Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Help and advice for those starting in, or converting to P4 standards. A place to share modelling as a beginner in P4.
JPAHulett
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:50 am

Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby JPAHulett » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:53 pm

I have very recently joined the scalefour society having been really impressed with layouts I have seen at Warley and more recently at Railex. I am very much a dormant modeller with limited previous experience but plenty of motivation to try my hand at finescale. Despite the wealth of material and advice on the web in this forum and elsewhere there still seem to be a few things that nobody quite explains to the novice like me. The society's excellent publication 'moving to P4' mentions just about everything except a list of a basic toolkit that would be useful. To give you an axample of how quickly you can come unstuck (!) I have purchased a P4 starter kit from Exactoscale as this was recommended to me as a way to start gaining experience of track and turnout construction. Working my way through the instructions I don't get very far before being asked to cut 0.4mm from a closure rail. How am I supposed to do that? I have no tool to measure at those kinds of tolerance and my old mini hacksaw blade is probably wider than 0.4mm itself! Later the instructions ask me to 'soften the sharp edges with a needle file or 'knife-shaped' file. I don't have either of these!
I won't ramble on any more but would greatly appreciate any advice from one of the experts as to a basic recommended toolkit to get me started. Thank you in anticipation. :?:

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Flymo748
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:44 pm

JPAHulett wrote:I have very recently joined the scalefour society... Despite the wealth of material and advice on the web in this forum and elsewhere there still seem to be a few things that nobody quite explains to the novice like me. The society's excellent publication 'moving to P4' mentions just about everything except a list of a basic toolkit that would be useful.

I won't ramble on any more but would greatly appreciate any advice from one of the experts as to a basic recommended toolkit to get me started. Thank you in anticipation. :?:


Hi John,

It's a very good question that you ask, and one to which you will probably find almost as many answers as there are members of the Society. I've been railway modelling for years, and I'm still picking up the odd useful tool from time to time - Eileen's Emporium has done very well out of me recently! I wouldn't claim to be any sort of expert, so rather than give you the content of MY toolbox, I'll refer to one of the finescale pioneers.

In a previous edition of Scalefour News, Iain Rice described how he built a portable toolbox for demonstrations and travelling. He also listed the contents that he included in it as a "basic" toolkit. To me, it reads pretty comprehensively, and mirrors much of my own tool cabinet's contents. The full articles are in S4News 126 and 127, and of course as member you can download copies of them from the Society website. Anyway, he lists:

1 pair close-up modelling spectacles (Essential these days!)
1 pair stout squared-off snipe nose pliers.
1 pair fine snipe nose pliers.
1 pair round nose pliers.
1 pair small precision shear.
1 pair small Gilbow metal shears.
1 pair sharp scissors.
1 X-Acto razor saw blade only (handle is luxury, not really necessary)
1 engineer’s scriber.
1 small screwdriver with flat and cross-head blades.
1 medium and 1 small jeweller’s screwdrivers.
1 small Eclipse pin vice.
7 assorted Swiss files -
flat,
warding,
knife-edge,
half-round,
round,
triangular and
square.
1 larger flat file - mine is a 4-inch #2 cut locksmith’s file.
1 pair fine stainless fine-point tweezers.
1 Swan-Morton scalpel handle with a fine straight blade.
1 Swan-Morton modelling knife with a curved #2 blade.
1 miniature Archimedean drill.
A flat cigarillo tin containing: Drills -
0.5mm x 3, 0.7mm x 2,
1mm.,
1.2mm,
1.5mm,
3/32”,
1/8”.
Two fine taper brooches (cheap sort with plastic handles). 8BA and 10BA taps. Several small pieces abrasive paper in 180, 240 and 320 grit.
A flat plastic Kadee wheel-set box containing spare knife and scalpel blades plus a spare soldering iron bit.
A 1-oz pin hammer
3 Daler ‘Dalon’ synthetic-hair paintbrushes, to wit -
a 00, a 1 and a 2.1 cheap squirrel-hair paintbrush (about #2) for plastic solvent.
B, HB and H pencils, an eraser and a pencil-sharpener.
Bundle of Berol ‘Karisma’ coloured pencils including:
KC935 Black,
KC938 White,
KC1067 Cool Grey,
KC 1054 Warm Grey,
KC936 Slate Grey,
KC945 Sienna Brown,
KC944 Terra-Cotta,
KC1033 Mineral Orange and
KC918 Orange.
These are my brickwork and weathering colours.
A black biro
A ruling pen
Pair of compasses
Small mixing palette for paint (or old foil cake-cases)
A 45º and a 60º plastic geometry-set set-square and a small French curve.
Wooden file handle
Olfa plastic-cutter with spare blades in handle.
Tube of modelling putty (mine’s some excellent Italian Molak ‘Stucco per polistirolo’ - try John Shelley at Fourtrack Models)
Tube of contact adhesive - Bostik, UHU or similar.
Tube of ordinary polystyrene cement.
Small (3g) applicator tube of Cyano.
Tubes of twin-pack epoxy resin adhesive
Film canister containing selection of small pins.
Film canister of small BA nuts and bolts with washers 6, 8, 10 + 12BA
Film canister of small self-tap, metric and woodscrews.
Film canister with 145º and 70º solders.
Film canister full of PVA white glue.
Hypodermic syringe full of neutral paste ‘Powerflow’ flux.
Tissues or kitchen towel
Clipped/fitted to main part of tray:
1-inch jaw miniature vice.
Small sanding block 3-ins square, with 180 grit one side and 320 the 12 inch steel rule
A 12-inch scale rule with 7mm, 4mm, 3.5mm and 3mm scales.
A 6-inch steel rule
A small (2-inch) engineer’s square
An Antex 18W instrument soldering iron with 3mm. flat bit. Stowed with tip in heatsink made from brass tube and half an old Cotswold milled-brass loco chassis.
Bottle of ‘Plastic Magic’ plastic solvent.
10 little pots of Humbrol acrylic hobby paint:
5033 Matt Black,
5034 Matt white,
5024 Matt Yellow,
5025 Matt Blue,
5027 Matt Sea Grey,
5029 Matt Earth,
5030 Matt Olive Green,
5046 Matt orange,
5060 Matt Red,
5070 Brick red.
Any remaining ‘workbench area’ space is taken up in transit by sheet plastic and metal, shallow box of plastic strip/rod, etc., shallow box of metal strip, wire, etc., and any extra tool needed for a particular project.

