Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

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Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby Venturer » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:40 am

This is the first thread I have started on the Forum - 3 posts in 6 years otherwise. Embarrassingly, I have to start with a public apology to Mark Tatlow and David Knight. Gents, I am sorry for missing your questions on the Scalefour News 215 thread as I very rarely login. I get almost everything as a 'lurking guest' thanks to the admirably enlightened policy of making our deliberations, advice and encouragement available to all. I believe it reflects well on us that we can be seen to embrace others currently outside the Society in this way.

On to practicalities - I have posted this as a 'technique' as it is non-specific in terms of prototype.
The Hornby wheel centres are nicely moulded, but are obviously wider than we require.The bit I failed to take photos of was the reduction of the wheel thickness from the back until it was fractionally less than the tyre width (to avoid fouling pickups), whilst leaving the hub at the full depth for about 3mm from the centre. Think in terms of the moulded-in bushes on Ultrascale conversion wheels.
Yes, the axle ends no longer reach the front face of the wheel, but by using the original full thickness of the bush to grip the splines, I am fairly confident this is secure enough for small locos.
I would certainly not advocate this technique for 6'+ driving wheels.

Please ask more questions so that I can improve the original writing in future!

Best,
Bernie
Nihil sine labore - school motto
The more I practice, the luckier I get - Gary Player et al

David Knight
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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby David Knight » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:26 pm

Hi Bernie,

No apology needed, the Peckett is just one of a long queue of projects on my “To Do Eventually” list so there was no rush for an answer. I do have a few questions though. First off, did you recess the Hornby wheel to accept the rim of the Gibson tyre as they do have the extra bit on the outside face that the Gibson wheel centre sits against. Secondly, the Hornby wheel has a metal insert that the crankpins screws into, did you remove this before turning the back or leave it as part of the hub?

Cheers,

David

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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby Venturer » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:15 pm

Q1. No, I didn't. Yes, I should have. I almost certainly will in future.

Q2. No, I didn't. I think the over-simplified description came about as I thought I had achieved the objectives of avoiding pickups whilst leaving enough plastic 'meat'. I seem to have subconsciously forgotten to mention the middle bit which wasn't getting in the way!

Thanks for the questions. As I said, just the sort of thing to improve future writing.

Bernie

Philip Hall
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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:37 pm

The Gibson wheel driving wheel mouldings don’t have a recess to accept the rim of the tyre, at least all of those I have had here don’t. The thin rim of the tyre just butts up against the centre. If a recess was turned the face of the tyre would be virtually flush with the spokes which wouldn’t look right.

Philip

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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby Venturer » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:26 pm

That was my initial thought, Philip, but they look a bit thick in some of the photos in the original article.
Slight chamfer, perhaps?

Bernie

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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:44 pm

Hi Bernie,

Yes, a chamfer is a good idea. When I skim a wheel centre I always take the sharp edge off the front of the moulding, and clean out the inside of the tyre in case there is any swarf in there. The thinking is that possibly the inside of the tyre might be a fraction less than a sharp right angle, and coupled with a sharp edge on the moulding might prevent a proper seating. It also provides a (admittedly tiny) space for the epoxy I use to secure the tyre (5 minute Devcon).

Philip

David Knight
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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby David Knight » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:13 am

Thanks Bernie and Philip for the added insight. A question, now that the quality of Gibson wheels has gone up the tyres are more reluctant to let go of their centres. Any suggestion for how to pop them off with minimal risk of damage?

Cheers,

David

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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:43 am

I have some old tyres from wrecked wheels, so I choose a diameter slightly bigger than the moulded centre I want to remove. I then place the wheel face up on top of the old tyre and tap sharply with a small hammer and a punch, usually a pin punch used upside down. This spreads the load over the wheel centre more easily. A half inch bolt would do the same.

This is quite brutal, and is either easy or a bit of a job, depending on the fit of course. It might be worth trying Colin at Alan Gibson to see if he would be able to supply tyres (I don’t think so, but worth asking).

The alternative is to order the tyres from Ultrascale, who will supply virtually any diameter to order, as well as allowing you to specify the tyre width - very useful if there is limited clearance behind slide bars. The Ultrascale tyres do not have the recess that the Gibson ones do, so care will be needed when gluing or forcing them on to make sure they are true and in the right place on the centre, but that’s not insurmountable.

Philip

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby Mark Tatlow » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:49 am

Bernie, thanks for this I will ponder it and probably have a go at some point! I have a few similar looking wheels already discarded, so I will have a go on these.

David, Colin Seymour (aka Gibson) does sell his tyres independent from his full wheels. You need them to use his cast brass wheels (which incidentally, I do really like). I assume his full range is available thus, but you would need to speak to him in order to confirm.
Mark Tatlow

David Knight
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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby David Knight » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:12 pm

Mark, Philip, thanks for the advice on the tyres.

Bernie, can you give a bit more detail on the Hatton’s Barclay conversion, please? Are the wheels mounted on splined axles like the Hornby ones, can they be removed with a fine drift punch or are other methods needed and did you use the same technique on the cylinders of splitting and spreading?

Cheers,

David

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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby Venturer » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:12 pm

Slight delay due to checking facts rather than posting rubbish!
Dismantled for photos I failed to take at the time.
The wheels are all metal with hub insulation (like Romford C&W), so need quartering. They are easily removed. When the total wheel thickness is reduced below about 2.3mm, all detail is wiped out. The appearance is unimpressive, but they work well as the proverbial "temporary measure until a better product appears".
The cylinders were split in the same way as the Peckett.
The decoder is a Zimo MX617. It is intentionally tilted upwards for an easier fit in the smokebox. The chassis block is a tight fit in the body. First removal will probably be difficult, so its a good idea to smooth the sides before re-insertion.

Bernie
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David Knight
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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby David Knight » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:55 pm

Thank you Bernie, very useful. It would appear that the pickups are a bit more amenable to bending than the Hornby ones.

Cheers,

David

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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby davebradwell » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:55 pm

I've always thought the Barclay a missed opportunity due to the lack of daylight under the boiler but looking at you pictures do you think it might it be possible for me to cut through and correct this if I bought one or are there vital organs contained therein? I see there could be an odd gear near the firebox but this may not be terminal. Considering Bachmann introduced their fully see-through tiny WD 4-6-0T the same month you'll understand my disappointment. Your wheels look fine and far better than inappropriate replacements.

DaveB

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Re: Wheels for Peckett B2 conversion (and others)

Postby Venturer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:27 pm

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The rather poor photo shows the redismantled model balancing upside down on a torch! Daylight can be seen just to the right of dead centre, i.e no hidden gears.
Hattons seem to be quick learners and quite possibly regret the compromise.
The wheels look better for the roughly pencillled shadow "tyres".
It's convinced me to redo a better pencil job and improve the centres.
Thanks for the supportive comments, Dave.


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