Bristol Barrow Road

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
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Colin Parks
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Colin Parks » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:17 pm

Hi barrowroad,

That video is magnificent! It is so inspiring to see progress on large P4 layouts like yours, with scale-length trains on sweeping curves.

All the best,

Colin

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Re6/6
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Re6/6 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:19 pm

Robin, very impressive smooth running there.

What is your method of fixed connections within the rake?
John

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:52 pm

Thank you Colin. I have spent some time over the past couple of months debugging the Up and Down main lines. Most P4 layouts tend to be end to end with fiddle yards - indeed my other layout Sheep Pasture is a case in point - and the curves on Barrow Road certainly test out locomotives and rolling stock.
I'm following Steve Hall's procedure in Snooze for methodically checking and testing the layout. Track work needed adjustment in places and
rolling stock tweaked. On the current test the second bogie of the first brake third kept derailing at two places on the layout before a successful circuit was made and was traced to a sticking bearing in the Bill Bedford bogie.
The front bogie on 4-6-0s is my current problem on the curves and I am going to modify a Masokits front bogie etch for my Hornby Black 5 shortly to see if I can resolve the problem of derailment on some of the curves - the minimum radius is 1400mm.

Hi John, The Comet coaches were originally owned by Geoff Brewin, a Glevum member, and are coupled together using two lengths of brass strip. One has two holes and the other two pins which fit into the holes. the other end of each is slotted and fits over the bogie centre screw that is fixed to the coach chassis. I'll try and get a photo for you as it will be better that my description.

Robin

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Le Corbusier » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:12 pm

barrowroad wrote:I have a rake of Comet coaches which I converted from 00 using Bill Bedford sprung bogies and Gibson P4 wheels. These coaches are a fixed rake and have now had Alex Jackson couplings added to each end to enable a test run of the complete set. As they are heavy I decided to use one of my converted Bachmann Peaks, D13, to pull the test train.

Robin,

Fantastic video .... I love the sound of the bogies on the track .... very evocative.

Tim
Tim Lee

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Serjt-Dave » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:05 pm

Excellent work there Robin, coming on a treat. The weight of the rake must quite a bit. Whats the average weight of them {if you know}? Looking forwards to seeing more updates and videos.

Dave.

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:25 pm

Hi Dave, I didn't know the weights but I do now as I've been out to the shed :) The weight of the Brake third is 200g and the restaurant car 220g. Total train weight is therefore 1620g with the Peak weighing in at 550g. Beyond Barrow Road arches the line rises on a 1 in 89 gradient - quite noticeable when driving the train! Interestingly the converted Bachmann Mk1's - see earlier video - weigh in at 130g.

Robin

Philip Hall
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:41 pm

Robin, those carriages ride beautifully. That kind of weight always helps, it really does create the illusion of a heavy train because it is just that.

On another topic (and if you’ve mentioned this before, apologies) what adhesive (if any) have you used to fix the track down? It looks as though you have just rubber underlay in the hidden areas, and cork on top of rubber in the visible areas, with what looks like strips of paper under the rails (or maybe self adhesive tape). Is that correct? I ask as I am keen to make sure of level track but also sound insulation.

Philip

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:31 am

Hi Philip,

The track on the scenic areas has a base of 5mm black foam underlay which came from C&L. I originally used PVA to fix it to the baseboards but later used a lot of double sided tape - seems to work okay.
The main line has a layer of cork fixed onto the 5mm foam using the same adhesive.
My track has lengths of 6mm wide black card laid under each rail which is cut from A4 sheets using a guillotine. [ Daler Rowney A4 Black Paper 150g/m3.] The card is 0.2mm thick. I use PVA to glue the card lengths to the underside of the sleepers and PVA to glue the base of the card to the foam or cork.
The track is positioned and weighted until the glue is set.
The great benefit of using this method - obtained courtesy of Graham Turner late of our group - is that if you need to lift the track all you do is slide an artists palette knife between the foam or cork and the underside of the card strip and undo the glue. This way you can lift the track without damage.
You can use additional strips of card to correct dips or even add super elevation on curves.
On the non scenic boards I looked for a different underlay and discovered some black self adhesive wood floor underlay, 2mm thick, in B&Q. Bit expensive @ £50 for 10m x 1m but I found the equivalent on ebay for £17. Same method laying the track used in the fiddle yard.
I would thoroughly recommend use of the card strip method - I've had to lift sections of my track on a lot occasions. It has been lifted without damage and saves having to rebuild in most circumstances.

