Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:46 am

Hi Julian.
No mods to the combination levers. This loco had the fluted straight(ish) type. The main mods are the valve spindle cross heads, which I found on some spare cast brass sprues and the expansion links to which I've attached the spacing washers intended for the support frame. This is because I'm using a piece of 0.9 mm brass wire fixed pivot pin instead of rivets fixed to the links, as intended in the kit.
Of course, my revised arrangement will prevent the valve gear being reversible, but I can live with that loss!
I've accepted an invite to demonstrate at S4North but haven't heard anything since, so I hope I'm still involved. Assuming I am, the loco will be there.
Dave.

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Flymo748
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:54 am

Dave Holt wrote:I've accepted an invite to demonstrate at S4North but haven't heard anything since, so I hope I'm still involved. Assuming I am, the loco will be there.
Dave.


Dave,

Looking at the last (January) Scalefour North report to the Committee, you're on the roster :thumb

Better pack, screwdriver, soldering iron, and a pack of of Polo mints. And a gonk. And a spare gonk.

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:16 pm

Hurrah! The valve gear is complete and fitted on both sides. Not that it didn't put up a bit of a fight but I've beaten it into submission (for now).
Despite the usual precautions of cigarette paper washers, dabs of oil, etc., I still managed to solder on of the expansion links solid in it's frame and wreck one of the union links. The expansion link required removal, cleaning up, re-fixing the spacer washers (one has ended up being loose in the reassembly) before re-assembly. Fortunately, I had success second time round.
The union link soldered up solid to the drop link, despite a layer of oiled cigarette paper. Unfortunately, getting the pin out resulted in the link delaminating and I eventually snapped one of the eyes off one end of one layer whilst trying to remove the remaining bits of pin. As one of the links was already made up from some spare etches I found, after an earlier disaster, there was no replacement part available. As a result, that link is now only the outer layer and no forked joints. I've used brass lace makers pins inserted from the back during the second attempt at assembly. I don't think this arrangement is too obvious on the assembled gear but, obviously, that union link is now rather delicate. I hope it doesn't give trouble in service, otherwise it'll have to be an appeal to see if anyone has some spare etches for the short, forked type links.
Here's the assemble gear mounted to the chassis.
BM_Blk5_45284_042.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_041.JPG

And as far as it's got.
BM_Blk5_45284_043.JPG

On with the cosmetic stuff now.

Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:11 pm

The past few days have seen progress with fitting the external sand boxes and sand pipes to the rear of the centre driving wheels, including support brackets for the sand pipes.
The piping under the cab and running plate on the fireman's side and the damper operating gear have also been completed.
The piping presents a problem in deciding where to make the split between the parts under the cab, which are fixed to the chassis and the parts under the running plate, which are part of the body. Of course, the real thing doesn't have this issue. Furthermore, real piping is split into handleable sections joined by bolted flanges or union fittings. We don't have that facility (or at least I don't).
First, as side view. I notice that the sand pipes just fitted end higher off the rails than the previous ones. I hadn't realised till I looked at the photo. They have been adjusted to match, now.
BM_Blk5_45284_044.JPG

And a couple of closer shots (with the loco up-side-down).
BM_Blk5_45284_045.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_046.JPG


The driver's side beckons, but the piping will have to wait till the rear steps are fitted and the live steam injector. Unfortunately, the W/M casting provided in the kit, whist being a good representation of the type fitted by the LMS, it is the wrong hand, so a home made effort in brass is called for. I made one for my Caprotti Black 5 (for the same reason) and found it not too difficult. Still, an unwelcome bit of extra work.

Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:49 pm

The live steam injector has been created from various diameters of brass tube and wire and some 16 BA washers. Amazingly, I managed to assemble the whole thing with high melt flux cored solder without any bits moving or falling off. The injector was than mounted on the back of the etched footstep assembly and fixed to the loco chassis. Stays back to the frames and some further pipework are required to finish this part of the model.
Injector body with overflow and steam pipes.
BM_Blk5_45284_047.JPG

Attached to the footsteps.
BM_Blk5_45284_048.JPG
BM_Blk5_45284_048.JPG (202.44 KiB) Viewed 1159 times

BM_Blk5_45284_049.JPG
BM_Blk5_45284_049.JPG (109.22 KiB) Viewed 1159 times

After fitting the steps to the chassis. The other end of the steam supply pipe is soldered to the underside of a frame stretcher.
BM_Blk5_45284_050.JPG

The two remaining connections are for the water feed (upper flange but nearer bottom of photo) and the delivery pipe.

