Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

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Paul Townsend
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Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby Paul Townsend » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:19 pm

I have two problems assembling this chassis:

1. The bearing carrier etch has fingers which should engage with the CSB wire but they are too long! The wire is about 2mm above the bearing tops but the fingers want to grasp a wire that is 4mm above the bearing.

2. The carrier etches foul the keeper lugs at hornblock bottom and prevent any bearing movement. Am I supposed to remove the bottom of the carrier etch after soldering to the bearing?

What am I doing wrong?

I have built the 3F loco chassis with no problems except those self-generated!

I have emd Bill but not yet had a reply.

Bill supplies this chassis kit as a standalone "LMS tender chassis" so someone must have built some and sorted this.

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby Russ Elliott » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:39 pm

paultownsend wrote:...someone must have built some and sorted this.

I think your early version was superseded by this one? (Not that I've seen that one built by anyone either.)

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:44 pm

Russ,
I believe it is the other way round, I have one from when the 4F first appeared, it is similar to your link and all fitted together perfectly.
The version with the fingers is the current version,this one.
(Which I have not tried).
Regards
Keith

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby Russ Elliott » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:06 pm

Ah, haven't these one of those either. Bill has got previous for getting finger lengths wrong, and I can see why Paul is having a problem of the carriers fouling the keeper lugs. Why are the keeper lugs there anyway?

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby Paul Townsend » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:14 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:Russ,
I believe it is the other way round, I have one from when the 4F first appeared, it is similar to your link and all fitted together perfectly.
The version with the fingers is the current version,this one.
(Which I have not tried).
Regards
Keith


Yes that is the version bothering me.

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby Paul Townsend » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm

Russ Elliott wrote:Ah, haven't these one of those either. Bill has got previous for getting finger lengths wrong, and I can see why Paul is having a problem of the carriers fouling the keeper lugs. Why are the keeper lugs there anyway?


Presumably to hold a little wire.

I thought this kit would be a painless way to gain CSB experience!
Naive eh?

I feel some handrail knobs coming to visit the axleboxes. Might be tricky to get the height right.

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45609
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby 45609 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:52 pm

Hello there Paul,

Well I've managed to get one working but I don't think this looks like the type you are battling with. Mine also looks to be different to the isometric drawing link Russ provided. So is this three or four versions we have identified? Sadly this is not untypical for Bill and can be rather frustrating. I've identified at least 4 versions of his sprung coach bogies since I first built one in 2005 but that is another story.

The problem with my tender chassis was that the upper brake cross shafts fouled the CSB wire run and even if the upper cross shafts were truncated the tender ride height would have been too low with the hornblock eyelets supplied. I tackled this by making the CSB wires run through at a different height. You should be able to see in the attached photos that I've use short Romford type (large ball) handrail knobs on two thin horizontal stretcher plates as replacement fixed fulcrums either side of the centre wheel set. The outer fuclrums have been made by putting in an additional vertical stretcher at each end with holes drilled to pass the spring wires through. The beams are 9 thou guitar wire at the moment but may need to go up a size when the tender is painted and a coal load is in place.

The loco chassis I was sold had another set of issues. The chief among them being the fact that Bill supplied 5mm square bearings but the fold out horncheeks were designed for 6mm square hornblocks.

Hope this helps....Morgan

P.S. No keeper lugs either

IMG162.jpg


IMG164.jpg


IMG166.jpg


IMG168.jpg
Last edited by 45609 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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45609
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby 45609 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:06 pm

paultownsend wrote:I thought this kit would be a painless way to gain CSB experience!
Naive eh?


The Lanarkshire Models CSB tender chassis might be a worth a try instead. Dave Franks seems to do thorough test builds.

LMS Tender Chassis by LMS

Currently only Stanier and Fowler chassis but the 3F is coming if you fancy another one.

Morgan

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TonyMont
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby TonyMont » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:54 pm

Hi Paul,
I am in the middle of building one of these chassis too, I have removed the bottom lugs and added a wire to the rearmost CSB wire anchor so that it would not fall down when the chassis is lifted from the track, it seems to work ok, and the ride height is correct. I had to open the fingers slightly in order to thread the CSB wire.

I have made up the brakes with cross wires and they seem to clear the CSB too, however I now want to fit pickups and that is proving to be a headache.
Best regards,
Tony.

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby Paul Townsend » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:21 am

mlgilbert30 wrote:Hello there Paul,

Well I've managed to get one working but I don't think this looks like the type you are battling with. Mine also looks to be different to the isometric drawing link Russ provided. So is this three or four versions we have identified? Sadly this is not untypical for Bill and can be rather frustrating. I've identified at least 4 versions of his sprung coach bogies since I first built one in 2005 but that is another story.



Certainly 3 versions, mine was bought last September so is probably the latest. Here is a picture of the problem area.
BB_3F Tender csb1.jpg
BB_3F Tender csb1.jpg (5.15 KiB) Viewed 5094 times


I will modify as suggested by TonyMont rather than ditch and replace the kit.

Did the various coach bogie designs improve? I have just received some of them via Eileens but haven't opened the packets yet.

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby Russ Elliott » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:43 am

Paul - as a suggestion, you could ditch the carrier, keep the wire retainer, and have the blocks loosely bearing up against the beam:

bills-bearings-tender.png
bills-bearings-tender.png (1.85 KiB) Viewed 5088 times

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45609
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby 45609 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:55 am

...or even drill a small hole (0.8 - 0.9mm from memory) in the top of the hornblock and solder in a short or medium handrail knob. I'm sure I have some that are about 2mm from flange to hole edge.

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LesGros
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby LesGros » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:30 pm

I had a chat with Dave Franks, at SECC, about handrail knobs for mounting CSB wires. He showed me a couple of his tender chasis, and advised the use of plain [parallel side] handrail mounts instead of the ball type. He said to ignore the spigot and drill the frame to take the major diameter instead; this will to allow the wire to be perfectly aligned with the hornblock holes. Temporary spacers can be slipped between the wire and the frame before soldering the mount to the frame if needed. The protruding waste shank can then be removed with saw/file.
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby Paul Townsend » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:22 pm

Russ Elliott wrote:Paul - as a suggestion, you could ditch the carrier, keep the wire retainer, and have the blocks loosely bearing up against the beam:

bills-bearings-tender.png


This option will be explored tomorrow. The tricky bit will be making the knife edge attachment the correct height but probably easier than drilling and adding hr knobs.

Ta for all who have offered advice :)

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:03 pm

The tricky bit will be making the knife edge attachment the correct height

It doesn't have to be a knife edge, a piece of brass wire of appropriate diameter would do.
Regards
Keith

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Bill Bedford 3F tender chassis

Postby Paul Townsend » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:11 am

Returning to this topic after 3 months of doing other modelling things....

This has been triggered by me spending an hour reading all about the new GC Loco range and lengthy discussions arising here and elsewhere.

I had complained here that Bill's 3F CSB tender chassis kit didn't seem to work due to a height discrepancy....lots of advice came in. Before posting here I had emailed Bill asking for his private input.

Bill did respond to me in March, promising to send a replacement etch.

So I shelved the job until the new etch came. It arrived in early June and is certainly different in the crucial area of my problem.

While I finish other tasks, I have not yet built the revised design so will have to delay reporting on its success or otherwise.

I just thought it worth keeping the record straight as other threads might generate the idea that Bill is unresponsive to correcting errors.
I am happy with his response and look forward to another go....the design is neat and it will be very quick to assemble.
Probably would have been done in the time reading about GC issues if Derek Russan hadn't lost the key to the cupboard where the roundtuits are kept..I asked for some last Saturday. :D


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