Electrically operated prototype turntables

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chris_mccarthy
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Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby chris_mccarthy » Mon May 27, 2019 1:03 pm

We are building a well-type turntable model for our group layout where we know that the prototype was electrically powered. No photo or info for that aspect of our prototype has emerged.

Despite looking pretty hard we are surprised that we have not been able to find a photo or info on ANY electrically operated UK prototype turntable (lots of USA pix but they tended to use overhead wiring supports that we don’t think were used in UK).

We want at the least to model the control unit (presumably located on the well wall or on the t/t bridge) and associated elements visually related to it. But any info at all might well give some clues.

So can anyone please help with info or links to drawings, photos etc that show an electrically operated turntable from any UK mainline company or location.

Many thanks,

Chris McCarthy
Chris McCarthy


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Noel
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby Noel » Mon May 27, 2019 1:52 pm

Documentation of GWR 70ft T/T at OOC being demolished https://learninglegacy.crossrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/OldOakCommonWorksitesNon-ListedBuiltHeritageRecordingof70Turntable-2.0.pdf (also courtesy of Google)

Edit - I think Keith's links to photos may well be this T/T as well.
Regards
Noel

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon May 27, 2019 2:04 pm


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chris_mccarthy
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby chris_mccarthy » Tue May 28, 2019 1:16 pm

Many thanks, Keith and Noel.Very helpful. I did Google quite extensively with a range of search strings but for some reason none of these materials came up; strange.

The Crossrail document is a veritable goldmine of info and photos of how the t/t was built and operated. I’ve not seen a better source anywhere.

Thanks again to you both.

Chris
Chris McCarthy

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45609
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby 45609 » Tue May 28, 2019 10:41 pm

Hi Chris,

Cumbria County Council hold an extensive archive of drawings from Cowans Sheldon. There is a 200 plus page list here...

http://85a.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?id=1128

Robin Whittle used this archive a few years ago to obtain a full set of engineering drawings for the turntable at Bristol Barrow Road.

A quick glance through found the OOC information. Here is a screenshot

50F5D1E3-E6E7-44AE-89AB-EA69F7A962CC.png


I’m sure there were a few other electrically operated turntables in the UK. York North (now the NRM) rings a bell but I’m not completely sure.

Cheers...Morgan

Philip Hall
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby Philip Hall » Wed May 29, 2019 12:27 pm

It does seem (at least from the pictures on here) that an overhead gantry, US style, was used for the wiring on such tables. I’m intrigued, though, as to how it might be powered without a gantry. By the way, what’s the prototype location?

Philip

Crepello
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby Crepello » Wed May 29, 2019 12:51 pm

Barrow Hill Roundhouse contains one of these in operational condition if you need one to get up close to.

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chris_mccarthy
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby chris_mccarthy » Wed May 29, 2019 1:05 pm

Hi Phil,

Our “closely based on” prototype, but not intended to be an absolutely exact reproduction, is Ewer Street in Southwark.

This has been said in our pretty extensive searchings over several years to be electric but the very, very limited available photos and narrative comments in various sources make both the electric claim and, if so, what the electrical “gubbins” were, difficult/impossible to evidence at present.

At this moment we’re trying to square the circle on how it was driven, now we know from helpful posts above and elsewhere what a typical electric t/t in UK might look like. This should at least give us some clues on related infrastructure which might help us focus down.

So our request to anyone who may have definitive info on Ewer Street t/t, or even partial photos (we have the well known one with a Schools in wartime) is still open with thanks in anticipation.

Chris
Chris McCarthy

Philip Hall
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby Philip Hall » Wed May 29, 2019 2:37 pm

Chris,

Have you tried Mike Day and the Southwark Bridge group? It’s a bit modern for them but you never know. I don’t think Mike is on here but I could put you in touch if you would like. Email me if so.

Phil

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Noel
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby Noel » Wed May 29, 2019 4:09 pm

The T/T at Ewer Street was installed in 1901, when the use of electricity was very recent, and in many respects still experimental [the first Bankside power station was built in 1891]. Manual operation would have been quite normal, and vacuum operation would have been available if power operation was really needed (which is questionable, I would think, for a 55ft T/T). Also, electric operation would probably have been more expensive, both in installation and running costs, and the SECR was not the most prosperous of concerns, so I do wonder why they would have gone down that route at that time.
Regards
Noel

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed May 29, 2019 4:33 pm

The electric drive may not have been original, could have been added later.

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Noel
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby Noel » Wed May 29, 2019 7:23 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:The electric drive may not have been original, could have been added later.


Indeed, but demand would presumably have dropped greatly with suburban electrification from the 1920s. Charing Cross T/T at Belvedere was tou in 1951, which would have increased usage at Ewer Street to some extent [Cannon Street had its own T/Ts, and locos resident at Bricklayers Arms or visiting between trains would be sent out the right way round for their next train], but the writing was on the wall by then https://www.kentrail.org.uk/charing_cross_4.htm. I don't know one way or the other, but I find it difficult to believe that a case could be made on economic grounds or usage grounds for such a conversion at any period after construction.
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Noel

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:21 pm

"Escape to the Country" (BBC1) this afternoon has just shown the Barrow Hill table in operation, shows the electric controls.

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Hardwicke
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:17 am

Aren't both York and Barrow Hill ( see above) both electric? I'd guess Neville Hill is too.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:25 am

Yoevil Junction is electric too
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Electrically operated prototype turntables

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:32 am

Old Oak Common's table hand and electric, went to Swanage railway at Norden.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".


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