Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Le Corbusier » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:34 pm

just catching up here .... marvellous set of evocative photos .... thanks for sharing :thumb
Tim Lee

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:37 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:just catching up here .... marvellous set of evocative photos .... thanks for sharing :thumb


Many thanks. Somehow, black and white photos seem to represent the days of steam much more appropriately than colour!

Here's anther gloriously evocative photo, courtesy Mick Nicholson, of a J39 held by signals in Hessle Station on the up slow line. This was the place where we spent our Saturdays and many school holiday days just watching the trains and there were so many, from so many different places.

This country station was and still is some four or five miles from Hull's centre, situated on the main line to Selby, Doncaster and all points beyond. Once it was a four track main line, with semaphore signalling, gas lighting and the assortment of buildings which North Eastern stations exhibited. A working goods yard and station staff all contributed to that timeless feel of this place.

Now, of course, the layout is rationalised to two track. The goods yard, semaphore signals and signal box are gone and the station is unmanned and sadly neglected, though still operational.

Anyway, a photo of a wet winter's day in a different time.

Cheers

Mike
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Horsetan
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Horsetan » Sat May 04, 2019 11:41 am

iak wrote:Ooop, better get the cash flow sorted then... :?


Kit's arrived!

Just need to sort out HL hornblocks, Ultrascales and GS sprung buffers for it.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:17 am

I haven't posted anything to this or the signal thread for a few weeks as I have been preoccupied with producing some diagramatic instructions for the London Road Models B16/1 kit. As that job is now largely complete, then I'm now back into some building.

Before I post any pictures of the current building projects, here's a photo of some of the tank locos now around on Hessle Haven. Since this photo was taken, the tank engine fleet has increased by another two J72's, a further two J77's, an N10 and another A6 4-6-2 tank, with another T1 4-8-0 tank also in the paint shop.

As 'something completely different', some years ago, while recovering from illness, I built some aircraft models; all of WWII prototypes. So here's a picture of a Halifax; the picture simply called 'Waiting for Dusk'.

Cheers

Mike
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Crepello
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby Crepello » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:22 pm

Horsetan wrote:
Horsetan wrote:I wonder if the Bradwell chassis would work under the later Hornby body?
I've never seen a Hornby B1 come up for spares, not even from the eBay RTR dismantler who used to offer some very broken Hornby-China engines.


Since mention has been made earlier in this thread of a possible Hornby equivalent of the Bradwell/Bachmann hybrid B1, I thought this might be the place to leave the following observations.

I have now managed to track down and acquire a Hornby B1 spare loco body. An evening with a vernier, Darlington’s Frame Plan and NBL’s Pipe & Rod drawing reveals the following deviations on the model relative to prototype dimensions. I have stated them in equivalent prototype units.

Footplate lengths, three sections individually:
Rear dropped section: error 0
Centre raised section: error +3/8”
Front dropped section: error +1 1/8”

The small discrepancies could arise including the amounts of the slight plate overhangs of the vertical surfaces, while not actually reproducing them.

Footplate relative heights:
Centre - Rear sections: error +2 1/2”
Centre - Front sections: error +2 1/4”
Front footstep - Front sect.: error +2”
Front platform - Front sect.: error 0
Boiler c/l - Front section: error 0
Boiler c/l - Cabside window: error 0
Cabside window - Rear section: error +1/2”

The fractions probably indicate as much about my measuring technique as Hornby’s design intentions.

Front section widths:
Over mainframes: error -2 1/4”

This means the outside face of Hornby’s frames aligns with the inner face of the prototype. It also makes the outer footplate sections too wide, which does visually compensate for their excess height.

So Dave Bradwell’s impression about the frontal aspect of the Hornby model, conveyed to me at a Scaleforum, was correct. However I believe it is a considered compromise rather than a blunder which is at work here. There is a mere 3/4” clearance between the footplate valance angle and driving wheel tread on the prototype, while the model has to fill in behind this valance for strength. Hence a perceived need to raise the footplate a scale 2 1/2” or so to clear r-t-r standard wheels. This also brought the footplate close enough to the correctly-pitched boiler to enable them to be united for strength.

The detailing is lovely though!

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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby davebradwell » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:06 am

It just so happens that I'm working on my Hornby B1 body at the moment. Replica managed to get the wheels in their B1 with the bottom face of the platform (actually the valence edge) at the correct height but it was over scale thickness so the top was high. As a result I produced a correct chassis with scale motion bracket. The Hornby body has the platform and valence nearer scale thickness but the whole thing is lifted so there's a gap to fill above the bracket. I think I compromised the other heights so that a 0.25 or 0.3mm spacer was sufficient but the front buffer height isn't correct. The platform is a little wide giving a step out from the motion bracket rather than being flush.

