Motors for locos

bordercollie
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Motors for locos

Postby bordercollie » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:05 am

Hi

What are suitable Mashima motors for a GWR 43xx and 44xx/45xx Locos so I can keep a look out on ebay

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Mike Garwood » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:41 am

Just ring Chris at High Level and he will be able to sort you out, without the faff of going into a bidding war. No connection other than a perfectly happy customer. 0191 388 2112 (09.00 - 17.00 GMT if possible)

Mike

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Horsetan
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Horsetan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:36 pm

Mike Garwood wrote:Just ring Chris at High Level and he will be able to sort you out, without the faff of going into a bidding war. No connection other than a perfectly happy customer. 0191 388 2112 (09.00 - 17.00 GMT if possible)...


...or see price list for his current range of motors. Mashima motors are no longer in production, so any listed will be the last of the stock.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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David Thorpe
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby David Thorpe » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:56 pm

There's fairly lengthy thread on RMWeb about suitable replacements for Mashimas - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... r-mashima/ . Some really rather cheap Chinese motors have been getting some surprisingly good reviews.

DT

bordercollie
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby bordercollie » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:28 am

Thanks Mike

I e-mailed High Level. I am in Australia so phoning is hard.

I havn't received a reply as yet. Another question I have is are the larger 16xx motors feasible for the larger 4mm Locos. I thinking here of Castle, Hall and 28xx or are they to big?

Philip Hall
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:35 am

16mm should be fine for big engines like these. Certainly 1616 and 1624 Portescap RG4s would fit.

Philip

PhilipT
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby PhilipT » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:10 am

If you want the motor to fit between the lower sides of a narrow firebox such as a Castle then aren't the 16XX motors problematic?

davebradwell
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby davebradwell » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:31 am

Stick it in the tender then.

DaveB

David Catton
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby David Catton » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:30 am

You could even take a look at viewtopic.php?f=137&t=6702. Scroll down to the last entry and open the spreadsheet. There's a sheet on motors of various sizes and links to their sources where you should be able to find details of their performance.

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Mike Garwood » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:27 pm

I've heard good things about the 14 series of motors. Given their capacity, I wouldn't be afraid to use them in a large engine. On my shelf of shame sits a 42xx, this has a HL g/bx with a motor from here:

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/

You can read about these motors on the website. Just another one to consider before plunging in.

Mike

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:26 pm

A search on Ebay for 12 volt micro motors turns up quite a selection such as this which is proving quite popular with the RMwebbers;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-6v-12v-H ... Swiehc0y4f

t is important to note that many of the motors advertised are originally designed for other applications, robotics, car locking systems and ac/heater controls, etc. and may not perform in the same way that more specific model railway motors that we are used to. They are usually 3 pole and some have no end tapped mounting screw holes. I have several to try out, but having managed to source almost enough Mashimas for the small stash of kits I have, haven't got around to using any yet.

Philip Hall
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:13 pm

I have checked with a friend who has a Hall and a Castle built by John Hayes, and he has confirmed that these both have RG4s fitted with the 16mm motor. So there is room in the firebox.

Philip

Edward45
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Edward45 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:55 pm

From ebay over the years I have purchased - at very low prices - motors that appear in Hornby locos. A prime example is the five pole motor used in the J15 and I also believe the J50. The D16 has one type of three pole Mabuchi motor whilst the P2 and others have a larger Mabuchi equipped with a fly wheel. It may be a fact that some types have metallic brushes that were originally designed for one direction rotation, however they would appear to perform satisfactorily in the none designed direction. From what I can make out High Level are now marketing 12v N20 and N30 motors with a 1mm shaft.

bordercollie
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby bordercollie » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:16 am

[quote="Philip Hall"]
16mm should be fine for big engines like these. Certainly 1616 and 1624 Portescap RG4s would fit.

I have an Portescap RG4. I am not sure which one it is it is only identified by a reds "M" on the box. However its dimensions seem to be lot smaller than the Mashima 1624.

[ quote "Mike Garwood"]I've heard good things about the 14 series of motors. Given their capacity, I wouldn't be afraid to use them in a large engine. On my shelf of shame sits a 42xx, this has a HL g/bx with a motor from here.

I checked out the website and maximum power seems to a lot less than Mashima 1424 or 1428.

Edward45
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Edward45 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:55 am

For motors possibly suitable for our applications search Micro electric motors on ebay. I believe the series 14 motors are Mitsumi motors with prices in the range of £1.60 to £1.80 for two. Mabuchi FF-050 series - be careful with rated voltage - are same depth and width as the Mitsumi but about 26mm long. There are some interesting five pole motors similar in width and depth to the Mabuchi at 33mm long. Whilst conceding that uniting motors with suitable gears/gearbox may require need some innovation, they can be used. Check Michael Edge's various posting on RMWeb.

bordercollie
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby bordercollie » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:39 am

Thanks. I was looking at the wrong one. I was looking at m15n-3. I can see the 14 series has much greater power but at a higher rpm. My worry is that the 14 series is only designed to go counterclockwise where as the smaller motor is designed for clockwise/counterclock wise rotation. I have no idea if having been designed to only run CCW is important. The power of the 3 series only matches the Mashima 1015. The shaft length can be customised on the 14 series. Would this need to specified when purchasing I wonder.
Does anyone with electric motor knowledge have any answers?

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Horsetan
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Horsetan » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:34 am

bordercollie wrote:
Philip Hall wrote:16mm should be fine for big engines like these. Certainly 1616 and 1624 Portescap RG4s would fit.


I have an Portescap RG4. I am not sure which one it is it is only identified by a reds "M" on the box. However its dimensions seem to be lot smaller than the Mashima 1624.


The RG4 "M" is the large one, so that would be a 1624. It is also possible to swap for other sizes or even other manufacturers, e.g. swapping an Escap for a Faulhaber, or even a Maxon. Fixing centres are the same so all you're doing is moving the initial bevel gear onto the shaft of the replacement motor.

Maxons are particularly strong.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Stuart Firth
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Re: Motors for locos

Postby Stuart Firth » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:57 pm

The Minebea 15mm square can motors look promising. They are 6 pole with a 2mm shaft and feel very powerful, only revving at 6,500 rpm. I have 4 of these, bought for peanuts. I have to admit I haven't used any yet as I mostly build smaller stuff. If the holes don't line up they could easily be soldered in place as with the Mitsumi M15N.


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