Where will this lead......

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Le Corbusier » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:02 pm

Now that is a picture that is almost impossible to read :shock:
Tim Lee

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:27 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:Now that is a picture that is almost impossible to read :shock:

I had trouble reading it. Just posted it to show that it needed some soldering to fresh air as per instructions (or lack of).
The stays runs from bottom to top as shown. The gallery fits part way up the structure between the stays. The photo is basically a plan view. There will be some more photos in the next few days as completion approaches.
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:44 pm

All metal work now complete........

stocks01.jpg
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stocks02.jpg
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stocks03.jpg
stocks03.jpg (155.31 KiB) Viewed 3732 times


Rob
Last edited by RobM on Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Le Corbusier » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:47 pm

Wow ... that looks pretty fantastic Rob - you must be pleased.
Tim Lee

allanferguson
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby allanferguson » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:21 pm

That's a lovely piece of work, and for one who partly grew up in the West Fife coalfield, most evocative.
I have a vague recollection of some sort of gantry / pulley arrangement above the winding wheels, which I was told was for hoisting the rope onto the wheel after repairs etc. But I can't find any photographic evidence -- I of course had never thought about it until I saw your model.
If you do the rest of the pit to this standard you will have a truly historic model.

Allan F

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:39 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:Wow ... that looks pretty fantastic Rob - you must be pleased.


Thanks Tim. Yup, very pleased with it apart for one of the sheaves being slightly out. Also the ladder steps are not horizontal as the stay is at an angle. The instructions say to pull gently on opposing styles but nothing moved. Tried annealing but still no movement. Really enjoyed the building of it.

allanferguson wrote:That's a lovely piece of work, and for one who partly grew up in the West Fife coalfield, most evocative.
I have a vague recollection of some sort of gantry / pulley arrangement above the winding wheels, which I was told was for hoisting the rope onto the wheel after repairs etc. But I can't find any photographic evidence -- I of course had never thought about it until I saw your model.
If you do the rest of the pit to this standard you will have a truly historic model.

Allan F


Thanks Allan. The rest of the model will be based on various pits. I live in an ex mining village and know quite a few of the ex miners so may need to get first hand advice from them.

Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

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martinm
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby martinm » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:51 pm

Ee, by 'eck, Rob.
Really nice
m

philip-griffiths
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby philip-griffiths » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:46 pm

Takes me back,

Oakdale, Celynen South and North, Britannia, Markham, Six Bells, Penalta, Marine, Groesfan, big pit,

all operating when I was child, all gone by the 90s.

it looks super.

regards

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:03 am

martinm wrote:Ee, by 'eck, Rob.
Really nice
m


Thanks Martin....

philip-griffiths wrote:Takes me back,
Oakdale, Celynen South and North, Britannia, Markham, Six Bells, Penalta, Marine, Groesfan, big pit,
all operating when I was child, all gone by the 90s.
it looks super.
regards


Thanks Philip.
It also reminds me of my previous life with a mortgage, kids to fund through education and a proper job in the 1980's. I was a traffic cop and spent almost a year policing the Nottinghamshire coal field during the 1984-5 miners strike (must add that the traffic cops were not any of Maggies boot boys and were sympathetic to the many pickets who we got to know....I digress). At quiet times we had access to the mines where we were fed. If only I'd realised then what I would be doing in 2017 and taken a camera.....
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:08 am

RobM wrote:I was a traffic cop and spent almost a year policing the Nottinghamshire coal field during the 1984-5 miners strike (must add that the traffic cops were not any of Maggies boot boys and were sympathetic to the many pickets who we got to know....I digress).
Rob

Sounds an interesting back story ;)
Tim Lee

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:07 am

Le Corbusier wrote:Sounds an interesting back story ;)

It was but then a police dog took a liking to my legs on a job in 1990 which resulted in subsequent medical retirement allowing me to take up my art full time.
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

Ian White
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Ian White » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:24 am

Wow - that is a very impressive piece of modelling!

