LSWR short horsebox, kit query

essdee
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:47 pm

LSWR short horsebox, kit query

Postby essdee » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:43 am

I hope an LSWR/horsebox specialist can help me, please?

Amidst new Lockdown loco builds, I am re-visiting a number of nearly-completed NPCS kits, to get them finished. A rather nice short LSWR horsebox kit, Derek Munday Sprat & Winkle range, is giving me a headache (apart from the need to drill out 100+ reverse etched 'bolts' on the strapping - what a difference the added wire 'bolts' have made. Still have the buffer beam ones to add).
The far end from the groom compartment features a series of half-etched circular depressions, which do not appear on any drawings or photos I can find. Derek's later, finer, long SDJR horsebox has steps and handrails at this end, but the LSWR version appears to lack such features (both types have control rodding at the groom's end).

What are these circular features, please? Ignore the single large hole, added by me over 25 years ago - not sure why, now; perhaps to affix the vac pipe casting....

Many thanks,

Steve
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zebedeesknees
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:15 pm

Re: LSWR short horsebox, kit query

Postby zebedeesknees » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:16 pm

essdee wrote:I hope an LSWR/horsebox specialist can help me, please?
The far end from the groom compartment features a series of half-etched circular depressions, which do not appear on any drawings or photos I can find.
What are these circular features, please?
Many thanks,
Steve

I had a trawl through the Bartlett site, and entered 'Horse box' in the search box. Under the BR livestock collection there are several vehicles, not all still Horse Boxes, that have the coaching stock electrical connections fitted for lighting(?) These are a similar size and in a similar position. My interest is because I have one of these kits, and even found it! There is a photograph on the diagram/instruction sheet in which those dimples can just be made out, but they are just dimples on the photo.

Looking forward to a better guess..

Ted.

essdee
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:47 pm

Re: LSWR short horsebox, kit query

Postby essdee » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:21 pm

Thanks Ted, an interesting thought.
These short boxes seem quite archaic, but many seem to have lasted into BR era even - photos I have found are late 1940s. Electric, for my ca1923 era, may be problematic, I think.
No way I will be filling them in! I have acquired a second kit, part built, and face doing another 100+ holes/wire bolt additions, to match this. The later MSE Munday S&D long horsebox, ca1990, has made into a much nicer model.
I am hoping someone out there has the Gordon Weddell NPCS book and can give a steer.

Thanks for responding,

Cheers,

Steve

IANATEXTON
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: LSWR short horsebox, kit query

Postby IANATEXTON » Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:29 pm

Steve,
I have just had a look in my Weddell NCPS book.

The vertical holes at the 'horse' end of the vehicle are the fixing points for the internal partitions between the three horse stalls.

They are not present at the 'groom' end of the box, which features a vertical pipe between the vacuum pipe and the brake alarm gear.

I will scan the drawing tomorrow and post in in this thread.
Ian

essdee
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:47 pm

Re: LSWR short horsebox, kit query

Postby essdee » Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:42 pm

Hi Ian,

That's wonderful - thank you! It also now seems flippin' obvious, when I think of how the interior would be laid out........

I can press ahead and finish this little critter now - and eventually its twin. I did make a trial effort at embossing the half-etched 'dimples' in the unattached strapping for the second vehicle -but it looked nowhere like the laboriously created 'bolts' on this first one. So... one day I will do that one the same way.

Thanks again and for the promised drawing,

Cheers,

Steve

IANATEXTON
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: LSWR short horsebox, kit query

Postby IANATEXTON » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:29 pm

Hi Steve

Here as promised is the drawing and some pictures from Gordon Weddell's definitive book on LSWR NCPS - volume 3.

LSWR horsebox photos G Weddell.JPG
LSWR Horsebox drawing G Weddell.JPG


As I indicated, the dimples in the etched end represent the location of bolts which went through the framing, securing both the outer planking and the inner wall. The larger dimples are the locations where there was a form of washer plate on the outside, reflecting the fixing positions for the stall partitions inside.

All this reminds me that I too have a partly completed LSWR horsebox kit. Yours is further advanced than mine, but I reckon that I only put mine down around 10 years ago! You may have inspired me to dig out the box with the bits in and add it to my lockdown completion list.

Is this model for your 1920s SDJR period? Have you decided what brake configuration you are going to use? If you need more info send me a PM and I will extract the relevant info from the text of the book.

Good luck!
Ian

Philip Hall
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: LSWR short horsebox, kit query

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:48 pm

Steve,

I asked Mike King for his comments and he has sent the following:

“Nice job of the horsebox from what I can see. The short LSWR horseboxes had no steps at the "non-groom" end, whereas some (but not all) the longer ones did. Gordon Weddell's drawing (LSWR Carriages Vol 3, page 101) shows two versions of the vehicle - one with nothing at the "non-groom" end, the other with a line of bolts (every third plank) up the end, spaced about 2ft 9in apart and this must be what the Derek Mundy kit shows. The top bolt is just a head, and this is situated as on the kit, above the top moulding and just under the roof line, the next is on the third plank down and again, is just a bolt head. The next is a bolt, but with a square collar under it, which is repeated further down. There should be another plain bolt head half-way between the two, which does not appear on the kit. Presumably, there ought to be an etch for these four square collars (about 5 in sq, maybe) somewhere in the kit? I would guess that there must have been an upright timber inside the van end - perhaps for strengthening purposes? Or maybe this was to do with the Bartrum's patent tethering apparatus that was fitted inside those
horseboxes built from 1899 to 1902. Hope that helps a bit.”

Philip


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