Where will this lead......

JFS
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby JFS » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:56 pm

Hello Rob,

Great work here!

Just on your shaker, here is a thought from how "real" shakers work which might help. Rather than having a single eccentric weights, the real ones have two, geared to run in opposite directions. The effect of this is that when the weights are "in phase" they augment each other, but when they are "out of phase" they cancel each other out. This means that your chute would only vibrate horizontally with hardly any vertical movement - ie.

shaker.jpg
shaker.jpg (117.54 KiB) Viewed 3346 times


In terms of how to do it on a model, you used to be able to buy really cheap gear boxes sold for model boats to allow two propellers to be driven from a single motor and that would be dead easy to do. I will have a scratch round the internet to see if I can find one, otherwise, I might even have one up in the loft which you would be welcome to have if you like.

EDIT:-

Hmm not so cheap any more - they used to be 79p...

https://www.maritime-models.co.uk/acata ... boxes.html

but then bitter was only 18p a pint when I started drinking...

Best wishes,

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:47 pm

JFS wrote:Hello Rob,

Great work here.


Thanks Howard.

JFS wrote:Just on your shaker, here is a thought from how "real" shakers work which might help. Rather than having a single eccentric weights, the real ones have two, geared to run in opposite directions. The effect of this is that when the weights are "in phase" they augment each other, but when they are "out of phase" they cancel each other out. This means that your chute would only vibrate horizontally with hardly any vertical movement - ie.

shaker.jpg

In terms of how to do it on a model, you used to be able to buy really cheap gear boxes sold for model boats to allow two propellers to be driven from a single motor and that would be dead easy to do. I will have a scratch round the internet to see if I can find one, otherwise, I might even have one up in the loft which you would be welcome to have if you like.


Interesting thought, however, all a question of space in 4mm. I have to consider (for the future) if I am going to have the 2 roads functioning. I like your thought but at the moment all works well. I do not envisage that there will be many outings of the layout so as far as the forces exerted on the soldered springs I will take my chances........ :twisted: ......and thanks for the offer of the possible gear box in the attic....... :thumb

JFS wrote:EDIT:-

Hmm not so cheap any more - they used to be 79p...

https://www.maritime-models.co.uk/acata ... boxes.html

but then bitter was only 18p a pint when I started drinking...

Best wishes,


No probs with the cost of the gear boxes.......(I'm SKI'ing now.)......(Spending the Kids Inheritance)......and I can beat your price of bitter....well brown and mild in 1966.... ;)
Cheers R
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:34 pm

From posting on the NAG page........
Allan Goodwillie wrote:
Hi Rob, :)

spent some time this morning going over your posts - I have a set of the internal parts for working screens, made back in the 1980's when we were building a colliery layout called Bonnybridge during my period as Chairman of the East of Scotland 4mm Group. Must dig out some photographs. I note you are working on 2'x4'boards It may be possible to connect up some day - a couple of years off perhaps. The colliery line I am building had connections to two different collieries. I will be at Scalefour North Rob, I am doing a demo so we could possibly have a chat then. You never know. I am intending taking my layout to shows and perhaps have some of the local S4 members come along and run trains - thought that might be fun and also cut costs for the exhibition organisers. You would be most welcome to be a guest operator. :)


Hi Allan,
Would be interested in seeing the photos, alas all the space in my screens is taken up with the coal loading mechanism.
Yes, the scenic board will be 2' x 4' with traverser at either end so could always incorporate a connection (always need an excuse to get up to Scotland in our motorhome....... ;) ).
Jen and I will be at S4North on the Sunday so hopefully if you are not too busy we can chat.
See you then......
Rob
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Updated December 2016

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:58 am

Thanks Rob, :)

I will look forward to seeing you again. A traverser at either end sounds like a workable and useful arrangement for a possible link up in the future, so maybe not an impossibility! There are two leads off to unseen collieries on my new layout. One is on the level the other is downgrade to the colliery. The colliery trains were banked up on this one, but fairly short trains of wagons (8-10) the grade was 1in82.