Dave.

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barrowroad
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby barrowroad » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:10 pm

Great work Dave.

Robin

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:26 pm

Thanks Robin.
It does seem rather a lot of effort when the whole thing is almost hidden from view behind the footstep. The most visible bit is the overflow pipe, so it's ironic that that's one of the aspects that the Brassmasters casting has the other way round - exiting at the back instead of the front of the injector.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:10 pm

The remaining pipework has been added to the live steam injector and a start made on the vacuum train pipe under the driver's side running plate and cab. Although guided by the pipe and rod diagram for the full size loco, I find that bending brass wire in three planes is a process of trial and error until an acceptable geometry is achieved. Again, part of the piping is attached to the chassis and part to the body.
BM_Blk5_45284_051.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_052.JPG

I notice that at some stage, due presumably to rough handling, I've managed to break off the overflow connection from the W/M cast exhaust injector. Another bit of additional work required.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:55 pm

Vacuum pipe now completed. Another squiggly bit of 0.8 mm brass wire, plus a few other bits and bobs.
BM_Blk5_45284_053.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_054.JPG

Dave.

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Serjt-Dave » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:44 pm

Very neat and tidy Dave. Well done.

Dave

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45609
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby 45609 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:48 pm

All looks great Dave. Out of interest do you anneal the brass wire to make it easier to form the pipe routing? The other method I employ is it to use copper wire. It makes forming easier but is not always available in as wide a range of sizes as brass. I recycle household twin and earth by stripping the insulation off short off cuts to get at the copper conductor. I also have a few cards of tinned copper fuse wire (5, 15 and 30 amp). The benefit of still having an old fashioned hardware store in town along with it's rather elderly proprietor.

Cheers...Morgan

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:32 pm

I don't anneal the brass wire so it is quite hard to bend, either to small radii or very near to the end. I've stuck with brass because it is available in a wide range of suitable diameters and I try to replicate the different pipe diameters used on the prototype. Although copper, or perhaps annealed brass, is easier to bend, how does it do on the straight sections of pipe in terms of remaining straight during handling?
Dave.

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45609
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby 45609 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:45 pm

A good point Dave. Selective annealing a length of brass wire with a candle flame is a way round the problem but you have to be very quick with wires of small diameter. Also I try to put in the pipe supports like you would see on the prototype whenever possible. The obvious example being an ejector pipe along the boiler. Of course sometimes a bit of "pipe" sag is desirable. If I recall this is a bit of 15 amp fuse wire with a double turn of 5 amp wire to make the brackets on each boiler band. This is a situation IMHO where "dead straight" would look slightly odd.

sagging pipe.png
sagging pipe.png (358.49 KiB) Viewed 852 times


cheers...Morgan

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:03 pm

Good point. The lubricator pipes along the boiler on some WD 2-8-0's is a classic example.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:06 am

Well, I've now completed as much of the under cab pipework as I intend to do. There are a couple of small bore pipes I haven't done - steam brake supply to the tender and, possibly, the tender coal spray, but there's enough to create the impression of several hose connections to fill the gap between loco and tender.
Here's the final arrangement in rather cruel enlargement.
BM_Blk5_45284_055.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_056.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_057.JPG

Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:54 pm

So much for my resolve not to add any more under-cab piping! It didn't take long to realize I couldn't leave off the steam brake supply for the tender. It's fairly small bore stuff (0.4 mm on the model) but exits the back of the loco at a much lower level than all the other pipes/hoses, so has a somewhat different profile in the gap between loco and tender.
It is visible in the photo, close to the brake crank support brackets and is fixed to one by a small bracket.
BM_Blk5_45284_058.JPG

