Scaleforum 2019

Announcements, recommendations, visit reports etc. Discussion of the Society's own shows.
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PeteT
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby PeteT » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:02 pm

David Thorpe wrote:
Rod Cameron wrote:
David Thorpe wrote:Isn't it at least worth a try, perhaps starting at Scalefour North next year? If that happens I might actually go.

This is getting a bit surreal. Are you saying that your decision to go or not go is based on people wearing name badges?

Yes. It played a major part in my decision not to go to Scalefour North this year, the first I've missed for the last seven years.
Bluntly, I'm sick and tired of undertaking a 600 mile round trip merely to end up wandering around the show run by the society of which I am a fully paid up member not knowing who anyone is.


David, I see from the above quote you omitted the pertinent point Rod made, of:

I know, you could volunteer to man the badges desk!


For a start, the current team no doubt have enough on in hosting and running the show. Secondly, you have championed the concept on and off on the forum for some time - so who better to run with it? Also, as a win-win, it will mean those who do sign up will naturally come to you and tell you who they are.

I have mixed feelings about them - partially as Noel said it needs a good number to sign up without it making those who do feel self conscience. Secondly, as has been mentioned, we also run the show very much as a public event - and the last thing we want to do is alienate the public (though I do take your point that we shouldn't alienate current members either!). Difficult balance to get right.

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David B
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David B » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:07 pm

I have found over the past few years that becoming involved in exhibitions, in my case through the Missenden and Modelu stands and a couple of times on the Scalefour stand, I have gott to know many people in the trade, on layouts and general visitors. I have also done some demonstrating. Now, whenever I go to a show, I invariably spend a lot of time meeting friends, chatting and socialising. I also get to know more of what is going on in the hobby.

I would urge more members to get involved at shows and exhibitions. You will get lots out of it.

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dcockling
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby dcockling » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:03 pm

It strikes me that a badge is a rather passive tool in attempting to increase the social interaction that David is missing out on and certainly isn’t going to address the problem of “a lonely takeaway in your hotel room after the show.”

I appreciate that some people are more reserved or shy than others, but none of us were born knowing anyone; so at the risk of causing offence, I ask: is it not incumbent on each of us to make some effort on our own behalf and to reach out to others and do something proactive to make want we want to happen actually happen? In this respect I would particularly commend the efforts of Chris Foren and point to what he is doing as a good example of the sort of thing I mean.

On a personal basis, I have no idea whether David likes a drink or not and whereas a night in a pub may be bliss for some it may be a nightmare for others. I don’t know if David likes curry either, the Bristol Area Group certainly do, but I don’t touch it, so as much as I like them, I wouldn’t be planning to join them for a meal after a show.

If David wants to come to Scalefour North for example and stay over and not be stuck on his own then there a number of options. Volunteering to work at the show is always a possibility, but not essential. Why not post on here and ask who else is staying over and asking them if they’d like to meet socially on the Saturday evening. Failing that have a look at what layouts are appearing and if being owned/operated by an Area Group ask if you can join them in the evening. They don’t have to live near you or come from Scotland surely? Where I come from or where I live doesn't have anything to do with who I know, I have Scalefour Society friends and acquaintances all over the country and indeed from the other side of the world. Our Society is an International Society.

I do object though to the assertion that "the show might properly be perceived as cliquey" it is a shame if that is how David feels, but as a clique is: "a small close-knit group of people who do not readily allow others to join them." then I am not aware of any cliques at Scaleforum or Scalefour North and I am confident, from my own experience that if anyone reaches out to other members they will respond in kind.

All the Best
Danny

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:18 pm

Thanks Danny, that's a reasonable reply. While I very much appreciate the suggestions you make for evening entertainment, it doesn't address the situation at the show itself where, at least in my case, I tend to enter as a stranger, pass through as a stranger, and leave as a stranger. If people were to wear name badges that hopefully wouldn't happen - all being well I'd see people whose names I would recognise from this forum, or the News, and quite possibly some chat or discussion could ensue. The reluctance of so many people to enable that for me and others in a similar position is what leads me to use the word clique - I still don't understand what reasonable objection any society member could have to wearing a name badge at their society show, but there we are. However It's become pretty obvious that name badges are unlikely to have sufficient support to work as I had hoped so I shan't continue to pester. I do have to say that I'm a bit disappointed with some of the negativity shown, and it might have been interesting to have heard from some newcomers to the Society but few if any seem to post here. I don't know whether I'll come to Scalefour North next year or not.