It's frustrating how these small errors can affect the result but I do agree it looks a fine thing and I've reduced the boiler bands and substituted a 0.9 wire ejector pipe on the side of the boiler. There were some unpleasant tooling marks around 10 to 2 on the boiler which I've managed to reduce. Current problem is the tender platform which sags, leaving a gap below the body towards the front and I've so much stuff in there that I haven't yet found places for fixing screws. Buffers are rather close together. Star feature of the tender is the 2mm wide slots moulded behind the axleboxes so it can be sprung like a wagon with little plates. It will become Sassaby so has lost the rather neat electric lighting and chunky speedo brkt.

DaveB

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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:17 am

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1


It's some time since I posted anything regarding the building of my locomotives. This largely due to finishing a set of diagrammatic instructions for the LRM B16/1 kit. Those instructions are now done but, in the course of doing them, I had to part build another of these kits as I had forgotten some of the sequence of assembly which I adopted on the first build. I also needed to test the new etches which LRM have added to the kit.

Anyway, as a result of this, I now have another part built B16/1; this one with the LNER designed 49a boiler and the plain splasher fronts which were a feature of the last fifteen of this class which were built by the LNER. In fact, the LNER built thirty two of the seventy strong class from January 1923 - January 1924.

So this is the current state of the model. The further progress of this build I will cover on here as it progresses. The second photo is the prototype for this model, photographed at Hull Dairycoates shed sometime before December 1951, when it received a general overhaul, reversion to an original pattern 49 boiler and repaint.

I won't be following the photo of the prototype in building the model with a very bent front footplate, even though by this time (1950) many of the B16's exhibited this same deformation of the front footplate. I remember when I built the three G5's, looking at prototype photos of these locos in the 1950's and seeing almost everyone with a bowed footplate. Again, not reproduced on the models.

Cheers

Mike
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Re: Some North Eastern Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:57 pm

PeteT wrote:I enjoyed following the build on RMW, and look forward to it being available.

Am I right in thinking that the precise driving wheel isn't available, but Ultrascale have an option 1 spoke out?

Its just a shame about the prototypes cab side windows - as otherwise it's a very graceful machine!


This posting was made, by PeteT, in October 2018 and I refer to it because the kit is now available. Details of prices are covered in the latest issue of the Scalefour News.

Cheers

Mike

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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:25 pm

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

So, having come thus far, on this second B16/1, then perhaps I'll go a little further before returning to the B1 chassis.

The cab sides and front are a single etching so before I fold this etching, some of the cab detailing can be added. The window sliders are not supplied in the kit, though the sliding window frames are. So a fairly simple task to build the window slides to accommodate the windows; I used plasticard strip for this with two layers of .010" strip making up the slider. The inner layer is .030" (0.75 mm) wide; the outer layer is .050" (1.25 mm) wide providing a .020" housing at the top and bottom of the sliders. The sliding windows, shown in the photos, are not fixed but merely placed there to check that they slide!

The cab rear beading and window beading is held in place with tweezers and soldered only from the open edges, relying on capillary action to take the solder between the parts. This prevents any solder from straying onto the cab side sheets or front. The soldered edges can then be easily cleaned up with very fine files, resulting in a very clean finished job.

I've also taken the opportunity of adding the handrail stanchions while the cab etch is flat as the parts of the stanchions protruding into the cab need to be filed flush. I always glue these stanchions in place, using superglue, as this allows for some adjustment of the handrail stanchion and I always line the stanchions up using a piece of 0.4 mm wire, as shown in one of the photos.

These photos also show how the firebox actually passes through the cab front to protrude some 3 mm into the cab. This does necessitate getting the firebox profile exactly matching the profile of that cut out to prevent the cab front deforming or there being gaps when the firebox is added.

Cheers

Mike
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:56 pm

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

And now for one of those 'moments of truth'!

Does the firebox pass through the cab without any gaps - is the firebox profile correct, while allowing both of the cab sides to sit parallel and squarely on the footplate without any distortion, does the boiler sit absolutely parallel to the footplate and with no gaps between the firebox and the middle and rear splashers?

If the answers to this 'compound' question are all yes, with nothing yet fixed, then all is well to proceed!

