Brettell Road - Back to wagons - and a correction.

[Jeremy Good]

Jim

Another option might be plastic bin liner material - I seem to recall Mark Tatlow used this on the top of his Mark 1/Gresley coach corridor connections and it was flexible enough to "give" when the connections were compressed. Perhaps Mark will confirm whether I've got that right but I think it is shown on his OMWB thread.

Jeremy

[jim s-w]

More details on the Lowmac compensation shown last time;

This is the underside. It's best to set everything up with normal bearings first so that the rise height is correct. Then a simple case of adding a bit of scrap etch for the axle to rest on.

Once happy you can replace the bearing with ones that have been filed into a slot. This means the ends of the axle can move up and down, it really is that simple! On the subject of track holding...

This is the Chivers kit for the LMS fish van (diagram 2115) of course I've done plenty of 6 wheeled bogies before but never a 6 wheeled wagon. Brassmasters do a clemenson chassis for 6 wheeled vehicles but as the fish van has stretcher bars I didn't think it would work. To the right of the picture is a Bill Bedford pedestal suspension unit converted to inside bearings, the outer axles use normal suspension units. The plan is to join them all with wire so that the center axle can slide side to side. Speaking of 6 wheeled vans and clemenson chassis...

A black country icon, the Palethorpes sausage van. this uses the ancient Hornby model (well 2 of them) and chivers sideframes. You can see from the picture where the 2 vans have been cut up to correct the length of the van as supplied. Note also the strange backwards brake lever.

Where the fish van is quite open underneath these vans are not. They were fitted with onboard lighting and internal fans thus the dynamo and battery boxes. It's all a bit cramped really!! Speaking of palethorpes...

The 6 wheeled vans bigger brother. Surprisingly you only need 2 vans to do one of these too! the underframe is from the comet kit. And finally on the subject of bogie vans...

the good old Lima GUV, fitted with new bogies and underframe details.

[Noel]

Note also the strange backwards brake lever.

Jim, I assume you derived this from the photo of the Insulated Milk Van in David Jenkinson's LMS Coaches? That photo has always bothered me because
1. Left hand levers were not permitted for most new construction by 1935 under BoT rules which required RH levers in general. Even where vehicles were technically exempt from this, RH levers were still the norm.
2. The geometry doesn't work unless you have a LH plain lever the other side or a second Morton clutch lever. Two Morton levers seems very odd, and quite unnecessary.
3. The same chassis, presumably, was used for other contemporary 6-wheel LMS passenger underframes, such as the fish van, which undoubtedly has a RHS plain lever on one side.
4) Why would anybody create a LH Morton lever, which would require unique parts?

However, I have now found the in MRJ 92, which shows a LH Morton lever, so I'm forced to accept that its is correct. The post-war Fish Van is different.

Edited to amend the conclusion.

[John Palmer]

Examination of the photograph of M38735 in Vol.3 of Historic Carriage Drawings clearly shows the lever guard to the left of a Morton clutch, indicating that these vehicles were indeed fitted with a left hand lever and second Morton clutch. The Palethorpes vans differ from the LMS X-Fish design in having footboards beneath the doors, which leads me to wonder whether, when the vehicles were designed, there was perceived to be difficulty in operating a brake lever having its handle located under the footboard - might such a difficulty have arisen from the layout of the Palethorpes loading dock?

Anyhow, good to see models of these uncommon vehicles - any chance of a model of one of the two GW Palethorpes vans? Jim's post prompted me to conduct a bit of internet research upon them, which revealed that both W2801W and W2802W remained intact at least into 1966 and probably 1967, both having met their end in Dai Woodham's yard at Barry.

Edited to add: my shot of W2801W at Barry; date probably 1967, possibly 1966 - wish I'd had a better camera; Instamatic film cartridges' quality was pretty hit and miss:

W2801W.jpg

[jim s-w]

Hi Noel

Yes it doesn't make a lot of sense does it? There's images of the actual vans in the same book but all from the same side. Both sides have the Morton clutch, it all seems very odd.

Jim

[mickeym]

With regard to the weather sheets on open cabs, I see that Mikkel on his ever interesting Farthing blog has used some 0.05mm aluminium sheeting to replicate wagon sheets
http://farthinglayouts.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/fake-news-and-wagons-sheets.html#more

[jim s-w]

Thanks Mickey

I've used foil for tarps before, the issue with a rain sheet is it needs to connect to both loco and tender but not to affect their movement.

Cheers

Jim

[Colin Parks]

Hi Jim,

re. modelling materials for tarpaulins, it might prove too smooth for the application in your case, but it might be worth trying the thin rubbery film found in Bachmann Branchline packaging. It can be tinted on the underside with marker pens, with black ink producing a charcoal colour through the translucent film. This material has one advantage over some other suggestions in that it has enough resilience to only need fixing along one edge(i.e.the front edge).

All the best,

Colin

[jim s-w]

So lets start with a buildings and a request, When I posted the image of the pub at night I was asked for a picture of the area in the light so here it is (sorry it took so long Rob)


This also shows the water tower I was working on too, speaking of which…

Remember the lower part of the Hornby water tower I was fiddling with and how I didn't worry too much about details? This is the reason why - you can just about see it, if you know where to look!