I know that this looks like a lot, but you can build it up gradually as you do different projects. Any more questions on the specifics, just ask!

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Tim V
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Tim V » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:55 pm

Blimey Paul, that list put me off!

Consulting digest 23.6.1 digests_download.php?f=23-6-1rev2.PDF
a smaller list of tools is shown.
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

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Flymo748
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:18 pm

Tim V wrote:Blimey Paul, that list put me off!


I did say it was daunting, and not to be got in one go!

If push came to shove, I'd say a good scalpel and plenty of spare blades, a good quality needle file set, a temperature controlled 50w soldering iron, and a piercing saw. That would get you started on most things...

Now I'm back to a High Level 108:1 gearbox. It's nearly done, but getting the last bl**dy washers in place on the idler shaft is testing my patience. I'm about to "tack" them together with axle grease so at least I deal with all three together, rather than have #1 and #2 fall back off the axle whilst I'm manoeuvring #3 into place :-/

Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:41 pm

Flymo748 wrote:If push came to shove, I'd say a good scalpel and plenty of spare blades, a good quality needle file set, a temperature controlled 50w soldering iron, and a piercing saw. That would get you started on most things...

For the immediate task to hand, however, the P4 point kit, and then, presumably some track to go with it. You will need the Plastic solvent and small brush to apply it. For cutting 0.4mm off the end of a rail I would use a flat file, best to get one a bit bigger than the needle files, it makes life easier. And for more general rail cutting a Xuron Rail cutter.
Regards
Keith

martin goodall
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby martin goodall » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:48 pm

Unless I missed it when scrolling down the list, one thing that I wouldn't want to be without is a vernier gauge. You can get very accurate digital read-out gauges nowadays at very reasonable prices. Mine is the old-fashioned kind, but still very useful. I find myself reaching for it more frequently than my 6-inch engineer's rule. It's not that I want to measure things to the Nth degree of accuracy, but it is just a very convenient tool for measuring all sorts of small dimensions.

For sawing, in addition to the razor saw (very useful), I also have a piercing saw (but very fine blades break too easily - best to use slightly thicker blades), and for rough sawing, a junior hacksaw is still useful.

The Swann-Morton modelling knife is very useful (my tool of first choice), but there are some heavier cutting jobs that benefit from the use of a Stanley trimming knife.

No doubt there are other tools that could be added to the list. Chris Pendlenton wrote an article on this subject in an early issue of MRJ and his tool list almost exactly coincided with my own.

I sometimes think it might be amusing to write an article on tools you don't need. No.1 would be the lathe - I do possess such a beast (a Unimat 3), and it has occasionally proved useful, but I cannot say that the very intermittent use my lathe gets has ever justified its cost. I find that paint stirring, using the vertical milling/drilling attachment, is more frequent than anything more sophisticated!

