Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Edward45
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Edward45 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:51 pm

Try "More 4mm Engines" by Guy Williams published by Wild Swan ISBN 1 874103 402.

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Horsetan
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Horsetan » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:52 pm

mikemeg wrote:...Which organisation is it that uses the maxim - 'Fail to plan; plan to fail'?


I prefer Samuel Beckett:

"Ever tried? Ever failed? Then try again. Fail again. Fail better.

Or something like that. :mrgreen:
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Philip Hall
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:52 pm

Mike,

Bachmann do a very nice model, but with a conversion you will come against one of their little foibles, and that is that the driving wheels (and maybe some of the others) are probably undersize - well they are on the LBSCR Atlantic, which has a similar if not identical chassis. This is to keep the wheelbase correct with 00 flanges I guess. So when you put in P4 wheels of the correct size the buffer height goes up, quite a chunk in this case. They did this on the very first ‘modern production style’ engine they made, the N class, and the buffer height went up nearly a millimetre. When I looked at the LBSCR Atlantic I think I found they had increased the wheelbase as well, but I’m not absolutely sure of my recollections there.

For this reason I discounted the Bachmann model for my LBSC Atlantic, but partly also because I have a DJH kit, the white metal bits of which were assembled beautifully for me by Tony Wright, who is happy with white metal whereas I can’t handle the stuff for too long. I have to produce a chassis someday. Mind you, even DJH stretched the wheelbase by a millimetre to accommodate the flanges, which I can live with as it’s all hidden behind the middle steps and the wheels will be the correct size.

It might be just a Bachmann thing, I’ve found it on some of their other engines as well. Hornby don’t tend to muck around with driver size, though, but some of these RTR engines are not quite as accurate as the mainstream reviews would have you believe!

Philip

Edward45
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Edward45 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:44 am

I have no experience of the Bachmann Atlantics. In the case of the DJH Atlantics Alastar Rolfe admitted that he had modelled them overscale to overcome some of the "operational" issues. For example the tender frames and those of the loco trailing wheels are too deep. To compensate the buffer beams have been deepened to bring the buffers to an acceptable level. The consequence of raising the footplate resulted in the splashers being relatively undersize. When it comes to the chassis, not only are the coupled wheels set at about 29mm, but also the front bogie is set forward with a consequence to the lengths of the conrod and footplate. There is little point in going on. The late John Edgson made it work in EM gauge and for anyone wishing to build a GN Atlantic I would again refer them to the Guy Williams book.

Philip Hall
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Philip Hall » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:52 am

Just as I thought my Atlantic would be OK! Maybe the LBSCR one is better, but I will have to look more closely when building time approaches. Thanks for the information, possibly not what I wanted to hear...

Philip

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:13 am

Wow! Many of the potential issues and pitfalls with the kit build approach and the Bachmann r-t-r conversion approach already identified and described. Many thanks to those who have contributed on this. I won't be building/converting this C1 until the year after next but the postings above give me a very good steer as to what to avoid and how to proceed.

The plan beginning to formulate, is to use the Bachmann C1 model as the basis but to scratch build a completely new chassis. This should resolve the buffer height issue and any compromises that they've made by adding bogie wheel cut outs. The key thing, to be able to use the Bachmann body, is the size and spacing of the splashers. If that is correct then that would certainly warrant a new scratch built chassis.

Livery/repainting of an r-t-r body (if in LNER lined green) will not be a problem as the loco was in plain black in its last British Railways years.

I did start a Bachmann Jubilee conversion, using a Comet chassis but I quickly found that Bachmann had extended the wheelbase by a mm or two, to accommodate the larger OO flanges. So the Comet chassis, which is spaced correctly simply didn't line up with the splashers on the body. Shame, because the Bachmann Jubilee body is pretty good though clearly slightly inaccurate.

Before I tackle any of this I have a couple of Bachmann B1's to convert, using David Bradwell chassis kits. There is also a Bachmann Peppercorn A1 to do, again using one of David Bradwell's chassis kits. So I'll post some details of the processes, etc. on here when I get to doing those. I really will have to retitle the thread, then.

Once again, many thanks.

Cheers

Mike

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:58 am

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J77 - Fletcher Cab

So, after the brief 'armchair diversion' with Great Northern Atlantics, it's back to the far more tangible locos of the North Eastern.

Fresh out of the paint shop is this; an LNER J77. Why the works painters decided to outshop this in weathered black, rather than the more normal blackberry black, only they can know. After the markings are added, final detailing can then be done - couplings, injectors, sand pipes, etc, followed by the weathering. The prototype photo - again courtesy of Mick Nicholson - was taken in summer 1952 so reasonable to assume (hopefully) that the loco was in much smarter external condition in mid 1950.

