Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

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junctionmad
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Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby junctionmad » Thu May 31, 2018 6:16 pm

Has anyone a dimensioned drawing of the new Mk2 frame, Im building a box to accommodate them in advance of ordering them


regards

Dave

JFS
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby JFS » Thu May 31, 2018 7:58 pm

Hello Dave,

Not sure how much detail or precision you need, but here is a quick one with a couple of the principle dimensions indicated. If you only need a rough idea, you would be safe enough scaling the rest. Also, if you visit the instruction page - http://www.blockpostsoftware.co.uk/L_frame.html - you will find a drilling template for the mounting holes.

Dimensioned sketch.jpg
Dimensioned sketch.jpg (154.97 KiB) Viewed 1355 times


Hope that helps,

junctionmad
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby junctionmad » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:20 pm

been away sailing , so thanks howard


dave

The diagram was viewed 322 times, so it suggests a few people were interested

junctionmad
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby junctionmad » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:07 pm

I just worked out I need 55 levers , ( 6 spare )

the frame will be the best part of 2 feet long !!!

JFS
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby JFS » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:11 pm

junctionmad wrote:I just worked out I need 55 levers , ( 6 spare )

the frame will be the best part of 2 feet long !!!


In fact, just like this...

55 levers Small.jpg


Enjoy!

Best Wishes,

DougN
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby DougN » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:36 pm

Seriously nice there Howard, I have been working on a Mk1 frame of 10 levers (which probabaly will end up needing to be longer), which is almost finished. Having tried to finish my levers after having been started years and years ago I can see how long this will have taken you! :thumb
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

JFS
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby JFS » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:06 am

DougN wrote:Seriously nice there Howard, I have been working on a Mk1 frame of 10 levers (which probabaly will end up needing to be longer), which is almost finished. Having tried to finish my levers after having been started years and years ago I can see how long this will have taken you! :thumb



Thank you Doug, but I did have help! The frame is for a layout with a large group of supporters - some of whom were "happy to volunteer" for service on the production line - the first 10 levers are the hardest - after that you get in the swing!

I would also say that being faced with the challenge of one frame with 70 levers plus a second of 55 was the incentive to come up with the MkII design. It is not there is anything with the MkI - rather that the MkII is designed for ease and precision of manufacture and to facilitate long frames. I don't say a 55 lever frame would be impossible with the MkI (though I have never seen one) but it would be a massive challenge.

Best Wishes,

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Colin Parks
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby Colin Parks » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:26 pm

Hello Howard,

Having studied the drawing in your above post, could I ask what (minimum) width of timber section would you advise for fitting to the side of a base board? Also, I am hoping to devise a way of making the frame detachable from the drive rods - if that is feasible.

All the best,

Colin

JFS
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby JFS » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:04 pm

Colin Parks wrote:Hello Howard,

Having studied the drawing in your above post, could I ask what (minimum) width of timber section would you advise for fitting to the side of a base board? Also, I am hoping to devise a way of making the frame detachable from the drive rods - if that is feasible.



Hello Colin,

Last question first... it certainly is possible to make the frame removable - even with mechanical connections. There are more or less complex ways of doing this - Minories uses quite a complex approach because of the need to have the frame at a low level as it is on the "public viewing" side of the baseboard. But a simpler way is shown in the sketch below:-

Removable.jpg
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In principle, the rodding is terminated with "hooks" which fit over the pins on the locking cams (or top drive clevises for those not using the locking). The frame, mounted on its wooden base, is secured by means of brackets off the baseboard front in such a way that the base can be unbolted and slid downwards as per the arrow - this allows the "hooks" to disengage from the locking cam ends.

I have designed an etch for the hooks and their guides as these are also used in the Minories system. I could get some made if necessary. I can also post a couple of photos if you need more ideas at this stage.

Re the first question, usually, the size depends on whether you need to fit the microswitches or not. However, if you want a removeable frame, then the size is fixed as per the diagram. The exact size will then depend on exactly how you arrange your "hooks" - but by way of a rough guide, you should be able to scale the sketch as it is to scale. Let me know if you need to be more accurate at this stage and I will work something out.

Very Best Wishes,

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Colin Parks
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby Colin Parks » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:40 pm

That is now very clear Howard.

Now I just need to finalise the way that the drive rod ends come through the side of the baseboard. At present, they might be set a little too high, though I am not overly concerned about the levers being visible as a consequence.