Allan :)

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:48 pm

Allan, it would need a meet up with a traverser/fiddle board to exactly marry up the track. Can either be done at a Scalefour exhibition or as I say a meeting in God's country........Father from Glasgow, Mother from Rotterdam........
It would certainly be fun if we could pull it off.....
Rob
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:35 pm

Got me thinking Rob. ;)

I am aiming for the layout to be completed by summer 2019, despite Will's doom laden predictions (by the way I have sailed for years now, took it up in my 50's and have sailed the entire west coast of Scotland and the British side of the English channel). The layout is proving sturdy and the aluminium proving to be lightweight and the new board tops are working a treat, so more than satisfied -I had it at the Glasgow show a couple of weeks ago as a "work in progress"representing the West Group and was amazed at the amount of interest and questions asked. I have yet to post the work done since Christmas, but am taking a few days off catching up on more mundane things.

When we get together I will bring some info with me to show some drawings and I would be happy to build a connecting curve to link up to what you are building, leaving the last bit to be completed by your self to allow you to match up the colliery. I have a wagon works to build as part of the layout - that will take a couple of months to complete on its own, but should be impressive enough to balance the coal mine which looks terrific Rob. :) You never know this might be a goer! :)

Allan :)

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:26 am

Allan Goodwillie wrote:Got me thinking Rob. ;)

.....(by the way I have sailed for years now, took it up in my 50's and have sailed the entire west coast of Scotland and the British side of the English channel).


Have only sailed both sides of the channel. Lost the mast off Guernsey and that was scary. No shipping around, took ages to cut all the rigging then on the horizon a tall ship appeared and eventually escorted us to St Peters Port. Didn't put me off though.

Allan Goodwillie wrote:I have a wagon works to build as part of the layout - that will take a couple of months to complete on its own, but should be impressive enough to balance the coal mine which looks terrific Rob. :)


Looking forward to seeing the wagon works.

Allan Goodwillie wrote:You never know this might be a goer! :)

Allan :)


Can but try..... :thumb
Rob
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Will L
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Will L » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:33 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote:...despite Will's doom laden predictions...

What did I say :?:

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:57 pm

Will L wrote:
Allan Goodwillie wrote:...despite Will's doom laden predictions...

What did I say :?:

Tongue in cheek comment in your snooze column if I recall correctly :thumb
Tim Lee

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Yes Will, :)

that's where it came from, shows that we do read your very useful column in the snooze. Likewise I understood it to be tongue in cheek, but thank you for the mention. It has not put me off adding to the thread, just in case you or anyone else thinks so, it was just that with the Glasgow show looming there was little time to get the layout up to an "interesting" stage and I have had to temporarily had to leave it at a certain point. I have taken a couple of weeks off working and reporting on it just to catch up on a few commitments for other things including getting the blacksmith's building finished for Burntisland, which is now uppermost in my mind. This has to be ready for next month.

Thanks to your column I have found quite a number of items I might have missed without it. It is always one of the first bits I read when the Snooze lands on the mat. I do appreciate the time and effort that goes into it as I am sure most of the members do. :thumb

I do know that Rob is also interested in sailing. We have never lost a mast, but on one occasion coming down the side of Sky with its high cliffs we were taken by the wind in a force 7/8 and turned around in a complete circle, it was impossible to hold the wheel, it was a scary moment. Some time later when the mainsail rope was examined it had nearly been cut completely through - I was presented with it by the skipper later as a reminder of how close we had been to possible disaster. You don't run up against that sort of thing in model railways. Keeping calm in these circumstances is the most important thing.

Allan Ferguson who also contributes to the Forum from time to time has also been a long term sailor with much experience. He was kind enough to ask me to come along as crew one year and we sailed from Barra all the way up the outer isles and back with some wonderful and strange encounters on the way. Don't know if you go sailing yourself Will, but I took it up when I reached 50 as a new thing to try out and do, although I had had no inclination before that, turned out to be very interesting and enjoyable especially with good travelling companions. As an artist the light at sea can sometimes be quite magical. :)

Thinking about trying some flying lessons when I reach 70 this year, my father took up flying at about my age. :)

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:53 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote:
Thinking about trying some flying lessons when I reach 70 this year, my father took up flying at about my age. :)