Robin

Philip Hall
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:18 pm

Thanks Robin,

Just what I needed to know. It does seem to provide good sound insulation. The card strip idea is very good, I will have a go at a length to see how I get on.

Philip

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:25 pm

Diesels are alright but I thought it about time we had steam so this afternoon my modified Hornby Black 5 44965 stretched her legs around the layout for the first time.





The engine is converted to P4 using Alan Gibson wheels. The Hornby chassis has cosmetic frames - a Gibson milled version - which I attached using strips of plasticard, as spacers, to widen the distance between the frames. The coupling rods and valve gear are the original Hornby ones - I removed the threaded nuts from the Hornby wheels and fixed them into the Gibson wheels which enabled use of the original fixinfgscrews.
The front bogie has been replaced using a Masokits unit and Comet side frames. Extra detailing comes from a Brassmasters detailing kit for the Black 5.

Philip Hall
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:09 pm

Runs very nicely Robin. Interesting that you used the Hornby crankpins, as I have just done the same on a Southern 700 Class 0-6-0 and vowed never to do it again! I had a lot of grief getting the Hornby crankpins into the wheels vertically. The advantage, though, was the clearance around the pins in the rods remained the same, so the running ought to have been.

I found out because of this that the amount of slop built into a commercial chassis was not very much more than I have in a home build or conversion using different crankpins. I aim for 0.1mm clearance (1.6mm rod hole, 1.5mm nominal crankpin bush) and the Hornby ones were only a fraction bigger. I was always sure that RTR were much sloppier!

Philip

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Colin Parks
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Colin Parks » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:05 am

Thanks for sharing the video with us Robin!

That train slinks around very smoothly.

All the best,

Colin

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:48 am

It's going to be one hell of a layout when it's finished. More videos please.

Dave

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:23 pm

The layout is not operational at present as all the power supply units, NCE equipment and circuit breakers are elsewhere for fitting into two power boxes than are being made for me - thanks again Chris!



In the meantime I decided to make a start on the B7R and B7L turnouts for the storage sidings. I am using 4mm wide x 1.6mm thick copper clad strip for the sleeper timbers and Nickel silver bullhead rail.



These series of photos show the latter stages of construction. The timbers have been laid out on templot templates the 1 in 7 crossing V constructed and soldered into position followed by the straight and curved stock rails. We pick up construction with the first of the wing rails. In the photos left to right are - DD Wheelrights Jig for crossing alignment - two three point track gauges and a Roger Sander 'Mint gauge'.
To the front is a jig for filing up the 1 in 7 crossing V. It also will do 1 in 6; 1 in 8 and 1 in 9.

IMG_20180429_111330291.jpg


The DD block gauge in use to set the wing rails.

IMG_20180429_111919787.jpg


The Mint gauge is used to check tightness in the track gauge. If tight the soldering iron will assist adjustment.

IMG_20180429_112821772.jpg


Three track gauges in use to hold the closure rail/switch blade in position.

IMG_20180429_113824368.jpg


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Wing rails added.

IMG_20180429_121552045.jpg


IMG_20180429_121552045.jpg


Soldering the blades.

IMG_20180429_123104445.jpg


Five made so far - only 26 to go.
Attachments
IMG_20180429_120407779.jpg

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RobM
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby RobM » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:39 pm

Just goes to show that you cannot have to many track gauges....... :thumb
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Tony Wilkins » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:05 am

barrowroad wrote:
Five made so far - only 26 to go.

Know the feeling well.
Regards
Tony.

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:26 pm

Just a quick update on the storage sidings. The total of turnouts built is now 11 with ten now fixed in position in the storage sidings and three of the sidings laid.
The turnouts are all constructed using 1.6mm thick double sided copper clad sleepers whilst the sidings are K&L and C&L lengths of flexitrack board joints strengthened using copper clad sleeper strips.

During the hot weather I have checked all the rail joints on the turnouts and board joints and where necessary I have widened the gap using a very thin file - a very useful tool obtained some years ago from Eileens.

Here are some photos of the progress made so far. Once all the turnouts are in position I will fit digital cobalts and wire them in to two separate accessory buses.

