Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

DougN
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby DougN » Sat May 19, 2012 12:51 am

Phillip, That photo is great as Morgan has mentioned. I am a little amazed as nothing jumps out to my eye to scream "model" I do like photos like this. I guess it also shows the art of the designer for bachmann that every thing is in propotion and the finish is so well achieved (both on you r new wheels and the rest of the model). well done.
Doug
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Philip Hall
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Philip Hall » Wed May 23, 2012 10:23 pm

Thank you Doug.

The finish on the wheels was simply a spray from a can of Tamiya Rubber Black followed by a quick pass from a can of Humbrol Gun Metal, both acrylic. Once dry the wheels can be buffed up with a polishing mop in a small drill. This works on most matt finishes. If I want a more polished effect on the wheels I use a touch of thinned Metalcote Gunmetal which can be buffed to a higher shine. Here I just wanted to portray a fairly clean engine. The rest of the weathering was my usual Humbrol acrylics applied by brush, wiped off quickly (VERY quickly) with cotton buds or tissues, sometimes polished with the mop in the drill again, and a little dry brushing. I use Gunmetal, Leather and Dirty Black mostly.

A green engine seems to lend itself to this kind of finish far more easily than a black one, but I shall have to persevere as I have another one to do, and this time it's lined black.

Philip
Last edited by Philip Hall on Thu May 24, 2012 7:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Horsetan
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Horsetan » Wed May 23, 2012 10:58 pm

mlgilbert30 wrote:Standard 3MT tanks (82xxx) do indeed have 17 spoke wheels....

The double page spread (pg. 88/89) photo of 82014 in BR Standard Steam in Close up Vol 1 by Bradford and Barton is as good as it gets. ....


There's also a good one in Volume 2 of Edward Talbot's "Pictorial Record of BR Standard Steam Locomotives" - it does show 17 spokes.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Philip Hall
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:21 pm

IMG_9238 adj  small.jpg
Back in May I posted a picture of a green one of these and commented that I found a green engine much easier to weather than a black one. I have now completed a black one and I wonder what those of you on here who made kind comments about the earlier model think of the finish on this? The request was for a reasonably clean engine which to my mind is more difficult than a dirty one, especially as I prefer to use acrylics which dry very fast!

This one is again EM (sorry) with no widening of the frames and no other detailing other than what Bachmann provide - even the screw couplings were useable. I was so impressed with the running that I went out and bought one for myself, although I think I shall widen the frames for that as it will of course be P4.
Philip
Last edited by Philip Hall on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Flymo748
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:05 am

Philip Hall wrote:This one is again EM (sorry) with no widening of the frames and no other detailing other than what Bachmann provide - even the screw couplings were useable. I was so impressed with the running that I went out and bought one for myself, although I think I shall widen the frames for that as it will of course be P4, and fairly clean again.

Hi Philip,

As academic interest (I don't believe that there were any of these allocated to sheds in East Anglia in 1911...) do you feel that there is anything that can be done about the daylight under the bunker?

It is indeed a lovely RTR model. However particularly from the angle of your picture, the lack of "substance" in that area is probably the key pointer that it is a model.

Cheers
Flymo
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Mike Garwood
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Mike Garwood » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:21 am

80078 rear.jpg


Perhaps too much fresh air on the model - cracking stuff btw - but it's still there on the prototype.

Mike

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dcockling
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby dcockling » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:28 am

Hi Mike, I know next to nothing about BR Standard locos, but that looks like four wheels under the bunker in your picture rather than two on Phillip's model.
All the Best
Danny

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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Bulwell Hall » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:42 am

Very well observed Danny!!

Actually it didn't strike me that there was too much daylight under the bunker - these Standards were light in that area. Very nice model Philip - it has polished up a treat!

Gerry

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Mike Garwood » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:36 am

Danny

Just pointing out that there was daylight under the bunker of the standards - as Paul pointed out in his post - as I don't have my own photos of a class3 and I wouldn't want to infringe on anybodies work so I used a suitable alternative...hope you don't mind?

Mike

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dcockling
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby dcockling » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:58 am

Hi Mike,

Sorry I wasn't trying to be awkward or picky, I seriously wouldn't know one type of BR tank engine from another. My railway interest and knowledge declines very rapidly from 1914 onwards, although that doesn't stop me appreciating fine modelling of things I know nothing or next to nothing about.

All the Best
Danny

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LesGros
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby LesGros » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:39 am

dcockling wrote:Hi Mike, I know next to nothing about BR Standard locos, but that looks like four wheels under the bunker in your picture rather than two on Phillip's model.
All the Best
Danny

There is also a slight clue in the lettering on the side of the bunker :D
but like Danny, I too appreciate the fine modelling skill shown on these Fora :thumb
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

Philip Hall
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:06 pm

IMG_9237 adj small.jpg
Thanks for the comments chaps. As far as the 'daylight' thing is concerned, the angle of the picture does draw your attention to the gap above the wheels. I've just looked at my unconverted 00 model, and the gap is not so apparent, but of course with finer EM and P4 flanges it is greater.

