Primitive Cool

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:20 am

Thanks Rob.

The problem I see with operating from the front is that I would continually be moving along the layout from one end to the other. This would almost certainly be annoying to spectators who would see more of my back than of the layout. It would be physically impossible to operate the layout from one place, like on yours.

I was assuming that the general reaction of spectators would be stunned silence of the "cannot compute!" kind. Explaining my crazy ideas to the public would probably take a lifetime - and even then they probably wouldn't understand. ;)

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:10 pm

A couple of people discreetly asked what the red loco was in the last layout image (that's a polite interpretation of the actual questions asked ;)).

It is in fact a Frateschi (Brazilian manufacturer) General Motors G-8 loco - supposedly to HO scale, but in reality 4mm scale give or take a hair's breadth. I got it for £40 secondhand - how could I resist at that price? A quick inspection suggests it ought to be relatively easy to convert to P4 standards - little more than a wheel swap, though Penbits-style sprung bogies would give a nicer ride.

I rode behind one in Chile many years ago - though it might have been a G-12 which is more or less identical on the outside. That is the main reason for buying it. Converting one to P4 could be a world first and probably unique for the rest of eternity.

Here is a photo of the loco on the turntable - a really neat fit!

aDSCF4912.jpg
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I will find a really good excuse for running it on the layout, I promise.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:30 am

The Frateschi U20C is also to 4mm scale, I P4'd mine some time ago http://www.norgrove.me.uk/U20C-project/u20c.html unfortunately other Frateschi models really are H0 and there seems to be no source of info to advise which models are to which scale without buying one.
Regards

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:17 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:The Frateschi U20C is also to 4mm scale, I P4'd mine some time ago http://www.norgrove.me.uk/U20C-project/u20c.html unfortunately other Frateschi models really are H0 and there seems to be no source of info to advise which models are to which scale without buying one.
Regards


Thanks Keith - fortunately, I only wanted this one. I wasn't aware of your conversion project, so will investigate with interest! :thumb

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:41 pm

I have made a new switch panel for the isolating switches on board 2. Originally, the switches were in a matrix. It was only when I struggled to think what I would label them as that I realised a diagram would serve far better. The panel is slightly recessed and in DCC mode would be hidden from view. Here it is.

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As on board one, the switches would only normally be used if I ever need to trace a short circuit on what will be a DCC layout. They can however be used to electrically isolate individual sidings, or even to operate the layout under DC if necessary.

I have also partially dismantled the GM G-8 loco I mentioned above. It seems to be designed rather differently to Keith's U20C, so a different approach to fine-scaling it will be necessary. This will be covered in a new topic in due course.

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Mon May 15, 2017 5:36 pm

The layout has now been erected in its entirety in my living room. The trestles are temporary 'universal' trestles I built many years ago. I hope to adapt the original legs for these baseboards for regular use pretty soon.

This will more or less be its home for the next few months as I begin to pull everything together. No SWMBO to upset in my household! I will of course do any work on the baseboards by removing them temporarily and doing the messy bits elsewhere. This is the first time I have had all three baseboards connected together. The layout looks really big - especially as I have recently been doing a bit of work on the 2mm version. Neversay will of course be slightly longer in the long term, as I will add a small cassette/fiddle yard to allow trains to head for the off-scene quayside.

aDSCF4958.jpg
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Long term, I will use the garage for this sort of thing. Unfortunately, poor lighting and all the junk in there need to be sorted before I can sensibly use it as a model railway room. Posh new doors have been fitted though, so at least I have made a start.

I adjusted the end of one of the boards over the weekend, as it was not quite sitting properly with its neighbour. There is now a 1 or 2mm gap between the boards, where the rail ends are now too long and need shortening. Otherwise, everything is looking OK. I ran my Model Rail Sentinel as far as I could along the track and everything is running fine so far!

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:57 am

Just a few words about the concept, which I must admit has been a little vague so far!

I needed a project where my imagination could run riot, free from some of the usual constraints of building a 'proper' railway - something where I could experiment a lot and build models of unusual things. This is how the Neversay tramway idea came about - an imaginary line in a colonial setting.