IMG_20180717_162913866.jpg


IMG_20180717_163005085.jpg


IMG_20180717_163017981.jpg


IMG_20180717_163052941.jpg


IMG_20180717_163157771.jpg


IMG_20180717_163247984.jpg

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Mike Garwood » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:50 pm

Considering the crap day I've just had...I feel my mood lightning, thanks Rob, just what I needed. It looks quite spectacular!

Mike

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:36 pm

Always happy to oblige Mike :)

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:07 pm

Chris Yates has finished building the 'temporary panel' for Lawrence Hill Junction signal box, another job done for which I am very grateful. I say temporary because it only controls the turnouts at present as I have yet to build the signals.

Chris has built in interlocking on the junction using relays with LEDs confirming turnout settings and the junction with entrance and exit to the shed yard is now fully operational.

IMG_20190116_154656491.jpg

Lawrence Hill Junction Panel
IMG_20190116_155344888.jpg

Lawrence Hill double junction
IMG_20190116_155415145.jpg

Lawrence Hill Junction Signal Box and the shed north entrance and exit.

Here are a couple of videos of Ex Midland 3F 43712 going on shed - and off shed.

I suggest watching with the sound turned of as I forgot I had the radio on!!
Landscape mode would have been an improvement:-)



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steve howe
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby steve howe » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:41 pm

[quote="barrowroad"
The engine is converted to P4 using Alan Gibson wheels. The Hornby chassis has cosmetic frames - a Gibson milled version - which I attached using strips of plasticard, as spacers, to widen the distance between the frames. The coupling rods and valve gear are the original Hornby ones - I removed the threaded nuts from the Hornby wheels and fixed them into the Gibson wheels which enabled use of the original fixinfgscrews.
The front bogie has been replaced using a Masokits unit and Comet side frames. Extra detailing comes from a Brassmasters detailing kit for the Black 5.[/quote]

Sadly wrong era and wrong region for me, but gratifying to see a RTR chassis performing so well on proper wheels, :thumb I have a Hornby 'Hall' to convert similarly, I hope it turns out as well as your Black 5!

Steve

Dave Holt
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Dave Holt » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:09 pm

Robin.
The last entry prompted me to look back to find the quoted Black V reference and to re-watch your video from last June. I must say how well the loco runs - absolutely superb. I just hope my efforts ca do half as well. The train of ex-LMS coaches is also rather nice. What are their origins?
Dave.

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:48 pm

Hi Dave, I'm pleased with the Black 5. It is a Hornby model to which I added Gibson P4 wheels after adding width to the chassis by gluing 40thou plasticard spacers to the chassis before attaching Alan Gibson brass frames as a cosmetic only addition. As you may know the Hornby model has a sprung rear axle and sufficient slop in the others to give enough movement without the need to compensate. The front bogie caused a problem so I replaced it with a Masokits one. The Gibson wheels on the tender caused it to roll a bit and have been replaced but I will substitute a Dave Franks chassis in due course.
The rake of coaches are all Comet and were built and owned by Geoff Brewin. I have converted them to P4 using Bill Bedford LMS 9ft etches and Gibson wheels.
Robin

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barrowroad
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby barrowroad » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:14 pm

I am continuing the debugging of the track. Following the test of the turnouts from the Up main line into the engine shed with the 3F - shown in the previous videos - testing with my Hornby Black 5 showed that all was not well with the double slip. The Black 5 had an annoying habit of mounting the crossing V at the coaler end of the slip. This double slip was the first 'complicated' piece of track I ever built and has only recently come into full operational use. If you look closely at the slip you will see evidence of a partial rebuild of the slip - new solder - as I re -aligned the far crossing 'V', wing rails, closure rails etc at that end of the slip. The Black 5 now runs through without falling off - result :) .
Black 5 '44965' coming of shed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY_ASkofNvk&t=65s

Black 5 '44965 ' entering shed coal road]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Y9q03CxwU

Sorry for using the url links but for some reason the direct youtube link would not work for me
Last edited by grovenor-2685 on Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Put in the Youtube BBcode with correct syntax, use the edit button to see details, hover over 'youtube' button for syntax.

Dave Holt
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Re: Bristol Barrow Road

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:57 pm

Wow, Robin.
Irrespective of the double slip issue, that loco certainly runs an absolute treat. I doubt any of mine would roll along so smoothly at that speed.
Lovely.
Dave.


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