The photo shows where a little touching up is needed; one of the great benefits of digital photography!

The loco is to be 68402 of 53C - Hull Springhead (Alexandra dock) shed.

Cheers
Attachments
P2040017.JPG
J77 68402. Springhead 24 August 1952.jpg

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:51 pm

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J77 - Fletcher Cab

And now we start to tone down the colours and add a bit of muck, grime and rust. It's quite a long process, this weathering, as we 'breathe life' into the model, but I don't want to overdo it as the loco is intended to look 'six to nine months out of works'.

I checked the buffer height of the loco to find the front end of the loco was around .75 mm too high, suggested by the previous photo. This has been adjusted and now seems correct.

This one is number six, with the round window version - 68429 - being number seven in the ranks of the 0-6-0 shunting tanks.

These '7mm scale' photos of 4mm scale models are not always too kind!!

Cheers

Mike
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P2060018.JPG

ColinMcC
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby ColinMcC » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:36 am

Sellotape can be quite useful in removing fibreglass strands from your fingers.

DougN
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby DougN » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:05 am

Le Corbusier wrote:
DougN wrote:My suggestion .... the jeweler's wire Bristle brushes.


Would you have a photo of what you use? Internet search brought up a whole range of different options :?


Sorry about this, Christmas you could say has gone nuts with work and home. Any how I have finally managed to get Camera, the wire wheels and the computer in the same time and in the same place. Below is the photo of the jewelers wheels I have been using to clean off solder from brass and nickle silver. I do go through rather a large number but about 12 last me about 2 years which usually involves a fair bit of brass kit building.
DSC_0962small.jpg
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:02 pm

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER A6

Firstly can I wish all the members and those who read the thread the very best wishes for the New Year.

A few posts back I showed a photograph of another of my A6 builds in its newly acquired coat of shiny black. It's now time to do the lining and adding of the markings; this done slowly, very slowly.

I'm using HMRS pressfix transfers on this and as the sheet is now quite old, the glue is not as potent as it might be so getting the various elements to stick can be a challenge. Anyway I've got to here, with just the bunker panel to add on this side. Then the other side will be done before I run out of inspiration and patience. After all of the lining and markings are added then I will give the model a very light wash of weathering just to seal the transfers and to tone down the shiny carrier film.

Taking the original photograph showed that the '6' was slightly too high, so has since been redone! Then the photograph was retaken, which is this one.

By the time of this model - 1950 - these locomotives were over forty years old and were not particularly cherished by the shed cleaners, which is why this one is done ex-works after its final heavy overhaul and repaint.

But they were impressive and handsome things, despite (or perhaps because of) their age!

Cheers

Mike
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Will L
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Will L » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:35 pm

mikemeg wrote:...I'm using HMRS pressfix transfers on this and as the sheet is now quite old, the glue is not as potent as it might be so getting the various elements to stick can be a challenge...


I seem to remember that Pressfix transfers that have passed their best can be made to work by treating them like Methfix transfers, which as I prefer the Methfix variety in the first place...

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:47 am

Will L wrote:
mikemeg wrote:...I'm using HMRS pressfix transfers on this and as the sheet is now quite old, the glue is not as potent as it might be so getting the various elements to stick can be a challenge...


I seem to remember that Pressfix transfers that have passed their best can be made to work by treating them like Methfix transfers, which as I prefer the Methfix variety in the first place...


They certainly can but the glue takes much longer to dry so separating the top film from the transfer can be a long and somewhat frustrating process. Looks ok when it's done though.

Cheers

Mike

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:06 am

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER A6

The loco's number, on the bunker side, has now been re-done as I was not satisfied with its centering. So just side 2 to do now and then the final detailing can be done. I took time out from this to paint the last of the J77's, which is why progress on this is slow.

So turned out all in its Sunday best is Hull Botanic Gardens' A6 69791 as in mid 1950. This loco was withdrawn the following year.

I don't know what other readers/viewers of the thread might think but, for me, tank locomotives just didn't get much better than these!

Cheers

Mike
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P2270014.JPG

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:37 pm

NORTH EASTERN KTS LNER J77 Fletcher Cab

The round windowed example - 68429 - has now joined the square windowed example - 68402 - with both in the process of being weathered, prior to adding the sand pipes, crews and the final details.

These are becoming essays in various shades of 'mucky' black.

Cheers

Mike
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Last edited by mikemeg on Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Horsetan
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Horsetan » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:56 pm

mikemeg wrote:NORTH EASTERN KTS LNER J77 Fletcher Cab....


Mike:

Is Arthur Kimber alright? I tried PM-ing and e-mailing him over a month ago about the Q7 and long bunker J72, but I'm not getting a response.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:18 pm

Horsetan wrote:
mikemeg wrote:NORTH EASTERN KTS LNER J77 Fletcher Cab....


