47206 - The Fully Sprung, Hybrid Class 47

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James Wells
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47206 - The Fully Sprung, Hybrid Class 47

Postby James Wells » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:08 pm

For various reasons (which are mentioned on my blog if anyone was interested!) I've done very little modelling this year. However, I have be re-enthused with a couple of items for my planned layout, based in the Scunthorpe area in North Lincolnshire in 1992 - West Halton Sidings.

Some members may recall one of my class 47s in the display case at Scaleforum a couple of years ago, it was an Immingham petroleum machine in typical early 1990s condition. It used a Lima model as a base with an extensively modified and rebuilt underframe to represent an underframe which had had its water tanks removed. Gareth Bayer wrote about this method fifteen years in DEMU Update. Although newer models of the type have since appeared, the Lima model is still fundamentally correct and well worth considering as a base for modelling the class. If you already have one or more in your 'one day' pile, it becomes a very good value project too!

IMGP5154.JPG


Since then a couple of extra items have become available from Shawplan - notably the cab side window surrounds. These make it much easier to capture the right look of the cab and are a world away from the moulded Lima frames (which are rather at odds with the subtle and delicate details on the rest of the body). The difference is obvious I think!

Window Frames.jpg


So, with all this in mind, I decided to use Lima models as a basis for a couple of class 47s for West Halton. The first is a bit of an odd bod... It'll be 47380 Immingham running as it was just before withdrawal in the summer of 1992. It had oval buffers for traffic on the Barton on Humber branch, cut away buffer beams and extra cab vents. These last two resulted from the loco being used for trials to improve working conditions for train crew. The 47s had seem to have had a terrible reputation for draughts, and the modifications which were repeated on many other locos seem to have proved successful.

This is the condition in which the model should end up -

Image
47380 92-06-27 Manchester Victoria by Chippenham Lodekka, on Flickr

There have been various changes made so far - a less obvious one which has a big visual impact is making the horn grille 'lean forward' correctly. Not an obvious thing intially, but it helps capture the 'face' of the loco. When combined with the other changes, new handrails, window frames, etc, it really does make quite a difference.

Vents.jpg


Next, attention will be turned to the underframe now the body is most of the way there and the best thing? It's not even cost me fifty quid yet even with the new parts and some lovely steel tyred Ultrascales which came via our deputy chairman! :D

IMGP6626.JPG


Hopefully more updates will follow very soon!
Last edited by James Wells on Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:33 am, edited 14 times in total.

Crepello
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Re: North Lincolnshire Diesels

Postby Crepello » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:57 am

I imagine the cab draughts were because of the 'ram air' in the horn cowl being at quite high pressure with the loco at speed, and finding any way out that it could. Presumably the horn piping had to pierce the main roof canopy and lead to the cab interior, so that would be the easiest route for the air to flow. The extra vents are positioned just where they would break into the horn cowls and allow the air to exhaust to the outside of the loco instead.

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James Wells
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Re: North Lincolnshire Diesels

Postby James Wells » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:08 am

In Class 47 - 50 Years of Locomotive History there's an interesting passage about the modifications made to 47380. The main issue and cause of draughts seems to have been air forced up into voids behind the driver's desk and then through any available gap as a result of panels not being properly refitted following repairs as well as insulation materials degrading over time. No reference is made to the additional roof vents, but it doesn't seem that these were really repeated. The only other one I've noticed is 47798 Prince William at the NRM, but only at one end - this could be in connection with the other equipment which the loco carries over standard machines though.

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James Wells
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Re: North Lincolnshire Diesels

Postby James Wells » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:30 pm

A little bit of progress with the underframe on 47380 - it's quite satisfying making such a difference with just Plastikard and wire :)

IMG_20150805_205619.jpg


Sorry for the rather poor phone image, but it shows the underframe!

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James Wells
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Re: North Lincolnshire Diesels

Postby James Wells » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:19 pm

August 2015.jpg


A long term project nearly completion - a hybrid class 40 which uses a combination of Lima and Bachmann parts along with quite a few Shawplan etchings.

I've used most of the Lima body, with Bachmann nose ends. I think these are slightly underscale in terms of height, but when combined with Shawplan's etchings, the result is a nicely proportion cab and nose area. And the Laserglaze makes glazing very easy indeed - I used to hate having to cut out the six windows by hand, only the knowledge that it would look good afterwards kept me going!

The unpainted view gives an idea of the various different components involved. The main advantage of the Lima body is that the tooling along the roof is delightfully subtle and is, I think, better than many other models which have followed it from other RTR manufacturers.