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Mike Garwood » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:29 pm

Frankly I'm a little surprised the list is so short :D ...I work on my desk top so everything, including 3 soldering irons, live in my tool box. Mind you, you get a great biceps work out lugging it around!

Mike

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Will L
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Will L » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:02 am

JPAHulett wrote:.. I won't ramble on any more but would greatly appreciate any advice from one of the experts as to a basic recommended toolkit to get me started. Thank you in anticipation. :?:


I wouldn't ask an expert, 'cause what you'll get is the huge tool list given above. The reference to digest 23.6.1 was closer to the mark but is specificity for track building an does include a few specialised item that you'll only need if you start to build a lot of track by the ply sleeper and rivet method.

I think Flymo got it nearer right,
Flymo748 wrote:If push came to shove, I'd say a good scalpel and plenty of spare blades, a good quality needle file set, a temperature controlled 50w soldering iron, and a piercing saw. That would get you started on most things...


...though I would be tempted substitute a razor saw for the piercing saw and add a steel rule (thin and flexible type), a small pair of thin nosed pliers (not the lumping great electrical things), a pair of snips about the same size, a small pin chuck and set of small drills to make holes with.

The most important tip is to buy good tools, quality pays in this, and as they will not be cheep don't buy much until you know what you want, and why.

Try building a few things, wagons are a very good starting place, and you'll soon find out what additional tools you'll need, a tool box is a very personal thing. Then read all those articles on various peoples tool boxes, they come up quite often and are more common than you may think. You might then start to make more sense of what is meant but the cut on a file or the number of teeth on a piercing saw blade or why a four inch flat file is so useful.

Will
Last edited by Will L on Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Stephen F
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Stephen F » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:58 am

Excellent list from Flymo, I use a Harrogate toffee tin for my drill bits, and not a cigarillo one, hope that's acceptable.

The only thing no one's mentioned is, keep some blutack near AT ALL TIMES :!:

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newport_rod
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby newport_rod » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:55 pm

I'm suprised that Mike didn't mention the blutack (industrial grade).

JPAHulett
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby JPAHulett » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:44 pm

Thank you all for your very helpful responses. It's great that so many of you have taken the time to post replies to my question. Thanks flymo for the extensive list - I'll need a five year plan for that I think! Thanks also to others for the suggestions on the most essential items particularly the files and rails cutters etc. I'l browse through Eileen's emporium and see what I can buy to get me started. Thanks Grovenor for the soldering iron suggestion. When I bought a Comet chassis kit at Railex Geoff (I think) recommended a 25w model which I bought from the Expo stand. I hope that will be ok for the time being. I'll certainly look up the digest article Tim and, yes I have got blu-tac!

Julian Roberts
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Julian Roberts » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:05 am

Hi - I cant see this in suggestions made so far: when I started I had 2 soldering irons, one at 18W and one 25W. What has been brilliant has been an Antex Energy Regulator: a dimmer-switch type of thing which cost about £20. This gives control on the temperature of the iron, and means I can use just the one 25W iron for the different types of soldering be it 70deg whitemetal solder or 243 high temperature. I've marked on the control where whitemetal melts...and now soldering even whitemetal kits is just as easy as anything else, whereas when I started I approached them with fear and trepidation in case of reducing the kit to a molten mass.

Happy Modelling - Julian Roberts

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John Bateson
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby John Bateson » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:25 am

2 small lengths of Ramin or other quality wood about 6cm long and something like 15x20mm across - used to hold all those brass parts such as chassis and helps to preserve skin configuration.
John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
http://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

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Andy W
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Andy W » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:21 am

A cheap pack of balsa is useful. You can pin various pieces of coach side etc to it and solder up. The larger pieces provide a right angle edge which is invaluable.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

martin goodall
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby martin goodall » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:41 am

Re soldering : While shopping at Eileen's Emporium, buy yourself a small tin of soldering iron tip cleaner. It is brilliant for cleaning/retinning a soldering iron when it gets clagged up. My original soldering iron had a solid copper bit, so I just filed it when it got dirty, but you can't do that with modern plated bits, so the little magic tin is a godsend.

One minor problem - the tin is so small that I lost mine somewhere at home and had to buy a replacement (current price £5.70). [No doubt the orginal tin will now turn up!]

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Mike Garwood » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:18 am

Also not mentioned in the list are hair grips, great for holding stuff together whilst 'sweating' the 2 parts together.