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:55 pm

Thanks Ian.
Credit should also go to Malcolm Wright for the design and production of the etches. All I did was bend, fit and solder.... ;)
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:40 pm

It has now led to drawing up an initial plan. All contained on a 4' x 2' baseboard.

colliery-plan.png
colliery-plan.png (11.93 KiB) Viewed 3323 times


1. Workshops. 2. Tipplers. 3. Creeper. 4. Down shaft. 5. Conveyor. 6. Winding house. 7. Winding house
8. Up shaft. 9. Boiler house. 10. Ventilation. 11. Water Circulator. 12. Screens 13. Dirt bunker. 14. Engine shed.
Black - standard gauge track. Blue - narrow gauge track mainly inset.

The engine shed is the back end of the building (so access only via fiddle yard) and will act as the mouse hole blocker. The up shaft will be constructed from styrene, Plastruct and the spare sheaves from Wrightscale. 2 fiddle yards at either end of the scenic baseboard. Back scene to be spoil heap which was formed from another pit in the next village. I have a huge spoil tip at the back of my house which is now grassed over and buries the old Annesley MPD.
Another building to the front left also to act as a mouse hole blocker to be decided on.
Crits welcome.
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

Armchair Modeller
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Armchair Modeller » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:13 pm

Hi Rob,

It would be a very brave man to criticise your ideas after your 2 outstanding models - the pottery and the brewery. There is obviously a lot more in your mind's eye than can be conveyed by a 2-dimensional diagram and a few notes!

Sticking my head above the parapet though, I wonder if less would give you more though in this case. A narrower baseboard, more facilities off-scene and not modelled at all, other bits in low relief or even just painted on the backscene? Something less rigidly parallel to the front of the baseboard?

I would also suggest squeezing in just a tiny bit of non-colliery stuff, just to provide a contrast. A bit of grass outside the colliery grounds, a road, a cottage for example.

Just one example...the screens would provide a natural scenic break. Assuming a fiddle yard at both ends, you don't have to model the screens in their entirety.

I did try quickly to Google some photos of collieries that might convey what I am thinking. This was the best I could come up with (Wynnstay Colliery Ruabon), but it is really not a good example. The connection to the main line comes in in the foreground, with a cottage and a grass bank behind. The tracks form a V, rather than all being parallel.

Image

If you imagine the screens on the right in low relief near the front of the layout and the other buildings rearranged so it all makes sense, tapering away towards the backscene?

I am probably talking utter rubbish, so please feel free to ignore everything I have said and carry on with your version of what will I am sure be a brilliant model.

I will run away and hide now.

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:48 am

Armchair Modeller wrote:Hi Rob,

It would be a very brave man to criticise your ideas ................
...........I will run away and hide now.


Richard, your (and anyone else's) input is welcome and a lot of fair comments... :thumb
The initial design is meant to go on an off the shelf baseboard(s) from Tim Horn as my carpentry skills are not up to much. Also need to consider transporting.
One of my pet hates is having everything running parallel and straight, I would liked to have had the colliery on a slight curve but that would have meant a wider baseboard.
In a previous rough drawings I did have the screens butting up to the right but that left the mouse hole totally visible, tried the screens at the back of the layout which is still a possibility and will allow coal to be actually loaded into wagons.
Everything is still open and once I've got a number of buildings made I can play around.
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:28 am

looking forward to watching this develop. .... fascinated by the idea of pushing things around at the mid build stage to finalise the design, rather than designing to build.
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:38 pm

RobM wrote:Richard, your (and anyone else's) input is welcome and a lot of fair comments... :thumb
Rob


Good luck with your planning, Rob.

My favourite colliery models (until you have built yours) are Kepier colliery in 4mm scale and Highbury Colliery in 2mm scale. Well worth a Google!

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:43 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:looking forward to watching this develop. .... fascinated by the idea of pushing things around at the mid build stage to finalise the design, rather than designing to build.

