DJ Models 14xx on High Level chassis

david.themulveys
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: DJ Models 14xx on High Level chassis

Postby david.themulveys » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:39 pm

Philip

Yes indeed this is really a labour of love rather than a commercial proposition I would have to accept, although if you did a batch of say 5 the last 4 might be a little quicker; it's the filing under the footplate at the cab end and the fiddling about fitting the chassis that took the time. Otherwise the proven ex-Airfix + detailing kit route as fellow modellers have described above would seem to be rather more predictable.

Steve

Interesting question on what makes locos noisy and therefore how to minimise this - is it vibration conducted to the body or air resonating within a cavity inside the body or something else. In the case of the DJ Models 14xx I had a comment from another club member not familiar with the project that it seemed fairly quiet, although you can definitely hear the motor quite easily. I put a sliver of foam rubber under the back end of the motor to following Chris Gibbons recommendation to consider restraining it a little (otherwise the motor bobs up and down if contact with the track is lost for a moment, the energy taken by this causing the loco to run jerkily). I'm still experimenting with how far to push the foam in (too much and you lose the benefit of the compensation given that the driven axle is floating) but I suspect this has also dampened out some of the noise.

David

Enigma
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Re: DJ Models 14xx on High Level chassis

Postby Enigma » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:30 pm

david.themulveys wrote:Philip

Yes indeed this is really a labour of love rather than a commercial proposition I would have to accept, although if you did a batch of say 5 the last 4 might be a little quicker; it's the filing under the footplate at the cab end and the fiddling about fitting the chassis that took the time. Otherwise the proven ex-Airfix + detailing kit route as fellow modellers have described above would seem to be rather more predictable.

Steve

Interesting question on what makes locos noisy and therefore how to minimise this - is it vibration conducted to the body or air resonating within a cavity inside the body or something else. In the case of the DJ Models 14xx I had a comment from another club member not familiar with the project that it seemed fairly quiet, although you can definitely hear the motor quite easily. I put a sliver of foam rubber under the back end of the motor to following Chris Gibbons recommendation to consider restraining it a little (otherwise the motor bobs up and down if contact with the track is lost for a moment, the energy taken by this causing the loco to run jerkily). I'm still experimenting with how far to push the foam in (too much and you lose the benefit of the compensation given that the driven axle is floating) but I suspect this has also dampened out some of the noise.

David


My Airfix/HL that I've recently completed runs silently but I have lined the tanks with sheet lead and stuffed some up the boiler as well. The motor isn't 'secured' but it does have sliver of foam under the rear. I arranged the rear driver/carrying wheel pickups on an PCB sleeper epoxied across the tops of the sandboxes with the wires bearing on the tops of the wheels and the motor rests on this.

Philip Hall
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: DJ Models 14xx on High Level chassis

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:54 pm

David,

I would have few qualms about a new chassis (although I really wouldn’t want to do five!) I’ve built enough 14xx chassis over the years, mostly Comet, but it was having my doubts about these designs confirmed that was nice, although disappointing. I have seen other chassis to this kind of design and they seem to work OK but the way they are made makes changing the wheels and the like just a nightmare.

It is a shame given the otherwise fidelity of such models; I have become used to being able to hack around the products of Hornby, Bachmann etc. with confidence of success. Then you get a curve ball thrown at you like this one.

A very nice job, by the way...

Philip

david.themulveys
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: DJ Models 14xx on High Level chassis

Postby david.themulveys » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:38 pm

Something has gone wrong with the thread somewhere and the system has started a new one - here's a second attempt. Thanks to Philip and Enigma for your comments

Philip

Yes indeed this is really a labour of love rather than a commercial proposition I would have to accept, although if you did a batch of say 5 the last 4 might be a little quicker; it's the filing under the footplate at the cab end and the fiddling about fitting the chassis that took the time. Otherwise the proven ex-Airfix + detailing kit route as fellow modellers have described above would seem to be rather more predictable.

Steve

Interesting question on what makes locos noisy and therefore how to minimise this - is it vibration conducted to the body or air resonating within a cavity inside the body or something else. In the case of the DJ Models 14xx I had a comment from another club member not familiar with the project that it seemed fairly quiet, although you can definitely hear the motor quite easily. I put a sliver of foam rubber under the back end of the motor to following Chris Gibbons recommendation to consider restraining it a little (otherwise the motor bobs up and down if contact with the track is lost for a moment, the energy taken by this causing the loco to run jerkily). I'm still experimenting with how far to push the foam in (too much and you lose the benefit of the compensation given that the driven axle is floating) but I suspect this has also dampened out some of the noise.