Hang gliding at 75? :D or even parachuting at 80! :thumb ..... livinglifetothefull.com me thinks ;)
Tim Lee

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:02 pm

Well you never know Tim, :)

I do believe you should try new things all your life, my layout has a lot of brand new thinking in it and why not, what is the point of experience if you cannot use it to good purpose. I like air travel generally although the long trip back from China last year was fairly uncomfortable. My father had been engineer working on different designs for aircraft etc. during the war and had always wanted to go up, but it took him until his late sixties before he managed to get around to it. My sister used to go gliding, but I never managed to find time to go up with her. :cry:

A view of the countryside from that height gives a different sense of how we see our railways. When we were at Glasgow most of the comments were positive about the new build, however there was one chap who came up and said in a loud voice so that everyone could hear him. " I would never invite this layout to our exhibition!" I was momentarily taken aback by his directness, however I inquired "Oh, why?" thinking that perhaps he had not realised that the layout was invited as a "Work in Progress" rather than a finished layout. However he explained that he invited layouts to three different shows and repeated that there would be no invitation to the Wemyss Private Railway to any of them. He explained that the layout was too high for children and people in wheelchairs to be able to observe.

I mentioned that I had taken layouts much higher than this to many shows and had not had this as a reason for not being able to attend a show as most organisers look for a variety and we had always had alternatives of a raised box/boxes for children and when away with my friend Richard Chown's layouts we had pairs of large mirrors that acted like periscopes at either end of the layout for wheelchairs. He made it quite clear that that from his point of view that was not enough. I asked him what exhibitions he was the scout for, but he refused to tell me.

As a matter of interest in this dimension, I have a friend who has Parkinsons and I take him out in his wheel chair on a regular basis and at 4' in height the layout is viewable from wheel chair level. He did not give me a chance to mention this, nor the fact that the layout is designed to sit on a table with its legs folded up as an alternative, so it could attend an exhibition set out on tables. Hi rapid movement on seemed a pity as when he disappeared the two older fellows who I was speaking to said," Keep it that height son. (still nice to get that at near 70!) We can lean on the barriers and watch the trains wheels turn and its nice that!" I did not know the gents themselves, but the thought struck me they were natural S4 modellers.

I will not be trying sea-gull's eye views for my layout Tim despite considering flying. It has, however, given me ideas for a different type of backscene. :) which will allow observation of the layout from both sides. At that point it probably will no longer been seen from a wheel chair, however one set of backscenes could be taken off one side.

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:41 pm

Hi Rob,

This is just for interests sake, I did go and have a look in the garage to track down the sets of screens. The fact you have already made a set and they are working is excellent so this is just for interest as I say.

DSC02893.JPG


Here are the screens and picking tables.

DSC02894.JPG


The motor and gears to operate.

I went off to see if I had any photos of such things and in an old book which I have I found the following-

DSC02897.JPG


DSC02898.JPG


DSC02899.JPG

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:41 pm

Thanks for that Allan, very ingenious, perhaps less strain on the motor bearings than mine.
Interesting photos as well.
I have just completed my tub tippler based on one from Pleasley Colliery which is just up the road from me (I'll get some photos up soon). Currently working on the pit head building into which the tippler is incorporated and laying the narrow gauge track for the tubs. Have been trying to find out when tubs were replaced by alternative method but so far not found anything definite although got some further reading to do.....so I have a system (stolen from Snibston Coal Mine) whereby tubs come out of the cage, pushed into the tippler via a system of tub turntables and discharged onto a conveyor which ends up at the screens. The empty tubs then go down a slight incline to the other end of the building and then loaded into the cage.
Don't know yet how much of the building interior will be seen, do intend to light up the interior..........
Rob
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:46 pm

HI Rob, :)

I feel sure that if the colliery if built with one system would probably have ended up using the same system for life. In our area many a new pit was built after nationalisation and more modern systems put in from the start. They tended to be larger collieries replacing smaller less efficient collieries. There is a bit in the book describing the gradual replacement of pit ponies.