That's actually not the last pipework needed on the chassis as part of the train heat pipe is visible outside the frames where it passes from below the front buffer beam up through the triangular brackets behind the buffer an the fireman's side.
The chassis is now very nearly complete but I am going to have to remake the pick-ups for the front drivers as the position where the current (!) ones pass over the top of the frames exactly coincides with the front sand box filler pipes. Humph.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:55 pm

The bit of train heating pipe mentioned previously has been made and fitted to the chassis, as have the front steps. As etched, the steps are a continuous, single piece going right across the chassis. However, experience with my previous Brassmasters Black 5 shows that the steps need moving outwards slightly to avoid the front bogie wheels rubbing on the back. This was done by splitting the etch and moving each half out by 0.5mm.
The train heating pipe is visible on its run up from the front running plate to pass over the cylinder, so a suitable length of wire has been bent to shape and, in this case, attached to the footplate unit.
Steps attached to the chassis.
BM_Blk5_45284_059.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_060.JPG

And with the footplate unit in position.
BM_Blk5_45284_061.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_062.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_063.JPG

Still got the replacement front pick-ups to make and fit. Otherwise, the chassis is now complete and ready for painting.
Dave.

triumph3
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby triumph3 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:23 pm

Dave,
looking good.interesting comment about moving the front steps out, did you do this on your Jubilee?
Interesting that the Brassmasters Re built Scot I bought at Scaleforum has the front bogie replaced by a Masokits one to improve running.

David

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:52 pm

David,
Yes, I did move the steps out on the Jubilee, based on the experience with the previous Black 5.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:12 pm

Boiler back head and some cab details fitted.
BM_Blk5_45284_064.JPG

BM_Blk5_45284_065.JPG

Dave.

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:58 pm

Excellent work there Dave. I have a thing about well detailed cab interiors even though you can't really see any of the details once painted and the tender is coupled. But at least you know it's there.

Dave

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:32 pm

Thanks, Dave. As you say, not fully visible but it gives an impression of the backhead when glimpsed through the windows and cab/tender opening.
Although I haven't finished the cab/footplate unit, I've been drawn to doing some preliminary work on the boiler assembly. In the Brassmaster kits, the boiler and firebox are cast in a cream coloured resin and very nicely detailed and finished they are, too. In this kit, the boiler and firebox castings are separate, with the front of the firebox having a cylindrical extension which located the rear end of the boiler. Unfortunately, the fit was rather loose, to the extent that the two items were not effectively aligned. The gap was taken up by superglueing two layers of writing paper on the locating part which resulted in a nice push fit.
The instructions suggest assembling the two parts in situ on the running plate to ensure correct orientation. However, I decided to use a simple jig, consisting of three lengths of square plastic to allow assembly on the bench. Prior to fixing the two parts with a thick grade superglue, I drilled a series of closely spaced holes to enable sections of the solid firebox front and bottom of the boiler to be broken out to clear the gearbox. Just hope I've judged this right or there's going to be an awful lot of extra cutting and gouging, later!
Boiler (upside down) and firebox showing the paper layers and rows of holes, together with pencil cutting lines.
BM_Blk5_45284_066.JPG

Two parts plugged together (loose) on the simple jig.
BM_Blk5_45284_067.JPG

They've been glued now.
Dave.

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Serjt-Dave » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:44 am

Looking good David. I can remember the Jubilee having a similar issue but I can't remember the Black 5 which I built many years ago having the same problem. This will be duly noted for when I get round to doing my ones. What I did for the Jubilee was to use a filler, squeezed together and anything oozed out was cleaned up. I think also the the boiler was a tadge wider then the firebox creating a slight lip. I remember being nervous about cutting, filing and even touch the resin parts. This was a new material back then. LOL.

Keep up the good work there David.

Dave

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby Dave Holt » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:19 pm

Well, the breaking out of the slot for the gearbox went to plan, I'm glad to say. Quite a bit of very messy sawing to get to this stage.
BM_Blk5_45284_068.JPG

Boiler unit just loosely placed at present. A bit more work required on the sand pipe plates to let it fully seat on the running plate.
Dave.

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barrowroad
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Re: Brassmasters Blk5 45232

Postby barrowroad » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:08 pm

Very nice Dave, are you bringing it next week?

Robin


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