David

david.themulveys
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: DJ Models 14xx on High Level chassis

Postby david.themulveys » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:52 pm

Ok said it was my first post, now found the page 2 button - please ignore the above!

Thanks Enigma good to know not going quietly mad with the sliver of foam approach.

Philip thanks for those comments, haven't tried Comet so don't know but I have to say I'm very happy with the High Level chassis, yes agree it's time consuming to build but that's just because of the detail, it went together very well with no fiddling to make things fit or anything.

David

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Captain Kernow
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Re: DJ Models 14xx on High Level chassis

Postby Captain Kernow » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:52 pm

david.themulveys wrote:Yes indeed this is really a labour of love rather than a commercial proposition I would have to accept, although if you did a batch of say 5 the last 4 might be a little quicker; it's the filing under the footplate at the cab end and the fiddling about fitting the chassis that took the time. Otherwise the proven ex-Airfix + detailing kit route as fellow modellers have described above would seem to be rather more predictable.

What I would say with regard to that point is that when fitting my Perseverence chassis (in OO) to the Hattons/DJM body, I found it a lot easier to file some brass off the top of the frames to get the ride height correct, rather than messing around with the plastic body (although I did my own messing about, for other reasons, as those who have read my RMWeb blogs will know).

I haven't fitted the outside pony truck parts from the Perseverance kit either, I found it simpler to retain the Hattons/DJM part (which is attached to the body rather than the chassis anyway).

Also, if using the High Level chassis kit, you could always consider not fitting their dummy inside motion, as there is a representation of that on the Hattons/DJM body, which I chose to retain (no choice, really, as Perseverance don't give you that option).

Do I read your posts right, David, in that you had more or less completed the High Level chassis, according to the instructions, and thus fitted the pony truck outside frames and the inside motion, before you decided to put the Hattons/DJM body on top?
Tim M
Member of the Devon Riviera Area Group.

david.themulveys
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: DJ Models 14xx on High Level chassis

Postby david.themulveys » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:14 pm

Tim/Captain K

Yes that's correct I followed the instructions and fitted both the pony truck outside frames and the inside motion and got the chassis basically working before deciding to go for the DJ Models body.

Looking at the chassis and the instructions, what you propose should work for the trailing axlebox; apart from not having to take off the DJM sideframes you would only have to file one slot each side of the underneath of the running plate not two which would cut down on the fiddling.

On the High Level chassis the trailing axle runs on inside bearings located in hornblocks in the main frame so you could leave off the outside frames (parts 17 and 18) and of course the axleboxes themselves and it should still work. The kit gives two types of spacer P4 and P4W (for parts 7 and 8) and says that these either position the outside frames at scale width with no sideplay or add 0.5 mm sideplay either side. So as the kit sideframes are quite thin you might want to assess whether you need to file down the back of the DJH sideframes to make sure the rear wheels are free to turn and allow for the sideplay you are looking for. If it all went horribly wrong though plan B would just be to carry on assembling the chassis as per instructions and take off the DJH sideframes. The rear spacer part 8 may be too wide to fit between the DJH sideframes but once you've decided which way you want to go a quick trim should fix that.

On the question of the motion representation yes it would certainly save quite a lot of time on the build; the issue I can foresee is the interaction between the chassis front spacer part 4 and the motion bracket part 5 on the one hand and the DJH motion representation on the other hand. You might perhaps be able to leave out the motion bracket part 5 at some reduction of strength but I found that the front spacer part 4 as supplied is pretty critical to getting the chassis set up correctly. I guess it would be the usual case of offering up the body to the chassis and working out what if anything would have to be filed away from the motion representation, possibly a slot for the front spacer not forgetting that this is inclined to suit the motion. Little bit chicken and egg as if you built the chassis without the motion bracket and wanted to subsequently change your mind you might have to talk to the chassis very nicely to persuade the motion bracket to go in...

So, these could be timesaving improvements which could streamline the process quite a bit - will be interesting to see what you end up deciding to do!

David

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Horsetan
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Re: DJ Models 14xx on High Level chassis

Postby Horsetan » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:14 pm

Slightly OT, but I see DJ Models has gone into receivership.
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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