Mike:

Is Arthur Kimber alright? I tried PM-ing and e-mailing him over a month ago about the Q7 and long bunker J72, but I'm not getting a response.


Ivan,

Yes, I spoke to him just a few days ago and he was fine. Arthur did have some serious problems with his e-mail, just before Christmas, which your mails might have got caught up in. So perhaps try his e-mail again.

Cheers

Mike

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ArthurK
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby ArthurK » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:36 pm

Horsetan wrote:
mikemeg wrote:NORTH EASTERN KTS LNER J77 Fletcher Cab....


Mike:

Is Arthur Kimber alright? I tried PM-ing and e-mailing him over a month ago about the Q7 and long bunker J72, but I'm not getting a response.


Hi Ivan

Yes I'm fine but old and slow!

The J72 (short bunker) will be shipping within days. The long bunker needs to have the instructions finished, then it too will be released. Give me a couple of weeks for that. I will send a PM when it is ready.

The Q7 is a different story. I am trying to make this a bit special with visible valve gear between the frames. Because of the high boiler it is very open there. I can assure you that it is not forgotten. Mike has already done a test build for me. I have also test built one myself.

PICT1205.JPG

PICT1203 - Copy.JPG


ArthurK

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ArthurK
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby ArthurK » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:44 pm

J27s

Nobody has remarked on the fact that J27s were allocated to the northern area of the GE Section in the 1930s when there was a shortage of heavy goods locos in that area. They returned to the NE when J39s multiplied.

ArthurK

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Horsetan
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Horsetan » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:20 pm

Arthur: many thanks :thumb
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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iak
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby iak » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:29 am

ArthurK wrote:
The J72 (short bunker) will be shipping within days. The long bunker needs to have the instructions finished, then it too will be released. Give me a couple of weeks for that. I will send a PM when it is ready.


ArthurK


Better find my cheque book then methinks...
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Edward45
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Edward45 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:05 pm

Just a short addition. According to RCTS and Ken Hoole, the twelve J27 allocated to the former GE area were superheated version. These were constructed between Nov 1921 and Oct 1923. Significant details would be the extended smokebox and the tenders having the later version of underframe. Unlike the preserved J27 these underframes had oval slots similar to those on the tender of the preserved Q7.

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:31 am

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER A6

So now just the final details and this is ready to enter service on Hessle Haven. Doesn't matter how many I've built, it's always exciting when a new one enters service on the layout.

At the time of my layout - mid 1950 - the railways were still suffering from the privations of the war, and were still very run down. So this is portrayed pretty well ex-works and that ex-LNWR lined black livery, adopted by British Railways, does sit well on these big tank locos.

Cheers

Mike
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:15 pm

Bachmann B1 Conversion

Lurking in the 'round tuit' drawer, for many a year, were two Bachmann B1 bodies and two of David Bradwell's chassis kits for the B1. So, between the test builds and more loco painting, I thought it was high time that I tackled something with Walschaerts valve gear and the two B1's came to mind. The filling of the holes from the stripped out handrail knobs isn't quite complete and needs a final application of filler to achieve the correct profile, which will be done before the body is detailed.

Anyway, I thought it might be useful to do a 'blow by blow' of these builds for I will do the two of them simultaneously, repeating each process twice as I proceed through the builds. Doesn't save very much time, doing two together - there aren't many economies of scale - but it does focus the mind on progressing in a reasonably orderly and ordered fashion.

The bodies of these two were stripped back a few years ago and the chimneys, domes and smokebox doors were replaced by brass castings from the two chassis kits. So after a couple of days of reading the instructions (several times) and checking the various etched parts, which are numbered 1 - 174, then it's time to 'bite the bullet' and start.

The basis of the chassis is a fold up arrangement, which allows the chassis to be built for 'OO', EM or P4. Photograph 1 shows this part folded up for P4. Care must be taken when folding this to retain the squareness of the top, as this part contains two sets of fold marks. I clamped the piece between two steel rulers, held in the vice in order to fold only the outer fold lines. Once folded, then the part can be checked against the front of the body underside to ensure that the chassis base slides into the retaining pocket under the front footplate.

The actual mainframes are overlays which are located on corresponding holes in the overlay and the chassis base and then soldered to the chassis fold up section. After soldering up the first mainframe overlay, I then checked this against the body, as per the photograph.

You will probably have noticed, by now, that I do love photographing these things at 'eye level'. Somehow they look less like models from that viewpoint.

Cheers

MIke
Attachments
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P3170016.JPG
P3170017.JPG
P3170018.JPG
Last edited by mikemeg on Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:28 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Horsetan
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Horsetan » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:21 pm

I wonder if the Bradwell chassis would work under the later Hornby body?
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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