Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

myoxall
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Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby myoxall » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:03 pm

Good evening all,

Can anyone let me know where I can find the "throw" for a Stroudley E1 Tank from the Driving Axle to the Connecting Rod Crank? I have been unable to track down a sufficiently detailed drawing.

Martin

hughesp87
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby hughesp87 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:29 pm

Martin,

Sharman's "Wheel specifications for the modeller" shows the E1 as having 4' 6" 14 spoke wheels with an 18" crank pin throw and pin in line with the spokes.

Hope this helps.

Geraint
Geraint Hughes
Cromford & High Peak in P4
Danish Railways in P87

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:33 am

I think Martin is looking for the crank throw, not the crankpin throw.
The crank throw is equal to the cylinder stroke, so that should be quoted somewhere. usually on the diagram so the tractive effort can be calculated.
Regards
PS. just checked Wikipedia, gives 24" stroke.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LB%26SCR_E1_class

charleswrigley
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby charleswrigley » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:28 am

Both pieces of information are correct as Stroudley favoured shorter cranks on the outside of the driving wheels to move the coupling rods. From HJ Campbell Cornwell's book "William Stroudley Craftsman of Steam" the internal crank on the axle matched the cylinder stroke of 24" with a throw of 12" but the external crank on the drivers had a 9" throw.

If modelling the internal parts, don't forget Stroudley set up the internal and external cranks in line with each other.

Charlie

myoxall
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby myoxall » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:42 am

Thank you, Geraint, Keith and Charlie for your information.

I have now discovered that 4' 6" 14 spoke wheels with a 9" inline crank are not manufactured. The closest match I can find is an Alan Gibson 4' 6" 14 Spoke wheel with a 9 1/2" crank between the spokes. I will order them up and see if the crank boss can be modified.

Once again thanks for taking the time to reply.

Regards,

Martin

Julian Roberts
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby Julian Roberts » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:45 am

charleswrigley wrote:Both pieces of information are correct as Stroudley favoured shorter cranks on the outside of the driving wheels to move the coupling rods. From HJ Campbell Cornwell's book "William Stroudley Craftsman of Steam" the internal crank on the axle matched the cylinder stroke of 24" with a throw of 12" but the external crank on the drivers had a 9" throw.

Charlie



That's interesting Charlie. Why, I wonder, did Stroudley favour a different crank throw for the internal and external cranks? I have often wondered whether in general an internal cylinder stroke is a reliable guide to the external crank throw (where there are no outside cylinders). Did certain designers adopt a uniform strategy, or did it just vary from class to class?


Not that I need to know for modelling purposes, given that I have the Sharman book - I just find it an interesting fact, that the throw doesn't have to be the same.

charleswrigley
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby charleswrigley » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:41 am

The answer to your question Julian is given in the following extract from the Cornwell Stroudley book:

"Another Stroudley peculiarity was that the coupling rod cranks had a much shorter throw than the connecting rod cranks, 9 in or 10 in against 12 in or 13 in. Stroudley believed that coupling rods broke partly because of their great length, and partly because of the strain when their momentum was was arrested at the top and bottom of their throw. The longer the crank, the greater would be the velocity of the rod, the greater the strain. With a short crank of only 9 in the strain appeared to be insufficient to cause any stress in the metal beyond its own elasticity. Another advantage of the short coupling rod crank was the improved durability of the connecting rod bushes."

I think the above makes more sense if the term 'vertical' was inserted before momentum. The whole book is written to show that Stroudley was a very considered locomotive engineer who wasn't afraid to apply his own distinctive solutions to elements of design which he thought may improve performance and reliability.

Charlie

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Noel
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby Noel » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:29 pm

I wonder what he would have made of the Union Pacific '9000' class three cylinder 4-12-2 ...
Noel

charleswrigley
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby charleswrigley » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:50 pm

He wouldn't have liked the ieading bogie!

Charlie

Julian Roberts
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby Julian Roberts » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:51 pm

Thanks Charlie. In idle curiosity I've just looked in my Sharman book at Drummond and the CR people following, Lambie and McIntosh. Am I right that Stroudley influenced these people particularly - did Stroudley have a Scottish connection perhaps? The 18" outside stroke persisted. The Drummond M7 has 26" stroke inside, 18" outside, and several more of his LSWR locos including the T9. Interestingly, Adams didn't follow the example. His 02 Isle of Wight 0-4-4s are 24" inside and out, and other classes.

Lambie seems to have the same 18" outside, and 24" inside on several classes. McIntosh also standardized on 18" outside, and 26" inside (except for the 104), including on his mighty inside cylinder 4-6-0s (Carndean etc), the exception being the 782 and related 29 class with 20" outside.

Meanwhile Stroudley's worries about the coupling rods don't seem to have been shared by Churchward with several outside cylinder classes having 30" outside stroke!

By the way Martin I did alter the throw of the wheels for my McIntosh 812 class from the nearest Alan Gibson wheel available, moving it inwards. It was far enough to bother and turned out fine, but I wouldn't be bothered with altering the crankpin from between to inline or vice versa. Several years ago now so I forget precise details.

charleswrigley
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby charleswrigley » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:47 am

Stroudley worked for 2 years as works manager at Cowlairs on the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway before becoming Locomotive Superintendent of the Highland Railway from 1865-1870 when he moved south to take charge at the LBSCR. During that all time he was assisted by Dugald Drummond. Drummond left Stroudley and Brighton in 1875 to go north of the border to become Locomotive Superintendent at first the NBR and then the CR (and eventually the LSWR).

So yes there is an explanation for the migration of influence and design across the border. An interesting manifestation is that the CR referred to the design of the tenders pulled by the early 0-6-0 Jumbo engines as 'Stroudley Tenders'.

Charlie

Phil O
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Re: Stroudley Class E1 0-6-0 T

Postby Phil O » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:46 pm

The preserved E1 went to the Isle of Wight, after it left Cranmore.

Phil


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