Just a few little items and it'll be ready for weathering :)

IMGP4547.JPG

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Horsetan
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Re: Hybrid Class 40

Postby Horsetan » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:33 am

Reworked shell looks grand. I must drag my own attempt out again......
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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James Wells
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Re: Hybrid Class 40

Postby James Wells » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:56 pm

A real day of progress today - one of those rare days where a good few hours of uninterrupted modelling could take place! Actually, aside from the opportunity to actually make a bit of progress, it's amazing how refreshing and satisfying it was - it reaffirms my belief that our hobbies are a very good form of therapy.

IMGP7899.JPG


The Lima model has been transformed byShawplan's etches around the cab and the windscreens and windows - hopefully when anyone looks at the model it won't be obviosu that it has a Lima model at its heart.

IMGP7911.JPG


And quite a momentous day, two locos in primer and ready to be painted!

IMG_20151118_142425.jpg

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John Donnelly
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Re: Rebuilding Class 47s

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:09 pm

Very nice James, you still not got that Consett 24 finished ;)

John

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James Wells
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Re: Rebuilding Class 47s

Postby James Wells » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:44 pm

John Donnelly wrote:Very nice James


Thank you!

The loco has now been painted - just awaiting transfers now.

John Donnelly wrote:you still not got that Consett 24 finished ;)


Not yet!

With the latest news of the SLW class 24, would it even be worth completing?

DSCF1324a.jpg

DougN
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Re: Rebuilding Class 47s

Postby DougN » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:25 pm

James you have got so far through the process I think it looks great so why not finish it :thumb

No matter how good the new RTR version is, your version will still be a piece of your modelling history... I have seen things stuffed into boxes that their owners have never got round to finishing! OK I am guilty of this as things get to such a point which is either difficult or running and the enthusiasm needs to be rebuilt to finish them off. :evil:

The other thing is your work on the diesels is fantastic! :thumb
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

Terry Bendall
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Re: Rebuilding Class 47s

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:14 am

jameswells83 wrote:With the latest news of the SLW class 24, would it even be worth completing?


I suppose this all depends on what you want to achieve. :) How accurate is your modified model compared with the prototype and with the new SLW model? Some will go a long way to achieve what they want in a model, whilst others will be content with a straight out of the box model, perhaps with a few minor changes to improve things. Personally I dislike having part finished projects hanging around although I have a few of those. Not finishing things can happen for all sorts of good reasons too numerous to go into here but I think there is always a sense of satisfaction when a long running project does get finished.

Terry Bendall

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John Donnelly
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Re: Rebuilding Class 47s

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:55 am

jameswells83 wrote:With the latest news of the SLW class 24, would it even be worth completing


My thoughts as well at the moment, I have 4 Bachmann 24s awaiting conversion but I'm a bit loath to start them now...

John

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iak
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Re: Rebuilding Class 47s

Postby iak » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:21 am

I'm in the finish it camp.
One can never have too many locomotives :thumb
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
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James Wells
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Re: Rebuilding Class 47s

Postby James Wells » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:56 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:Personally I dislike having part finished projects hanging around although I have a few of those.


You'd hate my workshop! :lol:

Seriously though, it's been like this a long time. I bought it when the model first appeared, in 2001! It was my first P4 loco and this makes me feel I ought to finish. An earlier view, before I addressed the roof -

Image

I had ideas of something based on the Consett iron ore workings, I bought a number of Bradwell ore hoppers as well as acquiring enough parts for a 9F using the same method as Tim Shackleton did in his Plastic Bodied Locomotives book! My interest in steelm workings is still there - my current project will be based on steel traffic, albeit a bit further south and thirty years hence;

http://eastmoor.blogspot.co.uk/p/west-h ... dings.html

I'd redo certain things to match newer builds - the lamp irons would go and that chunky Bachmann MU plug would be discarded for sure, but otherwise it was heading in the right direction I think. The scratchbuilt battery boxes and fuel tank wasn't something I'd seen, at this time, anyone attempt on a Bachmann model. So it certainly deserves to be finished...

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Tor Giffard
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Re: Tyne Dock Class 24

Postby Tor Giffard » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:50 am

....one thought James...the Bachmann and SLW models don't look good next to each other, with the bodyside height/roof curve difference....would that jar with you once a mix of them were running on your layout?