For what its worth, the imaginary location is in the southern Indian Ocean, on the site of a huge underground ridge called Broken Ridge, roughly at the same latitude as Perth, Australia and the southern tip of South Africa. It will be called the South Indies.

a-elpr4rgs.jpg


There are several places in this part of the world where ridges and plateaus do break the surface, most notably the very cold and inhospitable Kerguelen Islands further to the south west.

As for the layout, the idea is a passenger terminus at the end of 3 lines of the tramway. There is also a connection to the main line, run by the Government Railways. A freight line carries on a short distance to the train ferry terminal at the harbour. The ferry would be a short cut across a bay to the main part of the mainland. Travelling by land would be a very long way round.

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This should give great operating potential. Apart from the passenger traffic on the tramway, there would be main line freight to and from the ferry. Light engine and empty stock movements to and from the ferry would also take place, as the Government Railway would need to transfer stock via the ferry to and from other parts of the mainland for servicing etc. Incidentally, you should think of the 'Tramway' concept much like those in Australia - not so much a tram as a local railway built by the locals, rather than by the Government.

There are several RTR locomotives suitable for this project used overseas including the Bachmann Austerity, ROD, 'J94' , Model Rail Sentinel and USATC 0-6-0T. A reasonable number of kits are also suitable. Once I have built up a lot more confidence, scratchbuilding almost anything could be possible, including standard gauge Double Fairlies, Kitson Meyers etc. These are probably a very long way off though - if I ever get around to them at all.

That's it then. Sorry, it is far from what people expect from a P4 layout, but its my layout and Rule 1 applies. :D

Edited to include 'It will be called the South Indies.' which I forgot earlier :?
Last edited by Armchair Modeller on Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Flymo748
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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:26 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:That's it then. Sorry, it is far from what people expect from a P4 layout, but its my layout and Rule 1 applies.


It certainly works for me. As for expectations, each to their own. Have you met that Mr Harrap?

Cheers
Flymo
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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:39 pm

Thanks Flymo. :thumb

Mr Harrap and I are unknown to each other, though I have admired his work greatly through forums and Snooze. Most of my work is still only in my mind, so I have a long way to go to catch up with him.

p.s. I forgot the smiley at the end of my last post, which has now been added!

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:12 pm

I had an extensive session on the layout this afternoon. First job was to slightly modify the alignment of one of the tracks through the loop. I hadn't quite got the rails in the right place, making the curve look a little flat when the layout was viewed end-on. The sleepers were in the right place, so just the rails and chairs had to be moved. That worked successfully. Now it looks a lot better. Here is a photo. The Sentinel is on the modified curve.

a-DSCF4987.jpg
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Then followed an extensive running session, first with the track testing wagon, then with the Sentinel and my Class 20 diesel. Fast or slow, it all went very well thank goodness 8-)

Then, I tried my SLW Class 24. I bought this for sentimental reasons as my first ever model loco was one of these - the Lone Star version. Generally, it ran fine but persistently derailed in one place, but only in one direction and with the 'A' end leading. After carefully looking at my track and bearing in mind everything else ran impeccably, I suspect an out of gauge wheel set. I haven't yet plucked up the courage to dismantle the loco to find out though! It really has no place on Neversay, but deserves a better role than as a very expensive track tester.... :( .

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:53 pm

Stock conversions and experiments seem to be going reasonably well, so it is time to do a bit more work on the layout.

I have done some minor rewiring. Originally, the two turnouts at the entrance to the layout were wired so that one frog's polarity was partially dependent on the other. After playing with the layout for a while, I realised this was a bit too restrictive on operations, so they are now totally independent.

Next in line is the job of finishing off the 3-way turnout at the other end of the layout. Looking through previous posts, I realised that I had never photographed the finished turnout operating mechanisms very closely. Here is one, showing the single blade turnout and the operating mechanism.