DT
Last edited by David Thorpe on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LesGros
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby LesGros » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:47 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:
Just imagine poor attendees strolling around the exhibition, proudly displaying their name badges, only to find that no one spoke to them all day. ;)

:lol:
LesG

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jim s-w
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby jim s-w » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:43 am

I have to admit I’m still somewhat bemused by all this.

We are a society that, allegedly, promotes the pinnacle of 4mm scale modelling and yet members can’t figure out how to make themselves a name badge and want the society to do it for them? Really?

David, can I ask, when you go to shows do you wear a name badge? Sadly if someone wants an excuse to not go they will find one but let’s be honest here, it’s a bit feeble to put it all on name badges.

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David B
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David B » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:24 am

jim s-w wrote:David, can I ask, when you go to shows do you wear a name badge?


Which 'David', Jim - David B or David T?

If David B, then usually yes, Jim, but it does depend on why I am at a show. I feel as a representative of something it is important for people to know with whom they are dealing. It would be helpful if more traders wore badges; many layouts do have badges for their operators. However, I can find it difficult to make progress round a show and sometimes take my badge off when not on a stand. Many a time, when wearing a badge and taking a break from a stand, I have not managed to get a drink or barely managed to make it to the loo before I have to be back on duty. As a result, I can see very little of a show and some people I would have liked to spend time chatting with or get to see, I can't.

Having got to know so many people over the past few years (and they recognising me), if I go as a punter I do not wear a name badge. I can still find it difficult to get round a show but at least I can control a bit better the time I spend chatting and usually get see those I want to see.

There is an annual RMWeb day in Taunton where people attending are asked to wear a badge with their web name on it. Some names are familiar on RMWeb but I wouldn't know them from Adam anywhere else nor, still, do I know their real names. I don't see the purpose of having an obscure nom de plume on a forum. Why do people feel the need to hide? At least on the Scalefour Forum it is possible to find someone's real name by clicking on their Forum name, something that can't be done on RMWeb.

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Paul Townsend » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:59 am

Another way of getting to know more bods at Scaleforum is to change your Avatar here to a mug shot.

If you have said something positive and memorable here then bods will want to talk to you and can now seek you out.

Works for me!

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David Thorpe » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:11 am

jim s-w wrote:David, can I ask, when you go to shows do you wear a name badge? Sadly if someone wants an excuse to not go they will find one but let’s be honest here, it’s a bit feeble to put it all on name badges.


If it's me, yes, I've worn one of the sticky white labels and subsequently a plastic badge supplied by the society. As far as the latter is concerned I was a bit suprised on one such occasion to read in a show guide that if any visitor had any queries they should consult one of the committee members, all of whom would be recognisable as they would be wearing name badges, the inference being that no-one else would be. I think I removed my badge on reading that!

As for an excuse not to go, there are a number of reasons why I don't find the coming Scaleforum worth the travel and expense that would be involved. I've seen several of the layouts, one at least several times, and there does seem to be a preponderance of modern freight-only branches - I'm sure some people like these but they're not my cup of tea. In fact, I'm not really a great one for watching layouts. You can after all see layouts, including some extremely good ones, at model railway shows all over the country; they may not be P4, but for me the gauge isn't of primary importance when watching a layout - it's the atmosphere and the operation that I find most appealing. The majority of layouts I'll give up watching after five minutes or so, many less than that. The ones that hold my attention are those that have an operational purpose to them that is made clear to the spectator, usually by a screen, or a flip board, or something similar.

As for demonstrations, I've been making my own trackwork for years, have built locos that run successfully on CSB springing, can and do use an RSU, and have built quite a few etched brass coach kits. So while I wouldn't for a moment suggest that there's nothing new I can learn, you may nevertheless appreciate why I feel that demonstrations on these topics don't really justify a round journey of over 1000 miles and its associated expense. These factors are of course personal to me - I'm sure that many others will enjoy the layouts and find the demonstrations exptremely useful. And there is of course an excellent selection of traders there, but but I don't actually need anything much at the moment, being involved in several projects for which I have everything I require. And if I don't, I just pick up the phone or go online and the items I want will usually be delivered within a few days. And yes, the social side, or its absence, is another factor to which can also be added the fact that the older I get, the more reluctant I am to travel any great distance.

Scalefour North next year? I'll look at it in exactly the same way.

