. I'd imagine that they probably remained allocated to the same locations for the majority of their lives, bar perhaps a bit of movement when any significant mechanical work was required, perhaps leading to a bit of a reshuffle depending on working commitments?

Many Thanks

Paul

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steamraiser
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby steamraiser » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:58 am

According to Atkins Beard and Tourett fourteen AA5 Toad and Toad A were built between 1893 and 1901.

DaveHarris
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby DaveHarris » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:16 am

Paul,

The AA5 vans were allocated as follows:

40370 Hollingswood 8/03, condemned 11/57
40371 Maindee Junc 10/28 condemned unknown
St Phillips Marsh 3/39 condemned unknown
40372 Aberdeeg date unknown condemned 11/57
40373 Aberdeeg date unknown condemned 7/56
40374 Dulcote Quarry 1/25 condemned unknown
40375 Uynchys(BR) ? condemned 12/55
40376 St Phillips Marsh date unknown condemned unknown
40377 No use or condemmed dates known
40378 Plymouth Division date unknown condemned 10/57
40379 - 81 No records available
40384 - 5 No records available
40912 - 7 Only record is for 40912 'return to coleford(BR) condemned unknown
60760 Newton Abbot 7/22, Return to Menhiot 8/41, Tavistock 8/43,return to Westbury 1/53 condemned unknown
60761 Return to Tavistock 8/43 condemned unknown
Yes, they tended to stay within the area they were allocated to, and as they were for PW work, not a lot of need to migrate elsewhere, and of course their work was increasingly taken over by BRs Shark brake vans from 1951 onwards.

Hope this helps!? ;)

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Noel
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby Noel » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:49 am

There was at least one LMS design Oyster built by BR in 1950 and apparently allocated to the WR, but branded "Return to Yate" - Eric Gent 'BR Brake Vans & Ballast Ploughs' p69 - DB993706
Regards
Noel

Paul Hutfield
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby Paul Hutfield » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:29 pm

Thanks chaps for your responses, most appreciated!

Gordon,

I didn’t appreciate how early these builds were! Interesting to see that some were still being used after circa 60 years service!

Dave,

That’s a very useful list!

I note from your earlier message that 40379 is photographed in the Russell book. However your allocations list doesn’t have any records for the same vehicle. I’d assume it highly possible that this vehicle remained at Yate and quite possibly was also the subject of Ivo Peter’s photo’s in 1958 and 1959.

For those who don’t have access to the books, here’s a couple of photo’s taken of the relevant pages with my phone camera.

ED718EF5-A58B-4977-8CBB-2DD6328BB964.jpeg


79A5042A-2FA0-44BA-8AE4-CA00D1A85CAB.jpeg


RAO,

Still interested on your thoughts about 60760. Looking at Dave’s records it would seem completely feasible that this vehicle could have found its way from Westbury up to Yate towards the end of its life!

Noel,

Very useful info about the Oyster. I suspect the vehicle you reference could well be the one captured in this photo.

AB6D5074-8239-4A9F-A263-2DFEAB7D4E4B.jpeg


All photo’s are those of Ivo Peters taken from The Somerset and Dorset in the fifties, Volume Two. I hope these photo’s are allowable in the context of the thread.

Many thanks

Paul

RAO
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby RAO » Thu May 07, 2020 1:25 pm

Thank you all for your comments.

Having done a lot more research I have come up with the attached schedule.

Also a conclusion as to the GWR AA5 Ballast Brake Plough Brake Van photographed in Ivo Peters S&D Vol 2 photo 163.
I think that it is DW40384 from Lot 181. It has a rain strip over what was originally the verandah and not full length as DW40379 which is pictured in J H Russell's book.

If any member has additional information I will add it to the schedule.

So I'm currently started building this AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van from an old basic Jidenco AA6 kit and using a Brian Morgan underframe WN4570. Watch this space!!!

download/file.php?mode=view&id=23804
Attachments
AA5 & AA10 Schedule.pdf
(200.36 KiB) Downloaded 46 times

RAO
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby RAO » Tue May 12, 2020 8:11 pm

I've made minor corrections and amendments to the schedule.
AA5 & AA10 Schedule rev 1.pdf
(210.61 KiB) Downloaded 25 times


But the GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brakevan is in the attached photo.
GWR Toad Ballast Plough Brake Van 5-1-1958.jpg
GWR Toad Ballast Plough Brake Van 5-1-1958.jpg (104.73 KiB) Viewed 714 times


I've also added another photo of Herrings being moved by a tractor at Tytherington Quarry as in the photo above!
Herrings at Tytherington Quarry 1967.jpg

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Noel
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby Noel » Wed May 13, 2020 11:37 am

"Empty to" seems rather unlikely for a vehicle which is not capable of carrying a load, and does not belong to the Traffic department. "Llynchys" should read "Llynclys".
Regards
Noel

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steamraiser
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby steamraiser » Wed May 13, 2020 5:42 pm

I have seen pictures of some P22 (Herrings) branded "Return empty to Coleford" for the quarry there.

Gordon A

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Noel
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Re: GWR AA5 Ballast Plough Brake Van

Postby Noel » Wed May 13, 2020 7:16 pm

steamraiser wrote:I have seen pictures of some P22 (Herrings) branded "Return empty to Coleford" for the quarry there


Seems reasonable, Gordon. I was questioning the entries in the AA5 and AA10 brake van schedule; I should have been clearer.
Regards
Noel


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