Mike

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Flymo748
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:51 pm

Mike Garwood wrote:Also not mentioned in the list are hair grips, great for holding stuff together whilst 'sweating' the 2 parts together.


Plus they are easily adapted for other situations. Here's one that I had to modify earlier today to get a soldering iron close inside a pair of slidebars that had already been assembled.

Grip.jpg


At a cost of a few pennies each, you can afford to customise them by cutting or bending to fit a particular job. Well recommended, and something that should not be forgotten when you're struggling with a difficult kit.

Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Andy W
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Andy W » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:02 am

These are indeed invaluable - but I've found it difficult now to find basic grips that aren't coated in something that allows solder to take on their surfaces. Does anyone know a retail source of basic un-coated ones?
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

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Flymo748
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:34 am

Ealing wrote:These are indeed invaluable - but I've found it difficult now to find basic grips that aren't coated in something that allows solder to take on their surfaces. Does anyone know a retail source of basic un-coated ones?


I couldn't - I actually trawled around a few of the likely retail places (Claire's Hair Accessories, Boots, Superdrug) and couldn't find any.

There was the possibility of some on the internet, but only in large quantities and the postage was still sizeable. So the next time that I was at an exhibition with either London Road or Eileens there (I can't remember which) I got about ten for a couple of quid. They'll last a few years...

Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Jim Summers
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Jim Summers » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:00 pm

I don't think anyone has mentioned masking tape yet, or clothespegs (wooden). Both have uses in holding things down or together, especially when soldering. You can cut the clothes pegs to a specific shape, as Flymo did with his (or someone's . . . ) hairgrips. Then there are the indispensable cocktail sticks and lollipop sticks.

All have the merit of being low-tech, low-cost.

Jim

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JackBlack
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby JackBlack » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:20 pm

I found some excellent miniature clothespegs in the supermarket the other day (Leclerc), as well as oversized coctail sticks.

alaninDM
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby alaninDM » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:28 am

As has been said the tool kit is a personal thing. But a few more bits of advice which I hope have not been already given but if so are worth repeating.
1. mainly buy the best you can afford and look after your tools and they will out last you;
2. try to avoid buying tools that seem useful or interesting: they are often not and will clutter your work surface/tool box;
3. check around for prices: e.g drills in the 0.4-1.9mm range - buy these in multiples; much cheaper than sets esp as the one you want will break quickly;
4. look for advice about using tools - e.g. David Jenkinson on using knives (and sharpening them) for cutting plasticard, and Guy Williams on cutting sheet metal;
5. practise and think about what you are trying to achieve - sometimes using a homemade jig e.g. just a simple lump of plasticine (a cheaper and easier version of bluetak!) to hold several bits together, can make your existing tools perform beyond your expectations;
6. get good lighting - absolutely essential

And enjoy!!

Alan

simonmoore

Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby simonmoore » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
JPAHulett wrote:I have very recently joined the scalefour society... Despite the wealth of material and advice on the web in this forum and elsewhere there still seem to be a few things that nobody quite explains to the novice like me. The society's excellent publication 'moving to P4' mentions just about everything except a list of a basic toolkit that would be useful.

I won't ramble on any more but would greatly appreciate any advice from one of the experts as to a basic recommended toolkit to get me started. Thank you in anticipation. :?:


Hi John,

It's a very good question that you ask, and one to which you will probably find almost as many answers as there are members of the Society. I've been railway modelling for years, and I'm still picking up the odd useful tool from time to time - Eileen's Emporium has done very well out of me recently! I wouldn't claim to be any sort of expert, so rather than give you the content of MY toolbox, I'll refer to one of the finescale pioneers.

In a previous edition of Scalefour News, Iain Rice described how he built a portable toolbox for demonstrations and travelling. He also listed the contents that he included in it as a "basic" toolkit. To me, it reads pretty comprehensively, and mirrors much of my own tool cabinet's contents. The full articles are in S4News 126 and 127, and of course as member you can download copies of them from the Society website. Anyway, he lists:

1 pair close-up modelling spectacles (Essential these days!)
1 pair stout squared-off snipe nose pliers.
1 pair fine snipe nose pliers.
1 pair round nose pliers.
1 pair small precision shear.
1 pair small Gilbow metal shears.
1 pair sharp scissors.
1 X-Acto razor saw blade only (handle is luxury, not really necessary)
1 engineer’s scriber.
1 small screwdriver with flat and cross-head blades.
1 medium and 1 small jeweller’s screwdrivers.
1 small Eclipse pin vice.
7 assorted Swiss files -
flat,
warding,
knife-edge,
half-round,
round,
triangular and
square.
1 larger flat file - mine is a 4-inch #2 cut locksmith’s file.
1 pair fine stainless fine-point tweezers.
1 Swan-Morton scalpel handle with a fine straight blade.
1 Swan-Morton modelling knife with a curved #2 blade.
1 miniature Archimedean drill.
A flat cigarillo tin containing: Drills -
0.5mm x 3, 0.7mm x 2,
1mm.,
1.2mm,
1.5mm,
3/32”,
1/8”.
Two fine taper brooches (cheap sort with plastic handles). 8BA and 10BA taps. Several small pieces abrasive paper in 180, 240 and 320 grit.
A flat plastic Kadee wheel-set box containing spare knife and scalpel blades plus a spare soldering iron bit.
A 1-oz pin hammer
3 Daler ‘Dalon’ synthetic-hair paintbrushes, to wit -
a 00, a 1 and a 2.1 cheap squirrel-hair paintbrush (about #2) for plastic solvent.
B, HB and H pencils, an eraser and a pencil-sharpener.
Bundle of Berol ‘Karisma’ coloured pencils including:
KC935 Black,
KC938 White,
KC1067 Cool Grey,
KC 1054 Warm Grey,
KC936 Slate Grey,
KC945 Sienna Brown,
KC944 Terra-Cotta,
KC1033 Mineral Orange and
KC918 Orange.
These are my brickwork and weathering colours.
A black biro
A ruling pen
Pair of compasses
Small mixing palette for paint (or old foil cake-cases)
A 45º and a 60º plastic geometry-set set-square and a small French curve.
Wooden file handle
Olfa plastic-cutter with spare blades in handle.
Tube of modelling putty (mine’s some excellent Italian Molak ‘Stucco per polistirolo’ - try John Shelley at Fourtrack Models)
Tube of contact adhesive - Bostik, UHU or similar.
Tube of ordinary polystyrene cement.
Small (3g) applicator tube of Cyano.
Tubes of twin-pack epoxy resin adhesive
Film canister containing selection of small pins.
Film canister of small BA nuts and bolts with washers 6, 8, 10 + 12BA
Film canister of small self-tap, metric and woodscrews.
Film canister with 145º and 70º solders.
Film canister full of PVA white glue.
Hypodermic syringe full of neutral paste ‘Powerflow’ flux.
Tissues or kitchen towel
Clipped/fitted to main part of tray:
1-inch jaw miniature vice.
Small sanding block 3-ins square, with 180 grit one side and 320 the 12 inch steel rule
A 12-inch scale rule with 7mm, 4mm, 3.5mm and 3mm scales.
A 6-inch steel rule
A small (2-inch) engineer’s square
An Antex 18W instrument soldering iron with 3mm. flat bit. Stowed with tip in heatsink made from brass tube and half an old Cotswold milled-brass loco chassis.
Bottle of ‘Plastic Magic’ plastic solvent.
10 little pots of Humbrol acrylic hobby paint:
5033 Matt Black,
5034 Matt white,
5024 Matt Yellow,
5025 Matt Blue,
5027 Matt Sea Grey,
5029 Matt Earth,
5030 Matt Olive Green,
5046 Matt orange,
5060 Matt Red,
5070 Brick red.
Any remaining ‘workbench area’ space is taken up in transit by sheet plastic and metal, shallow box of plastic strip/rod, etc., shallow box of metal strip, wire, etc., and any extra tool needed for a particular project.

I know that this looks like a lot, but you can build it up gradually as you do different projects. Any more questions on the specifics, just ask!

Cheers
Flymo



Bloomin heck that's a scary list of tool's enough to put the modest modeller off. Although their are some good item's listed that i had over looked hopefully my small toolbox will start me off.

Simon.

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Flymo748
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Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:56 pm

simonmoore wrote:
Bloomin heck that's a scary list of tool's enough to put the modest modeller off. Although their are some good item's listed that i had over looked hopefully my small toolbox will start me off.

Simon.

Hi Simon,

The point of posting that list was that it was something to "pick and mix" from, rather than a full list to hit Eileen's Emporium with - although I'm sure that Derek would thank you for the business.

Start with what you *need* and then build up from there. Even if that list looked daunting, you will find that most of them are simple/cheap tools, and take up very little space. The original list was for Iain Rice's portable toolkit, which he kept in a wooden case. The two articles are in the Scalefour News archive, which you can now download and read as a member. Have a browse and enjoy!

Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

simonmoore

Re: Basic tool set for P4 modelling

Postby simonmoore » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:33 am

I'll certainly be taking note of various items on that list simply because they are items i dont have & will no doubt need in the future.

Simon.


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