DT

Enigma
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Enigma » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:59 am

David T., if you have all the skills that you profess to have (and I don't doubt you) then why not offer yourself as a demonstrator at one of the society's events? In this way you will -

a - meet lots of interesting people
b - have your expenses paid
c - wear a badge for a good reason

I discovered that the initial offers of demonstrating often come from the demonstrator himself and, after that, the process can snowball.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:02 am

Given that some posts on the recent matter of badges, I can confirm that in the last two years badges - for those who have requested them, have been available from the Society stand located just a short distance inside the hall. The same will apply this year. That at lease will remove any real or perceived difficulty of collecting them from the pay desk. It will also allow people to meet Steve Carter, our membership secretary which has got to be A GOOD THING. :D :D , or perhaps one of the other committee members who may be on the Society stand at the time.

Terry Bendall

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David Thorpe » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:27 am

Enigma wrote:David T., if you have all the skills that you profess to have (and I don't doubt you) then why not offer yourself as a demonstrator at one of the society's events?


Nice of you to suggest it! However, it's a case of Jack of All Trades and Master of None, I'm afraid, although I am quite a good bodger. Also, I'm a very slow worker and would probably spend half the show thinking about what I was going to do before I even got started (and then more thought would have to be expended on how to do actually it)!

If anyone was thinking ahead as to demonstrations I really would like to see, painting and especially weathering would come top of the list, followed by scenic work and buildings - there was some really good stuff on the latter at the Linlithgow Skills day.

DT

Enigma
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Enigma » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:53 am

David Thorpe wrote:
Enigma wrote:David T., if you have all the skills that you profess to have (and I don't doubt you) then why not offer yourself as a demonstrator at one of the society's events?


Nice of you to suggest it! However, it's a case of Jack of All Trades and Master of None, I'm afraid, although I am quite a good bodger. Also, I'm a very slow worker and would probably spend half the show thinking about what I was going to do before I even got started (and then more thought would have to be expended on how to do actually it)!

If anyone was thinking ahead as to demonstrations I really would like to see, painting and especially weathering would come top of the list, followed by scenic work and buildings - there was some really good stuff on the latter at the Linlithgow Skills day.

DT


You don't actually have to DO anything! I never do. TBH, you will never get the chance as you will (or should) be talking most of the time. If a demonstrator is spending all his/her time with their head down modelling then IMHO, they're not doing it right. You've got to connect with people and all you need to show and discuss is how you DID things and how you would/could tackle projects/problems that people come to you about. Think about it. As they say on the telly, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

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jim s-w
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby jim s-w » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:15 pm

Enigma wrote:
If a demonstrator is spending all his/her time with their head down modelling then IMHO, they're not doing it right.


Couldn’t agree more

Jim

martin goodall
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby martin goodall » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:22 pm

I have never yet done any actual modelling at a show when demonstrating.

I just spend the whole time talking, explaining and answering questions.

If you're a demonstrator, then that's what you're there for.

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PeteT
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby PeteT » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:29 pm

Paul Townsend wrote:Another way of getting to know more bods at Scaleforum is to change your Avatar here to a mug shot.

If you have said something positive and memorable here then bods will want to talk to you and can now seek you out.

Works for me!


Yes, I do see this as a good idea - & so have added one accordingly!

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dcockling
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby dcockling » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:58 pm

Tim V wrote:There was a campaign (by Danny I think it was - pre forum) to publish pictures of members of the society so we would recognise other members. Some people took advantage of this.


I've just checked my back-up hard-drive and I still have them. They were of members of Bill Bedford's e-list, not specifically Scalefour Society members and hosted on my old website.

All the Best
Danny

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David B
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David B » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:12 pm

I am very much looking forward to demonstrating at Scaleforum in September, and getting absolutely nothing done! :)

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dcockling
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby dcockling » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:23 pm

Noel wrote: It appears that this is one of those matters where members have 'voted with their feet';


Just to clarify, name badges for visitors to Scaleforum (and this topic is supposed to be about this year's Scaleforum) have been available to order by members and non-members when purchasing an advance ticket through our website since 2012 (the last one at Leatherhead). This may well have been and probably was in response to David Thorpe's suggestions.