My grandfather during the 1920's strikes went down to rescue the pit ponies he was in charge of. A fire had started down the pit and had spread to the underground stables when he managed to get to them. He managed to rescue them all and had a pal of his work the winding gear, to wind them up. Once he managed to get them all up he discovered that the other men would not talk to him - they felt that the ponies belonged to the pit owner (who was down in London) and it should have been his loss. My grandfather was just thinking about his poor innocent ponies and also saw them as,in the same boat as the miners, he was a very humane man.

Despite My grandmother organising the soup kitchen at the time, my grandfather found he had to move to another pit afterwards. The incident made him go into politics on a local level and he eventually became the local provost in Buckhaven.

British pits generally were poorly served by their owners in terms of modernisation compared to Germany for example. The Laird of Wemyss not only owned the railway, but owned all the pits in the area, the housing and villages, the shops pubs and transport (Wemyss Tramway).

Allan

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:39 am

Allan Goodwillie wrote:HI Rob, :)

I feel sure that if the colliery if built with one system would probably have ended up using the same system for life. In our area many a new pit was built after nationalisation and more modern systems put in from the start. They tended to be larger collieries replacing smaller less efficient collieries. There is a bit in the book describing the gradual replacement of pit ponies.


That it re-assuring. I had read that some mines in this area had the tubs taken out of service in the 1950's and replaced with a drift.

Interesting story about your Grandfather, shame the other miners did not appreciate what he had done.
Rob
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:57 am

Hi Rob, :)

that is interesting about replacement with a drift. Many mines had drift entrances within their system, sometimes still taking coal from the mine. There was one on the Wemyss estate, which had its own buildings and sidings. The levels of coal were much reduced compared to most of the deep mining. It was often the case that the drift mine was first and was connected at a later date to a deep shaft pit - this could be useful within a pit not as a means to take coal out. Sometimes they were useful and part of the air circulation system and sometimes as an escape route if there should be a problem within the pit. Most of the escapees in the Redding disaster up here escaped via a drift shaft in the pit.

Allan :)

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:53 pm

Oh dear, a forced 6 week sabbatical, had a fall and broken my wrist..... :( .....so no updates for a while.
Rob
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Updated December 2016

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:32 pm

Sorry to hear that Rob .... sounds painful.

Take it easy and look after yourself as much as you can.

Tim
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Will L
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Will L » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:02 pm

RobM wrote:Oh dear, a forced 6 week sabbatical, had a fall and broken my wrist..... :( .....so no updates for a while.


Sorry to here that Rob, but I see you can still type. Obviously time to document how its done while you cant actually fo it.

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:32 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:Sorry to hear that Rob .... sounds painful.

Take it easy and look after yourself as much as you can.

Tim


Thanks Tim.....err yes, extremely painful. In 69.5 years I have never broken any bones.
Rob

Will L wrote:Sorry to here that Rob, but I see you can still type. Obviously time to document how its done while you cant actually fo it.


Thanks Will, can only type with one hand, fortunately, being right handed, it was my left wrist that took the knock.
Rob
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Updated December 2016

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:17 pm

HI Rob,

sorry to hear about your wrist you have enough to cope with, so I hope you get better soon. It will be painful enough I know I cracked a rib when sailing one time and we were days from our home port - just had to thole it. Hit by the boom when turning about, full sail on completely pinned to the cockpit!

Take it easy
Allan

ken kirk
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby ken kirk » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:18 pm

Sorry to hear about this Rob. I know that all at NAG will be too.
I'll contact you directly.
Regards and get better soon,
Ken

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:58 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote:HI Rob,

sorry to hear about your wrist you have enough to cope with, so I hope you get better soon. It will be painful enough I know I cracked a rib when sailing one time and we were days from our home port - just had to thole it. Hit by the boom when turning about, full sail on completely pinned to the cockpit!

Take it easy
Allan


Thanks Allan. Your experience sounds bad, doesn't bear thinking of.
Rob
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Updated December 2016

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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:02 pm

RobM wrote:Oh dear, a forced 6 week sabbatical, had a fall and broken my wrist..... :( .....so no updates for a while.
Rob

Greatest sympathies Rob!


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