Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

RedDragon
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Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

Postby RedDragon » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:32 pm

I have a batch of Exactoscale wagon wheels (inc. metal inserts) to assemble to their pin point axles. Any recommendations for the best glue to use to attach them, I am assuming superglue but which is the best manufacturers product and grade to use? Looked at the Loctite range but there seems to be a number of grades and unsure which is best. Noted that Hafix's and Rocket glues may also have a suitable grade?

I am assuming it would also be beneficial to roughen the axle (with emery papaer) just to the outside of the overmoulded sleeve to give the adhesive something to grab.

Any recomendations would be appreciated.

Thanks, SteveT

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Will L
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Re: Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

Postby Will L » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:03 pm

RedDragon wrote:I have a batch of Exactoscale wagon wheels (inc. metal inserts) to assemble to their pin point axles. Any recommendations for the best glue to use to attach them, I am assuming superglue but which is the best manufacturers product and grade to use? Looked at the Loctite range but there seems to be a number of grades and unsure which is best. Noted that Hafix's and Rocket glues may also have a suitable grade?

I am assuming it would also be beneficial to roughen the axle (with emery papaer) just to the outside of the overmoulded sleeve to give the adhesive something to grab.


Not really super glues, these wheels are designed to be assembled with Loctite retainers which technically aren't super glues, these have 3 digit product numbers starting with a 6 C&L stock 603 but you will find others about. This application isn't really stressing the capabilities of these glues so any retainer you can find at a reasonable price ought to do.

No need to roughen the axle, the retaining compounds don't stick to the axle but expand until they have produced what is effective a good interference fit.

Knuckles
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Re: Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

Postby Knuckles » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:29 pm

Exactoscale wagon wheels are my current favourite.

Thinner wheels and axles look better and easy to assemble.

I use Loctite 243 medium strength thread locker and so far have had no issues. I know 603 is almost always suggested but I chose a medium as it is more forgiving.

I had to remove a gear from an axle once and just managed it for example.

I'm not that experienced with thread lockers though so feel free to ignore my method!





For super glues I don't think you can beat Hafix or Powerbond 806. I use them both and can't decide which one is the best...maybe they are exactly the same compound. Much better than el cheapo 10 for 99p cyno' anyway.

If anyone knows a better super please let us know.
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Guy Rixon
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Re: Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

Postby Guy Rixon » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:35 pm

Thread lockers and shaft retainers are not supposed to be interchangeable, so 243 is not really the right Loctite. However, as Will pointed out, the loading of the joint is small so it could work.

I would not expect to get an Exactoscale wheel off its axle intact, whatever I'd fixed it with. They're a bit more delicate than gears! (The Exactocscale loco wheels with precision tapers are a different case.) Therefore, I prefer to use an actual retainer.

EDIT: I checked the data sheets (http://www.loctite.co.uk/sea/content_data/93815_243EN.pdf and http://www.loctite.co.uk/sea/content_data/93772_603EN.pdf. Loctite 243 and 603 are indeed distinct, albeit related, chemicals. The compressive strength of the 603 is about 3 times that of the 243 and the resistance to oil and such is slightly higher for the 603.

For both compounds, Henkel say "This product is not normally recommended for use on plastics (particularly thermoplastic materials where stress cracking of the plastic could result)." This is new: they used to quote bond strengths for steel-to-plastic bonds.

Knuckles
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Re: Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

Postby Knuckles » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:04 pm

Guy Rixon wrote:Thread lockers and shaft retainers are not supposed to be interchangeable, so 243 is not really the right Loctite. However, as Will pointed out, the loading of the joint is small so it could work..............................................................................................................
For both compounds, Henkel say "This product is not normally recommended for use on plastics (particularly thermoplastic materials where stress cracking of the plastic could result)." This is new: they used to quote bond strengths for steel-to-plastic bonds.



Hi Guy :) (What ale you drinking in your picture? I'm drinking Gentleman Jack at this moment)

I don't disagree with you in its official suitability. As I say everyone almost unanimously suggests Loctite 603 and it is thus probably the correct and best to go with - I just don't feel comfortable with something so permanent.

My wagon wheels thus far haven't failed and the gears on driving axles that have no grub have been fine too, but when fiddling I have managed to just about wrench the gear off and start over or tweak. I don't think I'd be able with 603, and if a 243 fit does fail then it isn't the end of the world to me. I can just reapply or use 603.

I can understand in exhibition context though you will want things as good as possible. Exactscale plastic hasn't melted or anything yet either.


EDIT: Thought I might add that I don't use oil to lubricate wagon axles seeing as oil is a consideration with Loctite. I use Iain Rice's method of dry shaved graphite. Works a treat. However I have been using it for some drive gears so maybe that in itself may be a reason to move to 603. I'll wait until I have an issue first.
Last edited by Knuckles on Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
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Alan Turner
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Re: Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

Postby Alan Turner » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:49 pm

A word of warning. These wheels need care in assembly - see INS 551 from C&L.

603 is the specified retainer.

They must be assembled using a BTB gauge as otherwise they will have too small a BB.

regards

Alan

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stevecarr
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Re: Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

Postby stevecarr » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:25 pm

It took me a while to cotton on to using axle spacing washers, 4cw 701a..

The result gives perfect b to b . Well, for me any way.

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

Postby Guy Rixon » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:52 pm

Knuckles wrote:Thought I might add that I don't use oil to lubricate wagon axles seeing as oil is a consideration with Loctite. I use Iain Rice's method of dry shaved graphite. Works a treat. However I have been using it for some drive gears so maybe that in itself may be a reason to move to 603. I'll wait until I have an issue first.


The graphite is an interesting idea. How do you get it and apply it?

Loctite 603 has reasonable resistance to (motor) oil once bonded. Loctite 638, another variety of retainer is supposed to bond through oil films on the metal!

The beer, BTW, was Doom Bar; I was in the Utmost West at the time.

Knuckles
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Re: Exactoscale Wagon Wheels - Glue to Axle

Postby Knuckles » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:57 pm

Guy Rixon wrote:
Knuckles wrote:Thought I might add that I don't use oil to lubricate wagon axles seeing as oil is a consideration with Loctite. I use Iain Rice's method of dry shaved graphite. Works a treat. However I have been using it for some drive gears so maybe that in itself may be a reason to move to 603. I'll wait until I have an issue first.


The graphite is an interesting idea. How do you get it and apply it?

Loctite 603 has reasonable resistance to (motor) oil once bonded. Loctite 638, another variety of retainer is supposed to bond through oil films on the metal!

The beer, BTW, was Doom Bar; I was in the Utmost West at the time.




Aah, Doom Bar. Good choice, Sir. :D
I like a bit of Doom too. London Pride, Abbot Ale, Leffe and Pedigree are my 4 current favourites.

For the graphite I literally shave the 'lead' of a pencil straight into the bearing/bush cups.
Iain Rice described it as a 'dry lubricant' if such a thing even exists and I can say it works well with wagons for some reason. I'm not so sure on locomotives - maybe a bad idea.


I'll stick to my 243 for now though. Any issues and I'll just upgrade to the harder stuff.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320


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