The smokebox door is also not yet fixed so is merely resting within the smokebox front. And yes, the brass has been polished with the fibre brush. I get through a lot of fibre brush refills in the course of a build!!

One thing I should mention is that the boiler bands are not the ones supplied in the kit. These are from Arthur Kimber and are etched from .004" nickel silver and then thinned down, with emery paper, to around .002 prior to being soldered to the boiler. These bands are available from North Eastern Kits (see small suppliers for the address) as an individual item.

Now it begins to look like a B16/1.

Cheers

Mike
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Dave Holt
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Dave Holt » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:42 pm

Mike,
Looks to be a well produced kit and turning into a very nice build.
With regard to glass fibre brushes, how do you avoid getting the bristle splinters in your fingers? Whenever I use one, I'm afflicted with painful slinters for days after, even though I try to sweep them off the work tray straight away.
Dave.

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:34 pm

Dave Holt wrote:Mike,
Looks to be a well produced kit and turning into a very nice build.
With regard to glass fibre brushes, how do you avoid getting the bristle splinters in your fingers? Whenever I use one, I'm afflicted with painful slinters for days after, even though I try to sweep them off the work tray straight away.
Dave.


Dave,

I'm not entirely sure that I do avoid getting the bristle splinters in my fingers! When I was a kid (ten, eleven, twelve) I grew cactus plants in my father's green house. Some of these had very fine though very sharp hairs, much like the fibre brush and I really could feel them if they crept into the finger joints. So, from an early age, I have subjected my fingers to all sorts of mistreatment. With the fibre brush I don't notice any bristle splinters, so perhaps age, handling of hot metal, etc. has inured them, though I haven't lost any dexterity - at least not yet!

As ever Dave, thanks for the kind words. The kit is now thirty years old so has stood the test of time very well.

Cheers

Mike
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:57 am

I guess one of my 'hobby horses' with regard to these modelling websites, is the use of photographs.

All of my model photographs are posed; I have a permanently set up table, with a piece of coloured card curved to 90 degrees as the background. The models are lit with a daylight lamp and I use macro mode, with a focal length down to around 9", on an old Olympus Camedia camera. This camera produces .jpg files sufficiently small to fall within the upload limits of all of the modelling websites and which will upload in seconds.

The black and white photos, which Mick Nicholson provides, have all undergone extensive cleaning up, by Mick. He has become very skilled at this process as many of them are foxed and faded and often they require the removal of a stray telegraph pole or shed lamp with some reorientation to straighten up the image also being required.

Both Mick and myself feel that these old black and white photos must be preserved as, for many locations and times, these are all we have to serve as reminders of the railway we knew and loved. They can never be taken ever again.

So here are a couple of such photos of the B16/3 Thompson (top photo) and B16/2 Gresley (lower photo) rebuilds of the B16/1.

Cheers

Mike
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:36 am

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

Well it's been a little while since last I posted to this thread, during which time I have decided to move house - though only half a mile away from the current abode - and have embarked on the packing.

I guess, like all house movers, I am stunned at the amount of 'stuff' which I've accumulated over the seven years at this address. Now I do a bit of cooking both for myself and for me and my lady partner. This isn't 'cordon bleu' or MasterChef The Professionals so why, I ask myself, have I accumulated enough pots and pans to prepare a banquet in a moderately sized medieval castle? Still, the local charity shop has been the grateful recipient of many of them!!

Anyway, I digress, so back to the B16/1. The objective for this second build was to prove some additional etches made to this kit; additional because the original artwork is no longer available so cannot be modified.

So progress over the last few weeks :-

The mainframes have been assembled with no unusual features or issues. I use a chassis jig for this operation using the assembled coupling rods as the datum for the settings of the chassis jig.

The cylinders have also been assembled. Here I do depart from the norm in that the cylinder wrappers, which are intended to be formed n a single piece, I split into two pieces. The circular pieces are formed around a piece of rod of the appropriate diameter, just using finger pressure until the correct diameter is reached. These can then be soldered to the front and rear cylinder etched formers. The straight portion of the cylinder wrapper- adjacent to the valance - is cut separately and then one edge feathered to meet the circular portion before soldering.

This gives a much crisper transition between the circular and the straight sections of the cylinder wrapper. Hopefully the accompanying photograph illustrates this.

The piston tail rods, present on the cylinder front castings, have been shortened and thinned though they have been retained as this B16/1 (61462) retained them well into BR days.