It looks as though the hooks need to be be controlled in the vertical plane, to avoid the hook ends lifting away from the pins on the drive cams. If the hooks passed though over-sized slots, then perhaps a removable metal strip screwed across the top of the hooks would hold them down against the pins effectively.

All the best,

Colin

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Ian Everett
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby Ian Everett » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:54 am

I use electrical connectors such as https://www.amazon.co.uk/CONNECTOR-STRI ... ctors&th=1 (although I sourced them from the local builders' merchant)

These are obviously not suitable for portable layouts which are dismantled repeatedly but for occasional dismantling they work fine and allow an element of adjustment. Buy the bigger versions as the small ones tend to stip their threads

Ian

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Colin Parks
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby Colin Parks » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:12 am

Ah! I should have mentioned in my previous that I do not intend to have any electrical connections to the frame, which makes detachment from the baseboard so much more simple - not that it would be something that I envisage being done that often.

JFS
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby JFS » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:47 am

Hello Colin,

Just to say that if you don't need to disconnect things very often, it makes a big difference. The simplest method - if you don't need removal to be a frequent nor quick occurrence, is just too split the rodding behind the baseboard fascia, then re-join them using the metal bits out of "chocolate block" electrical connectors. ( EDIT:- as per Ian suggestion above ). Removal then involves going under the baseboard, undoing the screws and pulling the frame away. Simple to make - even it is quite a fag to use.

The two means I have used are rather more aimed at exhibitions - where the whole things needs to be quick and simple, but obviously, that means a bit more work to make.

Here are the two ways I have done it. Firstly, for my "test track", the arrangement is as per the drawing. As you mentioned, the "hooks" need guidance.

Remove 1.jpg
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Remove 2.jpg
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Remove 3.jpg
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the hooks are made from N/S strip soldered into slots cut in brass tube. The guides I had etched, but scratched building would have been easy enough.

Of course, these are the Mk1 frames with the v0.0 and v0.1 locking knife and forked together, but the geometry is exactly the same as the Mk II.

The Minories solution is a fair bit more sophisticated to make it quick and easy given it is 25 levers.



Minories Remove 2.jpg
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Minories Remove 1.jpg
Minories Remove 1.jpg (208.04 KiB) Viewed 734 times


These bit were all etched for the job.

Hope that give you a few ideas.

Very Best Wishes,

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Ian Everett
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby Ian Everett » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:35 pm

Sorry, JFS, but with a bit of ingenuity chocolate block connectors do not need to be below the baseboard. Accepting my age and infirmity I have arranged that as far as possible all mechansms will be above baseboard level and that everything that might go wrong is easily accessible from above, so I have adopted Peter Denny's design for a "lever frame" and this means that the connectors will be accessed from above:

thumb_P1100826_1024.jpg


This will be covered by removable scenery. I would have liked a proper lever frame but Peter Denny's design was quick to build, works well and I find its simplicity is elegant, which to my mind is better than being sophisticated. ;)

Ian

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LesGros
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby LesGros » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:13 pm

The late Peter Denny: a brilliant modeller. On Buckingham, his lift-off sections of scenery for access to above-the-board mechanisms are an inspiration of simplicity, and a feature well worth emulating.
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

JFS
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby JFS » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:17 pm

Ian Everett wrote:Sorry, JFS, but ...


No need for apology Ian - there are always more solutions than problems and it will be a poor day when there are not!

And - perhaps like yourself - I was admiring Peter Denny's solutions 50 years ago, when most of the world had no idea why anyone would want signals on their layout - let alone a frame to work them from!

That said, I am very dangerous in a box with no locking :)

Best Wishes,

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Ian Everett
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby Ian Everett » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:31 pm

JFS wrote:That said, I am very dangerous in a box with no locking :)

Wicked!

So am I but in 1:76 scale I am willing to take the risk.

I wonder if Howard's next project will be that other Victorian life-saver, continuous brakes?

Ian :o

junctionmad
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby junctionmad » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:51 pm

Boy , Im looking forward to my 55 lever frame, Mine will be electrically interlocked with a bi-colour LED at the base of each lever, indicating that the lever is locked or not , locked levers will move but not activate anything


Howard, can the frame be fitted into a panel, or just it have to be supported from the base , mine will only have microswitches

JFS
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby JFS » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:36 pm

Ian Everett wrote:
I wonder if Howard's next project will be that other Victorian life-saver, continuous brakes?