Looking at the prototype, there is not quite as much daylight above the rear truck as on a 80XXX 2-6-4T but, as Gerry says, there was a lot of air in that area on the standards. On the model this is perhaps exacerbated by the narrow frames; there was no requirement to widen them on this model nor to reduce the daylight. When I do my P4 one I think I shall widen the frames and this will include the front and rear above the trucks, so there will be the opportunity to reduce the gap to something approaching the proper amount. Bachmann's pony truck could also possibly do with an upper strut, although the spring they put in there gives a reasonable approximation for it.

Attached is a front end view which shows (I hope) that it's not quite so apparent from the other end, although there is still a gap. And when I do the P4 one I'll put up a picture for comparison. Mine will, however, be much dirtier!

Philip

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Russ Elliott » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:26 pm

Philip, first of all, that's a cracking 82015, and secondly, I'm a complete duffer in the weathering stakes so my comments are hopefully constructive although based on comparatively zilch experience. Seems to me that black is the most difficult colour to capture and portray, not so much in its absolute tone on a model, but in the degrees of sheen, and my feeling is that you've achieved too consistent a finish, even for a 'clean' loco. 'Clean' seems to cover a multitude of appearances, and whenever I look a pics of clean locos, there are always 'shinier' areas and 'matter' areas, depending on the coverage of the oily cleaning rags. Boiler tops, cab tops and firebox tops are examples of areas where the brown gunge layers are predominant, if only because they tend to be out of reach of the cleaning rags, and I'm wondering whether the trick is to finish with patches of different ('satin', 'matt') varnishes?

P.S. Like your motionwork colouring, but maybe the wheel spokes could do with a bit of gungy gunmetal Martyn Welching?

Philip Hall
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:23 pm

Russ, I agree about black being the most awkward (especially clean black), and I think you're right that here it's a bit too even and consistent. I have to say that in this case the camera does lie a bit, as it doesn't look so even in reality. The variations in colour are quite subtle and often difficult to capture properly in a photograph. Sometimes I'll put a polishing mop over parts of big flat surfaces and I think with hindsight I should have done that here. However, it's new owner wanted it very clean, as the pictures he had showed them virtually new in this case. The boiler top has quite a coating of muck on it but the light in the picture has taken some of this out.

As for the wheels, these were finished with a rubber black (Tamiya) and gunmetal (Humbrol) spray and buffed up a bit, but again this is less apparent in the picture! The motionwork is (mostly) the blackened Bachmann finish with a bit of chemical blackening thrown in.

Tim Shackleton did some nice work some years ago with different sheens of acrylic coating, but my preferred varnish is Ronseal and I'm wary of using anything spirit based near Bachmann lining and transfers. I've not had much luck with acrylic varnishes, and I don't care for Johnson's Klear either as I have slight reservations about its longevity.

Thanks for the useful comments. Weathering is indeed a black art. (sorry!)

Philip

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Tim V
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Tim V » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:45 pm

You are going to have to wait a couple of years to see another class 3 tank, as they are extinct, but a new one is being built at Bridgnorth.
see http://www.82045.org.uk/82045_history.html
Tim V
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Mike Garwood
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Mike Garwood » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:10 pm

Phillip

You have reservations over Johnsons Klear...have you had any bad experiences or know of any? Looking at other forums modellers would go to serious lengths to obtain a bottle of the old formula. Just curious you mention it's longevity as a sealant. I have a bottle waiting for use but have not been brave enough to use it yet..and now you've mentioned a problem this may be heading towards a well known auction site.

And I love the look of the engine.

And yes Les I can read numbers on the side of engines as well :thumb

Mike

Philip Hall
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:17 pm

Mike,

Thanks for the compliments!

My reservations about Johnson's Klear are partly from reading about another modeller's experiences with it, and I think the problem was that, when used as a floor polish on tiles (its intended use) there was a tendency, over time, for the edges to lift. I have seen this on floor tiles in the past with polishes of this kind. This chap said that as a result, he would not want to take a chance with it on a model. I think this might have been in a letter to MRJ quite a few years ago but I can't remember exactly who wrote it. The other thing is that I used to sell this stuff when I worked for Robert Dyas, and I think this was why people used to have to periodically strip it off and reapply it.