That has been the way I work with the brewery and the salt glazed ware works......main structures first, then bring the railway in. As I only build fictitious locations I can do it that way, modelling a real location is a different matter as you only know.

Armchair Modeller wrote:
Good luck with your planning, Rob.

My favourite colliery models (until you have built yours) are Kepier colliery in 4mm scale and Highbury Colliery in 2mm scale. Well worth a Google!


Yup, I came across those along with Wayne Hopkins 7mm scale colliery at the bottom of the page on http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92405-colliery-drawings-in-4mm-scale/
Also the same page that I found out about the Wrightscale etches.
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

Phil O
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Phil O » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:32 pm

Hi Rob

If you built the screens as a wedge with the wide end at the front, that would hie the mouse hole and would put the parallel screen roads on an angle, which could be gently curved to exit on the left.

Cheers

Phil

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:38 pm

Phil, more food for thought......... :thumb
Methinks quite a few more drawings will be done before the final decision. Everything is open at the moment.
Still juggling with decorating, starting to work out and build the down shaft buildings and have now been diverted with looking at the many steel steps and walk ways so getting into drawing up etches...........all good fun!
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

Phil O
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Phil O » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:05 pm

Hi Rob
I have had a little play on Templot and knocked up a rough plan of what I meant in the above post. I only put in the screens and dirt bunker. If you would like the templot file, please ask.

Rob sketch.png

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Noel
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Noel » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:34 pm

Rob, coal mine rail layouts could be empties in/loaded out at the same end of the site, or empties in at one end, loaded out at the other. In either case it seems to have been normal practice for the screens to be 'one way' [empties one side, loaded the other], except, perhaps, at very small sites. In the first case there had to be a line avoiding the screens to take empties to the other end, in the latter there would normally still be a line which did not go under the screens, to enable locos to freely access both ends of the site [screens had low headroom] and to deal with odd traffic such as vans. It doesn't have to be 'on scene', of course...
Regards
Noel

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RobM
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby RobM » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:43 am

Phil O wrote:Hi Rob
I have had a little play on Templot and knocked up a rough plan of what I meant in the above post. I only put in the screens and dirt bunker. If you would like the templot file, please ask.


Am I right in thinking that their are two turnouts.....? My original intention was to use a 3 way to save space. Thanks for doing that though.... :thumb
The reason for having the screens where I have them positioned becomes clearer if what I mention in my reply to Noel works.

Noel wrote:Rob, coal mine rail layouts could be empties in/loaded out at the same end of the site, or empties in at one end, loaded out at the other. In either case it seems to have been normal practice for the screens to be 'one way' [empties one side, loaded the other], except, perhaps, at very small sites. In the first case there had to be a line avoiding the screens to take empties to the other end, in the latter there would normally still be a line which did not go under the screens, to enable locos to freely access both ends of the site [screens had low headroom] and to deal with odd traffic such as vans. It doesn't have to be 'on scene', of course...


Noel, my intention was to have the empties coming in from the left and the fulls exiting to the right with a second loco. I have a clearance of 14' but with the conveyor in the down position it reduces to 10'. I want to model the conveyor along with the inspection platforms and other little details. Yup, there are lines which by pass the screens including the main line but they are off scene to the front..... ;)
Much of my references come from 'Modelling Aspects of the Coal Industry' and 'Modelling Further Aspects of the Coal Industry' by Rob Johnson.
I've also come across an ingenious method of having the wagons being loaded within the screens which I will have a go at replicating. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76110-moving-coal-a-colliery-layout-in-0-gauge/page-8 starting at post 190.
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

Terry Bendall
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Re: Where will this lead......

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:38 am

RobM wrote:It has now led to drawing up an initial plan. All contained on a 4' x 2' baseboard


Just looked at this for the first time in several days. At your usual rate of progress Rob shall I put you down for Scaleforum 2019? ;) :D

Terry Bendall


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