Dave

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James Wells
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Re: Tyne Dock Class 24

Postby James Wells » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:14 am

Tor Giffard wrote:....one thought James...the Bachmann and SLW models don't look good next to each other, with the bodyside height/roof curve difference....would that jar with you once a mix of them were running on your layout?


What layout?! :lol:

Seriously though, mixing Bachmann and my hybrid class 25 would probably jar too. However, I do think it might be nice finish it, mainly because it was the first loco I converted when I started with P4.

To be honest, £175/£195 is really more than I would be able to justify to myself in one go. We could have a nice weekend away on that! Fortunately they didn't last until 1992 in North Lincolnshire so it shouldn't be an issue!

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jim s-w
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Re: Tyne Dock Class 24

Postby jim s-w » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:24 pm

Having seen your previous stuff James I've no hesitation in urging you to get this one finished. This is after all a society for modellers so surely we should be encouraging people to do that rather than abandon already started projects just to go shopping!

I knew about the bachmann 94xx when I started my Lima one and I'm sure that the bachmann one will be an easier route to a decent model but that's not the point. I wanted to do something with it because I've had it since childhood and I wanted to see what could be done with it (and my parents brought it for me). There's no pre-requisite to have the latest toys and having them doesn't automatically guarantee a better model. A loco, no matter how good one thinks it is, is just a small element of the end result.

Cheers

Jim
Last edited by jim s-w on Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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James Wells
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Re: Tyne Dock Class 24

Postby James Wells » Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:21 pm

jim s-w wrote:Having seen your previous stuff James I've no hesitation in urging you to get this one finished.


Thanks Jim :)

jim s-w wrote:This is after all a society for modellers so surely we should be encouraging people to do that rather than abandon already started projects just to go shopping!


Once you've invested time in a project, there's a lot to be said for finishing projects - the only thing I have ever completely given up on was a Q Kits Baby Deltic! It was truly awful! That aside, I have a lot of part completed projects awaiting their turn.

jim s-w wrote:I knew about the bachmann 94xx when I started my Lima one and I'm sure that the bachmann one will be an easier route to a decent model but that's not the point. I wanted to do something with it because I've had it since childhood and I wanted to see what could be done with it (and my parents brought it for me). There's no pre-requisite to have the latest toys and having them doesn't automatically guarantee a better model. A loco, no matter how good one thinks it is, is just a small element of the end result.


The personal connection with models has a lot going for it - it can be the origin of a model, like your 94XX, or knowing the real thing. It can give a model 'soul', more so than a straight kit build might in some circumstances.

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James Wells
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Tyne Dock Class 24

Postby James Wells » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:19 pm

I found this on Flickr -

Image
D5103, Tyne Yard DSP, Apr 69 by Jonathan Martin, on Flickr

It would suggest that it retained its valances for longer than I'd thought. I chose the model as it didn't have the valances! Bugger...

Hmmm... Another option might be to simply model it later in its life if I do get on with it!

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James Wells
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Re: Tyne Dock Class 24

Postby James Wells » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:31 pm

Image

And for something completely different!

It's been an interesting exercise refurbishing older 'Playmobil Trains' items. Compared with our 4mm stuff, they are huge! At the heart of the toys is LGB's engineering, the track was straight from LGB's range, controllers simply rebranded Playmobil and I'm fairly sure that the running gear for locos was basically LGB too. It means that spares and additiional track present no real problems. Playmobil still use the basic wagon chassis as part of their range now, so axle guards, wheels and couplings (the latter seem very vulnerable) can be had for a few pounds a wagon/coach.

This might have been the loco's first decent run in years! Since we bought it a couple of months ago in a second hand set, it has only run up and down a very short test track to check it before and after a service. It was very impressive just how well it ran, especially on track which has been stored for clearly a long time with heavily tarnished rails. Despite this, it was flawless. Not bad for a model which is at least twenty years old and had been stored for a long period.

Testing was with it on the floor going round the lounge!It probably didn't need as much 'testing' is it received, and seeing a thirty year woman sat in middle floor wrapping presents trying to pretend the train wasn't getting on her nerves was quite entertaining! :lol: 'Testing' was great fun! If you ever want a lovely reminder of just how fun our hobby is, go and play with trains on the living room floor! Brio, Playmobil, Lego, whatever, great fun!

Anway, now it's all wrapped up and hopefully a little boy will be pleased and surprised when he sees it.