The first photo shows the alignment of the cylinder formers being checked by using a 0.9 mm brass rod, which should pass through the centre of the driven axle if the cylinders are correctly inclined. This prior to adding the cylinder wrappers.

The second photo shows the wheeled chassis with the running plate and cab assembly added.

The third photo shows build 2 alongside build 1. You might notice that build 1 is still unpainted! This is simply because I suspected that I would have to check the fit of build 2 against the corresponding stage and sub-assembly of build 1, so this model is kept in a de-humified cupboard to minimise tarnishing. On both models, the major sub-assemblies - boilers, cabs, footplates, etc. are not yet fixed - merely resting each on another - to assist in this cross checking.

More postings to come!!

Both finished models will be painted together.

Cheers

Mike
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:12 am

In one of the photos above - a B16/2 passing under a signal bridge - it might be of interest to see this; a model of that same signal bridge. I know it's in the wrong section but photos like the one above were the inspiration for this model, which was the fourth signal model that I built after a couple of brackets and a cantilevered gantry.

The lattice girder on this, as on all of the models, is scratch built from brass 0.8 mm and 1.0 mm 'L' angle and .085 mm x .005" nickel silver strip. And I really did, eventually, manage to curve that 'L' angle brass section, though the process is described on t'other thread.

N.B. The site's spell checker didn't like t'other, awarding me a red wavy line!!

Cheers

Mike
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:50 am

Any regular readers of this thread (are there any regulars?) will know that one of my great passions is those black and white photos of the railway, as it was in days gone by and especially those taken inside the great locomotive sheds. These photos do more than record a scene or a place, they speak eloquently of their time and of a railway environment which has now passed into history.

So here's another couple of those photos, taken on bright days - though twenty years apart - inside Hull Dairycoates shed and taken from almost identical viewpoints. The first photo is the scene in 1936 - that LMS Black 5 must be nearly new; the second is sometime before the 1956 rebuilding of the main shed building.

With these great machines resting almost silently, light and shade everywhere. With the smoke drifting in the roof space, just gently diffusing the sunlight and, as ever in these shots, with the principal subjects being the locos. As always, the photos are courtesy Mick Nicholson.

Cheers

Mike
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dal-t
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby dal-t » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:51 am

Are there any regular readers? I'd say so, always a delight (even though its not 'my' railway), and none of that bickering some other threads seem so prone to. Keep 'em coming, please - and good luck with the house move, in my experience half a mile (or at least a few miles) can be as disruptive as 1,000km (possibly more so, if you end up ferrying the cats yourself rather than trusting them to a carrier). Love the signal bridge, by the way, really don't care if that's on the 'wrong' thread.
David L-T

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Horsetan
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Horsetan » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:48 am

How's the B1 coming along?
That would be an ecumenical matter.

DougN
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby DougN » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:12 pm

Another Regular here. I am enjoying all you threads! The NER area I. The LNER period is my interest so I do read for future reference. I have a Dave Bradwell J39 which is nearing completion and a Finney V2 which I am doing things on so you modelling and mine align. Looking above is encouraging me to get out of bed and do more work on the V2! :thumb
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:38 am

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

Firstly, thanks to those contributors who answered my question. And you will certainly not find any bickering, on this thread, from me. Life really is too short for that. I just consider it a great privilege to be able to post to sites like this and am gratified that folk find the content interesting. In response to Ivan's (Horsetan) question, the B1(s) will resume just as soon as the B16/1's are done - perhaps just after Christmas. My house move (still not yet completed) will, inevitably, interfere with the modelling!

Anyway, I'll continue to post and try and make the thread(s) as interesting as possible. All I would say is, that in my experience, the incorporation of as many photos as possible - even if they are sometimes slightly (or even completely) off topic - does make any thread far more interesting! In my own case I do pose the models on a prepared background for the photos; I light them with a daylight lamp and I use an old Camedia Olympus 'point and click', which produces images of a manageable digital size (usually < 1 mb) for the photos. I do have a Canon EOS SLR for other photographic work but this does produce very large digital images, typically 7 - 14 mb.

So, to the B16/1! Next stage was the adjusting and assembly of the motion. The slide bar and crosshead castings are beautifully cast but must, inevitably, be adjusted to slide freely. In addition, the piston rods are far too long and must be cut to size and the rear cylinder casting is too thin and needs augmenting, at least it does by reference to the Isinglass drawing.