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A piece of 0.6mm o.d. brass tube provides the pull. A 0.4mm rivet was passed through a hole in the point blade and soldered into the tube. The tube passes through a hole in the stock rail. A piece of 0.4mm wire is soldered in the other end of the tube. This has a loop formed at the end to hold the operating wire from the Blue Point mechanism below the baseboard.... which looks like this

aDSCF5023.jpg
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Eventually, the loop will be hidden by planking. I plan to put dummy Williams point levers (Southwark Models from Roxey) in place eventually.

I have also started work on the cassette system for the fiddle yard. One cassette has been constructed. The cassette will rest on a wooden surface made out of an old IKEA shelf when in use. The photo here shows the IKEA shelf temporarily held in position with clamps whilst I check the height etc.

aDSCF5019.jpg
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The 3-way may take a while to get right, so please be patient!

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:02 pm

The latest copy of Scalefour News dropped on my doormat this morning and with it the list of layouts for Scaleforum 2017 - including my own. Terry asked me to bring Neversay along as a layout under construction.

Progress deliberately slowed down a lot this year - otherwise many of the features that are likely to be of interest to people building their own layouts might have disappeared under layers of ballast, scenery and model guano by now. :D

Progress with the trackwork, cassettes etc. is going well, so the layout should be fully operational for Scaleforum, with the option of running in either DC or DCC mode. I also plan to do more work on stock and buildings. I may (hopefully) have some interesting work on couplings to demonstrate too.

If anyone wishes to try their stock on my obscure pointwork and wildly super-elevated track, they are more than welcome.

In the meantime I won't be giving very frequent updates on here - come along to Scaleforum!

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Steve Carter
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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Steve Carter » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:45 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:The latest copy of Scalefour News dropped on my doormat this morning and with it the list of layouts for Scaleforum 2017 - including my own. Terry asked me to bring Neversay along as a layout under construction.

Progress deliberately slowed down a lot this year - otherwise many of the features that are likely to be of interest to people building their own layouts might have disappeared under layers of ballast, scenery and model guano by now. :D

Progress with the trackwork, cassettes etc. is going well, so the layout should be fully operational for Scaleforum, with the option of running in either DC or DCC mode. I also plan to do more work on stock and buildings. I may (hopefully) have some interesting work on couplings to demonstrate too.

If anyone wishes to try their stock on my obscure pointwork and wildly super-elevated track, they are more than welcome.

In the meantime I won't be giving very frequent updates on here - come along to Scaleforum!


This is a great way of learning how things can be done. Looking forward to seeing this 'work in progress' at Scaleforum.

Well done.

Steve
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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:31 pm

Many thanks, Steve.

To be honest, I am really looking forward to being at Scaleforum with 'Neversay'. Should be a really interesting and enjoyable weekend!

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:18 am

Armchair Modeller wrote: Should be a really interesting and enjoyable weekend!


We try to make it so - for the visitors, the traders and the exhibitors and for most I think it works out that way, :D

Terry Bendall

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RobM
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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby RobM » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:15 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:The latest copy of Scalefour News dropped on my doormat this morning and with it the list of layouts for Scaleforum 2017 - including my own. Terry asked me to bring Neversay along as a layout under construction.

Richard, looking forward to seeing Neversay in the flesh and having a chat. As Terry says, it will be a very enjoyable weekend, shattering but really enjoyable.
Rob
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:17 pm

Looking forward to seeing your layout Richard :) - lots of interesting ideas in the one layout and an interesting subject as well. Should go down well at Scalefourum. Good luck with Scalefourum - works in progress are always interesting and most modellers who actually build stuff appreciate what you are doing, so I am sure you will get a good reception. :)

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:04 pm

Many thanks Allan. That's very kind.

Richard

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Re: Primitive Cool

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:49 pm

Just a photo of Neversay to show more or less what it will be like at Scaleforum

aT-2.jpg


I will make just a little more progress before the exhibition, but otherwise that's about it - very much a layout under construction, as requested!

I gave most of it a coat of grey primer, as the white was making photography difficult. The fiddle yard is now nicely varnished though.


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