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James Wells
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"Frodingham Deltics"

Postby James Wells » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:10 pm

DSCF5075.JPG


My layout is set, or will be, in 1992 in North Lincolnshire - this was the last summer of class 20 operation in the area. They were often in quite a tatty state, the first one of mine, 20104, was heavily faded and quite visible rust in places. This is one of my Dad's photos and show how tatty it looked - very faded with its BR blue coming through.

JSW_0003 - Copy.jpg


This is the progress so far - it uses a Bachmann model as the starting point, rewheeled with Black Beetle wheels. The Bachmann model is a very good likeness as it comes -

I've made good use Shawplan's parts, notably the replacement etched bonnet doors and roof grille. All handrails have been replaced -those on the cab end were rather distorted plastic mouldings and had to go - the result is much more pleasing I hope. Bonnet handrails have been replaced - although the stanchions aren't quite correct, the finer appearance is worth the small inaccuracy I think. The bends and kinks are modelled from the prototype and are meant to be like that!

IMGP8260.JPG


My SLR tends to make colours appear rather rich and this phone photo reflects the actual colours far better... It gives a pleasing effect on 'real' railway photography but doesn't help here! The transfers are from Railtec (aside from the BR arrows which re Fox) and I can ehartily recommend Railtec's transfers - very, very impressed!

12496237_10153958968491212_8867865930117476180_o.jpg


The buffer beam details are yet to be added and it'll require final weathering to tie everything together but it's progressing nicely.
Last edited by James Wells on Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Craig Warton
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Re: "Frodingham Deltics"

Postby Craig Warton » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:51 pm

This is the sort of modelling that is (to me) inspiring. The effort involved in a rebuild like this is amazing and I really do like the attentuion to detail. While the basic outline needs to be correct, it is the little things that add up too.
I barely know one end of a diesel from the other and i sort of innocently assume that the RTR models are pretty good so it is always a bit of a shock seeing things like this and realising just how much work there is in correcting errors and improving detail.

Paint finish looks suitably disgusting too.

Keep up the good work James, I look forward to seeing much more.

Regards,

Craig W

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Alastairr
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Re: "Frodingham Deltics"

Postby Alastairr » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:53 am

James - just a quick note to say I really enjoyed your article in the Scalefour News on the Class 24/25 conversion, and reading your work here. Having a Bachmann 25, the Penbits kit and a set of Ultrascales it looks like all I am missing for my own project is a Hornby body - and a lot of patience!

Keep up the good work!

Alastair

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James Wells
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Re: "Frodingham Deltics"

Postby James Wells » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:50 am

Craig Warton wrote:Keep up the good work James, I look forward to seeing much more.


Thanks Craig! :)

Alastairr wrote:James - just a quick note to say I really enjoyed your article in the Scalefour News on the Class 24/25 conversion, and reading your work here. Having a Bachmann 25, the Penbits kit and a set of Ultrascales it looks like all I am missing for my own project is a Hornby body - and a lot of patience!

Keep up the good work!


Thank you!

The article was originally due to appear in the next issue of Bob Barlow's FRMR, buit sadly that never materialised. It was rather nice when Tim sent me an e-mail about it saying that "Bob really likes it" :)

Despite the appearance of the new SLW class 24 with hints of further 24s and 25s, I still think that this method has a lot going for it. And the cost will be less than a new top spec RTR one :)

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James Wells
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Re: "Frodingham Deltics"

Postby James Wells » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:19 pm

Recently completed Class 40 - D235 Apapa

Image

The body is mostly Lima with Bachmann nose ends running on a lowered original class 40 Bachmann chassis which has been rewheeled for P4. The body has been covered in Shawplan parts - Brian Hanson's detailing parts are always a pleasure to use and his class 37/40 windscreens and their associated backing plates really do make the model I think. But also the small details of the step an inspection plates on the buffers (Hornby Class 50 spares) also help add to the final result.

It represents D235 Apapa as it was early on in its career in British Railways green with small yellow warning panels. The grey roof is my usual cheat of using Halford's grey primer as a base but keeping it for the roof colour! Why add more layers of paint than we really need? Especially when we want as little paint as possible around those beautifully fine etchings by Shawplan. The fan grille is a lovely piece in its own right and deserves careful finishing. The warning panel yellow is Humbrol's Trainer Yellow and the bufferbeams are Humbrol Matt Red Brown - a nice subdued red which doesn't over power like normal buffer beam reds would.

Image

On top of this is a typical coat of dirt but with class 40 specific bits such as the leak around the cooling fan grille - very typical of the class when you begin looking.

I'll leave you to judge if the effort has been worth it.


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