The cylinder rear casting was thickened by adding a disc of .030" plasticard, shaped to the precise diameter of the casting, on the plain side of the casting. This does mean that the whole cylinder rear/slidebar assembly is stuck to, rather than soldered to, the rear cylinder former. However, the rear ends of the slide bars are soldered very securely to the motion plate, so preventing any movement of the slidebar assembly in operation. The whole assembly is then lubricated with clock oil - or, often, with olive oil.

The photo of one set of motion/slide bars does represent around four hours of very careful filing, straightening and checking until a totally free running assembly is achieved.

The second photo is simply the current state of this second B16/1 build and does serve (if I need it) as encouragement to proceed to completion!!

Now it really does begin to look like a B16/1 though quite a lot still to do!

Cheers

Mike
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:18 pm

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

I actually started this thread with this photograph, now just over a year ago. Since then the thread has, amazingly, garnered over twenty thousand views (perhaps not so surprising if I've done 19,000 of them!) and has occasioned the odd comment or two.

So, for the second of my B16/1 builds this is the target. Once reached, then both models will be finally detailed and painted and will remind me of those Sunday excursions to the coast, of the mid and late 1950's - A day by the sea and a ride on the train.

I've now added the B16/2 and B16/3 to the ever growing list of what I want to build. However, I'm not actually sure if fate has added any more years to my 'allotted span' to accommodate this ever growing list, or how much longer I'll retain the necessary faculties to be able to do this? But while I can, I will.

Cheers

Mike
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:50 pm

Mike, I also avidly follow your entries in this thread and very much enjoy both the photos and exoplanetary text. Very much looking forward to the continuation of the B1 saga as they are much more to my taste in prototypes and, also, I've got one to do myself.
I can sympathise with the chore of filing out slide bars and cross heads to give a smooth, sliding fit. Those on my Brassmasters Black 5 are of a 4 layer, fold-up etched design and take a great deal of filing to get the cast cross heads in.
As a matter of interest, on the thickened rear cylinder cover, what is the proportion of casting to plastic card?
Dave.

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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby DougN » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:02 am

Mike, I am glad that it takes you as long as I do (plus more but my excuse is I work full time) to build a kit. It shows that we all have too many kits on the go at any one time. Some start and finish very quickly others... it has been years!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:40 am

Dave Holt wrote:Mike, I also avidly follow your entries in this thread and very much enjoy both the photos and exoplanetary text. Very much looking forward to the continuation of the B1 saga as they are much more to my taste in prototypes and, also, I've got one to do myself.
I can sympathise with the chore of filing out slide bars and cross heads to give a smooth, sliding fit. Those on my Brassmasters Black 5 are of a 4 layer, fold-up etched design and take a great deal of filing to get the cast cross heads in.
As a matter of interest, on the thickened rear cylinder cover, what is the proportion of casting to plastic card?
Dave.


Opting for cast or etched slide bars when designing a kit comes down, in my experience, to a number of factors. N/S castings can suffer from a small amount of distortion while cooling or being removed from the mould, parting lines, etc. and so will invariably need fettling. Slide bars built up from etchings will need filing to remove the etch cusp. So the designer needs to pick the best options for the model in question.

Fortunately for me, the LNWR didn't have many locos with outside pistons or valve gear but the Teutonic with outside Joy gear proved an interesting challenge. Based on experience designing the Jubilee and Lady of the Lake kits, I opted for etched slide bars, with cast cross head, piston front and rear castings but with 1.0mm n/s rod for the piston shaft owing to its length.

The valve gear can be assembled to work, an interesting sight if anyone fancies a bit of a challenge.


Frames RH 34R.JPG
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mikemeg
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Re: Some North Eastern & LNER Locomotive Builds

Postby mikemeg » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:54 pm

DougN wrote:Mike, I am glad that it takes you as long as I do (plus more but my excuse is I work full time) to build a kit. It shows that we all have too many kits on the go at any one time. Some start and finish very quickly others... it has been years!


Doug,

Yes a combination of factors has led to this one taking quite a time. Last year I built three G5's in just over four months; this one has been on the go for almost a year. Originally I intended only to prove the additional etches, done by LRM. That done, it then seemed silly not to progress this build to completion, which was not the original intention. However the provision of a second complete kit 'sealed the deal', hence the full build.

The need to 'put the garden to bed' for the winter and the decision to move house, with all of the attendant packing, disposing of unwanted/not needed stuff has also impacted the modelling time. Well those are the excuses.

I will have a workshop and layout space in the new house so will then have absolutely no excuses for slow progress.

Cheers

Mike


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