Ian :o


I am with Staats Forbes Chairman of the Chatham, who realised that Sykes Lock and Block kept the trains apart reliably enough to avoid the cost of continuous brakes, and was a much cheaper investment!

Best Wishes,

JFS
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby JFS » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:45 pm

junctionmad wrote:
Howard, can the frame be fitted into a panel, or just it have to be supported from the base , mine will only have microswitches


Hi Dave,

It needs a base only in the sense that the brackets for the microswitches are not attached to the frame except by some kind of common base - but if you are not using the mechanical locking, then it can just be a piece of something flat rather than the substantial block of timber. Certainly, there is no problem in having the quadrant tops fitted flush with some form of panel.

It might be an idea to just purchase a single unit of five levers and have a play with it to test options before finalising your mounting arrangement, bearing in mind that you might need to use two microswitches - one to drive the locking circuits and one to control your points and signals. though there are of course ways of avoiding that with a bit of clever electrical design. (on which I am no expert at all!)

Best Wishes,

DougN
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby DougN » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:16 am

As per above I have been finishing off the below Mark 1 lever frame:-
DSC_0806.JPG

This has take years since I purchased it from a local member and I am most greatful to him as he passed away this year. So as I have been finishing it off as way to remember him!

Any how I took it to the local group meeting yesterday and a number of members where rather taken with it. So there may be a few more mark 1's leaving the stores! :thumb

A couple of notes to add to Paul's comments from MRJ 225 from my perspective.
1 the holes in the handles can be opened out to 1.4mm with a drill which leaves more meat on the actual lever to fix the handle too.
2 The micro switches are available here in Australia BUT the lever on the switch needs to be rolled around a set of pointy nosed pliers to make a loop as can be seen in the photo below (the Jaycar (Australian electronics shop) number is SM1038 ) this can just be seen in the below photo:
DSC_0810.JPG

These are tight on one of their fixing holes to the 3/32 rod through the frame, the other is loose enough to slid through easily. I did not need to open out the tight hole as this keeps them in the right location against the levers.

I have rather enjoyed completing the frame over the last week and a half. SO it is a bit of a thank you to Howard to puting his frame up which encouraged me to go and complete the MK1 version! :thumb
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Ian Everett
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby Ian Everett » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:03 am

JFS wrote:
Ian Everett wrote:
I wonder if Howard's next project will be that other Victorian life-saver, continuous brakes?

Ian :o


I am with Staats Forbes Chairman of the Chatham, who realised that Sykes Lock and Block kept the trains apart reliably enough to avoid the cost of continuous brakes, and was a much cheaper investment!

Best Wishes,


Remember Armagh - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armagh_rail_disaster

15 all ;)

Ian

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Noel
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby Noel » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:38 am

I would offer Purley Oaks 24/10/1947 and Barnes Junction 2/12/1955, both caused by misuse of the Sykes release key.
Noel

Terry Bendall
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:21 am

LesGros wrote:The late Peter Denny: a brilliant modeller.


A section of Peter Denny's layout, that of Leighton Buzzard will be on display at Scaleforum this year.

Howard will be demonstrating his lever frame design and no doubt that 55 lever frame will be on show.

Terry Bendall

junctionmad
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Re: Mk2 Lever Frame , Dimensions

Postby junctionmad » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:42 am

JFS wrote:
junctionmad wrote:
Howard, can the frame be fitted into a panel, or just it have to be supported from the base , mine will only have microswitches


Hi Dave,

It needs a base only in the sense that the brackets for the microswitches are not attached to the frame except by some kind of common base - but if you are not using the mechanical locking, then it can just be a piece of something flat rather than the substantial block of timber. Certainly, there is no problem in having the quadrant tops fitted flush with some form of panel.

It might be an idea to just purchase a single unit of five levers and have a play with it to test options before finalising your mounting arrangement, bearing in mind that you might need to use two microswitches - one to drive the locking circuits and one to control your points and signals. though there are of course ways of avoiding that with a bit of clever electrical design. (on which I am no expert at all!)

Best Wishes,


were using MERGs CBUS, so all interlocking is by layout bus, logical eventsso we only need one switch per lever, to drive everything

Ive order the 11 sets yesterday , and will make up one module to see how it all fits

Thanks again howard for your efforts

dave


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