Moving on to some wagons. This is the Chivers kit for a Dia1674 LMS Bolster wagon. A nice simple kit to build although given the long wheelbase I did opt for Bill Bedford springing.

This was supposed to be a quick win. I liked the local livery and thought that it would break up the sea of grey and bauxite wagons. Its a Bachmann product but an older one that was stretched to fit their 10ft wheelbase steel chassis. Some careful cutting in 4 places lost some of the extra length and while it is still too long it does now fit the longer Cambrian wooden chassis.

I've finished off the vans I was working on too. Not a lot more to add about them really but here's the pictures. LMS 6 wheel fish van - Chivers Kit.

LMS GUV

Palethorpes 6 wheel van

And the larger bogie version - Transfers are from Cambridge custom transfers. Sheet BL153 covers the 6 wheel vans while sheet BL154 covers the bogie vans.

[RobM]

So lets start with a buildings and a request, When I posted the image of the pub at night I was asked for a picture of the area in the light so here it is (sorry it took so long Rob)

Thanks Jim and all looking good, including the wagons.

Remember the lower part of the Hornby water tower I was fiddling with and how I didn't worry too much about details? This is the reason why - you can just about see it, if you know where to look!

Still trying to find it...........

[martin goodall]

I am rather behind in catching up with this thread.

I was interested to see the compensation arrangement for Jim's Lowmac as illustrated in the photo posted on 8 February, because I compensated a GWR Loriot P (ex-Wrenn RTR model) in exactly the same way over 40 years ago. My reason for mentioning this is that this method of compensation did not work for me, and the wagon repeatedly derailed. (I was using P4 wheels in those days, of course!)

This wagon has been languishing in a box ever since (partly because it was 'out of period' and therefore a low priority for any further attention).

Much more recently I have built the Dapol kit of the BR Lowmac, with fixed suspension and plenty of weight. No problems so far (but I am now using EM wheels, which does make a difference.)

[jim s-w]

Sounds like an ideal way to test your solution Martin. You have a wagon that you know doesn't run. Why not fit EM wheels and see if it does then?

[billbedford]

Much more recently I have built the Dapol kit of the BR Lowmac, with fixed suspension and plenty of weight. No problems so far (but I am now using EM wheels, which does make a difference.)

Yep, if you get enough weight into a wagon, you can always use the natural deformation of the plastic as a pseudo-sprung compensation.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Much more recently I have built the Dapol kit of the BR Lowmac, with fixed suspension and plenty of weight. No problems so far (but I am now using EM wheels, which does make a difference.)

Yep, if you get enough weight into a wagon, you can always use the natural deformation of the plastic as a pseudo-sprung compensation.

You should always remember to put them on axle stands when not in use, to avoid permanent distortion of the wheel centres and wobbly running.

[jim s-w]

A plastic kit, especially one with a thin-ish floor isn't really that rigid anyway. It's the same with diesel bogies. Some like the Hornby 50 have outside bearing and are quite rigid. But others with inside bearings and that soapy plastic RTR manufacturers use are never going to be all that rigid when you think about it.

Cheers

Jim

[jim s-w]

Recently attention has returned to the main warehouse with the top floor being finished off and the ceiling added.


I decided on a sort of rest room that wasn't lit. I quite liked the idea of light from deeper in the building coming through the internal windows and bouncing off the tables and chairs.

On the main floor, again just a hint of activity.


After much experimentation and having tried different materials (thanks to those who made suggestions) I have settled on a black surgical glove for the Kirtley weather hood.


The 2 latest loco's together. Is it me or does the pannier look like it dwarfs the Kirtley? Finally below another mood shot!

[PeteT]

That latex looks the part Jim (not a phrase I've said, nor am likely to say, to any other bloke ) - thanks for sharing.

I like the opening window on the warehouse too, very effective. It has made me all the more determined to make sure at least one of mine is open on my engine shed.

[dal-t]

With atmosphere like that, no-one's going to ask how you happened to have a black surgical glove ...

[Jol Wilkinson]

Where do you get black surgical gloves? I can see a possible use for the material in coach ganways.

[Pannier Tank]

Is it me or does the pannier look like it dwarfs the Kirtley?

The 94xx is a bit of a beast and you've made a fine model of the Lima Body (and of course the Kirtley), well done.

[Philbax]

Love the atmosphere here. What were the basis of your palethorpes vas, thy look great
Phil

[jim s-w]

Thanks all.

The palethorpes vans are based on the Hornby one. Scroll back up to the top of the page.

Cheers

Jim

[Mike Garwood]

Jim

What glue did you use for the latex onto the roof of the engine? - superglue? It looks very impressive...

I wonder if you wave some heat at the latex it would hold the folds put into it?

regards

Mike

[PeteT]

Where do you get black surgical gloves? I can see a possible use for the material in coach ganways.

Theyre available on ebay Jol. About £10 for a pack of 100 from a cursory glance (though some listings come up for latex free nitrile options).

Could be a call for 1 of us to buy a pack and distribute a few around at S4N. I expect I could cope with 10 for trialing with, or even 5. I'd be happy to do the honours, and will be there both days.

[Paul Townsend]

As you have volunteered to buy a pack, I will relieve you of a few.