None of this is gospel, only what I've heard (and seen on the occasional floor, but not sure then whether it was Klear or not). What I do know for certain is that there was a period when we couldn't get it, and I think it was being reformulated/rebranded. When it did come into stock again it was cloudy, but maybe once it was applied it turned transparent. I bought a couple of bottles that were left on the shelf, prior to the revamping, and recently I thought I'd try these on a scrap plastic surface. The result was a satin finish with brushmarks, not what I'd been led to believe at all. OK, it might be that it was old stock, and the new stuff would be OK. So it went out of the door.

I know an awful lot of people reckon it's wonderful stuff and swear by it, and I respect their views and experiences, but I don't feel inclined to take the chance. Possibly with my own models it wouldn't be the end of the world to have to refinish something, but I don't want to risk that with a customer's model. The finishes on the RTR models these days are very good, and provided I take care with (say) white spirit on transfers, they are quite robust. I can get quite a shine on a matt finish with a polishing mop in a mini drill, run slow, and even more of a shine with a touch of T - Cut. For finishing varnishes on top of transfers I use either Ronseal polyurethane, or Citadel Purity Seal Matt or Satin, which can be shined up a little with a mop once it's hard.

Philip

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Captain Kernow
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Captain Kernow » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:37 pm

Mike Garwood wrote:Phillip

You have reservations over Johnsons Klear...have you had any bad experiences or know of any? Looking at other forums modellers would go to serious lengths to obtain a bottle of the old formula. Just curious you mention it's longevity as a sealant. I have a bottle waiting for use but have not been brave enough to use it yet..and now you've mentioned a problem this may be heading towards a well known auction site.

I would just say that Klear works a treat as a means of 'gluing' ballast together. I haven't dared use it as a varnish yet, but have a bit of experience of using it for 'PW' purposes. I do find it a bit brittle once set, so the ballast is then sealed with diluted PVA, but the initial use of the Klear (on ballast wetted with IPA) means that very little dry ballast is disturbed upon initial application (sorry for mentioning this in the locomotive section!).
Tim M
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RAO
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby RAO » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:11 pm

I've got a Kemilway chassis for the BR st 2-6-0 76xxx which has the same wheel spacing and size of wheels for the BR st 2-6-2T 82xxx. I built this chassis all as per the instructions back in the 1970's to 00 gauge. I have always been impressed by the linkage etc. But I now want to make it into P4 and add new pony trucks converting it from 76xxx to 82xxx!
Has anyone tried this?
If so can you advice how and the pit falls.
Thanks

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Tim V
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Tim V » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:52 pm

I built a class 3 tank from the Kemilway kit long before the Bachman one came out.

The Kemilway sprung system was basically unusable, so I took the frames and made cut-outs and put standard guides and blocks in. New spacers. The Comet trucks can be used.
Tim V
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Barry Davis
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Barry Davis » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:01 am

Hi, my P4 82xxx is also a Kemilway kit built in October 2000 with a equaling beam type suspension. I purchased this kit at a Scalefour convention in Kennsinton London. At the time of purchase the original wheels were swapped for 5'-3" 16 spoke driving wheels. How ever the photo on pages 88 and 89 of the Bradford Barton book "BR Standard Steam in Close up Volume 1" clearly shows 82014 with 17 spoke driving wheels.
I believe the photo to be correct, not the wheels supplied with my kit in 1981.
Barry

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Horsetan
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Horsetan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:55 pm

Tim V wrote:I built a class 3 tank from the Kemilway kit long before the Bachman one came out.

The Kemilway sprung system was basically unusable, so I took the frames and made cut-outs and put standard guides and blocks in. New spacers. The Comet trucks can be used.


I thought the Kemilway system was based on twin-beam/cradle compensation, rather than springs? In any event, Crownline (subsequently PDK) thought it was good enough to clone for their own kits, many years later.

I thought the Kemilway Class 3 whitemetal castings were a bit iffy, especially in the smokebox area (very raggy on the nearside), so got rid of the two kits I had in favour of the PDK brass one.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Tim V
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Tim V » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:55 pm

It was a very complicated box with spring strips - I used to have the instruction booklet, but looks like that's gone. The castings weren't bad, but the valve gear was very good.
Tim V
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Dave Holt
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Dave Holt » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:19 pm

A bit like this, perhaps?
Kemilway_std_2-6-0_001.JPG

Part built chassis, probably in this state for more than 30 years! I can't remember why it never progressed any further.
If I recall correctly, the phosphor bronze spring strips were more to restrict fore/aft play in the wheel sets rather than any springing.
Dave.

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Horsetan
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Re: Bachmann Std 3 82xxx 2-6-2 Tank

Postby Horsetan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:32 pm

Tim V wrote:It was a very complicated box with spring strips - I used to have the instruction booklet, but looks like that's gone. The castings weren't bad, but the valve gear was very good.


Ah, not the version I had. Mine definitely had the twin-beam/cradle arrangement, as also used on Kemilway's chassis for the Bulleid Light Pacific.
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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