This facility is something that I run. All advance ticket orders come to me as e-mails, I keep track of them and I produce all of the badges that are ordered. I also oversee the early admissions at Scaleforum, collect the e-tickets, exchanging them for admission tickets and dishing out the badges, usually with the assistance of Gavin and Helen Clark. I then check the e-tickets against my sales list and feed back to Terry and Treasurer Chris how many have been sold. People who don't come in to the show early may collect their badges from the Society stand once they have arrived, that is if they remember, as there have always been some badges that aren't collected.

The advantage of pre-printed badges is that they are all to the same format and as they are printed they are legible. The visitor badges are different from Exhibitor/Demonstrator/Steward/ etc badges. I have tried to make sure that badges and their collection do not get in the way of the main entry points nor stop or hinder others trying to enter the show.

For all the time that I was membership secretary I also always took with me to all the shows that I attended, not just Society ones, a small supply of blank badges and a suitable marker pen, in case anyone felt the urgent need for one.

Interest in badges has declined year on year.

Of the pre-ordered variety, 59 were ordered in 2012, 37 in 2013, 29 in 2014, 15 in 2015, 10 in 2016, 10 in 2017 and 9 last year.

Advance tickets for Scaleforum 2019 are available now via this link and if you would like a badge you can order one with your ticket.

Scalefour North is different. There are no advance ticket sales, although for the five years from 2013 until 2017 the following notice appeared in the Scalefour North show guide: "No Mistaken Identities
Some of us have problems remembering our own names, let alone those of others. If you would like to remind other visitors of your identity then name badges can be created at the Scalefour Society stand. For that professional touch, email your details to badge4scale4north@scalefour.org at least one week before the show and your badge will be available for collection at the show."

I have no record of any having been pre-ordered and, nothing to do with me, this notice hasn't been in the last two show guides.

I hope that all this will have been of interest

All the Best
Danny

Terry Bendall
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:08 am

David Thorpe wrote:If anyone was thinking ahead as to demonstrations I really would like to see, painting and especially weathering would come top of the list,


It was not in the preview in the last issue of the News since it was sorted out after that issue went to press but there will be a painting and weathering demonstrations at Scaleforum this year as the following extract from the Scaleforum guide shows:

"Painting and weathering using acrylic paints

Mike Cubberley and Mark Lambert will be showing how to paint and weather wagons using acrylic paints. These have the advantage of being easy to use and fast drying, enabling a good finish to be achieved quickly. Using techniques and materials borrowed from the world of military modelling Mike and Mark will show how prototype finishes can be achieved in model form.

"
David Thorpe wrote:followed by scenic work and buildings -


It has already been mentioned that Ralph Robertson will be at Scaleforum with his model of Alpha Mill although that may be something that not many of us need to build. However the use of computer aided drawing and a laser cutter is a technique that is applicable to many models and the painting and weathering will apply to any building. In the past we have of course had other demonstrations on buildings and scenic work but there is a limit to how much can be fitted in. We don't need to set up a specific demonstration on such topics. All layouts have buildings and scenic work in some form or other and all you have to do is to ask the builder how something was done. Yes I do know that some layout operators would prefer to concentrate on operation, but some layouts will have someone at the front with the specific job of answering questions, and on those that don't someone will usually be willing to respond to any queries.

Enigma wrote:why not offer yourself as a demonstrator at one of the society's events? In this way you will -


We could do with another person on the Society stand this year and there is no need for any great expertise in any aspect of modelling since the questions are wide ranging and are usually to do with fairly basic topics. The offer is there. :D

There are also other jobs that need to be done such as staffing the pay desk and working as a steward both of which give an opportunity to meet people and do a useful job at the same time. The offer is there. :D

Terry Bendall

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Martin Wynne » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:55 am

Given that almost everyone says they forget names, what's the point of knowing someone's name? It's not a pre-condition to talking to them.

What should be on the badge is not the name, but the avatar picture from this forum. :)

cheers,

Martin.
40 years developing Templot. And counting ...

Pannier Tank
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Pannier Tank » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:11 am

Martin Wynne wrote:What should be on the badge is not the name, but the avatar picture from this forum.


I'm easily scared so I have Avatars switched off :shock:
Regards

David

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LesGros
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby LesGros » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:12 am

Martin is right, you do not need a name badge in order to strike up a conversation with another visitor. :thumb After all, there is plenty of shared interest within the exhibition space.

That said, names can give better informed context; although both Name and Avatar would be better, I think.
LesG

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never made anything useful

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jim s-w
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby jim s-w » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:21 am


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David B
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David B » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:40 am

Nice one, Jim. We are still missing that 'Like' button.


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