Ideal starter wagon chassis?

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David B
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby David B » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:30 am

Flymo748 wrote:
. . . the brakeshoes are nowhere near the wheels for instance . . .


Well within your capabilities to remedy this, surely?

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Ian Everett
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby Ian Everett » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:05 am

Maybe a silly question but...

I've just made up some BB springing units for the first time for some fish vans for Humber Dock. In general I found them simple to put together and they seem to work well on my test plank, even with the unweighted plastic kits. However I found that the W-irons were very flimsy at the main bend, so I strengthened the inside of the bend with a thin fillet of solder. This is not mentioned in the instructions, so I am wondering if I did right? I always do this with MJT etc. compensation units.

Ian

David Thorpe

Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:19 am

I've done exactly the same with mine, Ian, without any apparent adverse effects. It makes sense as they are pretty flimsy otherwise.

DT

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby Guy Rixon » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:48 am

Strengthening the fold of the BB axleguards works because nothing in the spring carrier needs to fit exactly into the angle of that fold. However, I also find it useful to solder the lugs with the holes for the springs to the horizontal bit of the assembly, to protect against damage. Once this is done, the assembly is quite stiff and I don't need to solder the main fold.

dal-t
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby dal-t » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:16 pm

Isn't it standard practice to solder all folded joints? I'm sure I was told that when I first started building etched kits, but I so many years later (a) I haven't a clue where the instruction came from, and/or (b) maybe modern theory says otherwise?
David L-T

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Paul Willis
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby Paul Willis » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:44 pm

David B wrote:
Flymo748 wrote:
. . . the brakeshoes are nowhere near the wheels for instance . . .


Well within your capabilities to remedy this, surely?

challenge.jpg


<camp french accent> And your father smelt of elderberries! You call that a challenge? I speet on your rusty gauntlet!

Seriously, this is definitely one for the three-foot rule. Balancing up the time/outcome equation, it just isn't worth trying to make it perfect. The solebars are a bit naff, the wheelbase seems to be wrong for the brakegear, which is in the wrong spacing. I'd be throwing so much away that I'd be starting from just four etched sides. Which are good. I'll give them that.

Better to accept the compromises, and move on to the next project...

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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David B
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby David B » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:39 pm

Ian Everett wrote: . . . . so I strengthened the inside of the bend with a thin fillet of solder. This is not mentioned in the instructions, so I am wondering if I did right?
Ian

I have always done this with the BB units. I not only do the long folds but the corners as well. I chop small pieces of solder, pop one in a corner with a drop of flux and apply the RSU to the outside. The solder flashes in all 3 planes (except occasionally when the flux boils too quickly and flips the solder off!). On the long folds I do the same and move the probe along so that the solder follows the heat. Simples. :) :)

I make up a fret of units at a time then have them ready when I want them with the bearings already held in the carriers with a minute bit of solder applied with a conventional iron.

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Will L
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby Will L » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:10 pm

dal-t wrote:Isn't it standard practice to solder all folded joints? I'm sure I was told that when I first started building etched kits, but I so many years later (a) I haven't a clue where the instruction came from, and/or (b) maybe modern theory says otherwise?


No, there is no need to reinforce all folds. Where a piece is only attached by a single fold it will need reinforcement, but when it forms part of a structure, soldering up the edges is often enough without reinforcing the folds (unless you have over folded it and it is beginning to crack, that is). So for the BB spring unit, when the W iron is folded up and the little flaps at the end with the hole for the spring are turned in, a bit of solder applied to the corners so formed is all that is really necessary. You may need want to reinforce the long fold up strips with the spacing lungs that strengthen the cross members, but that will depend how you fit them to the wagon.

Will

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jim s-w
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby jim s-w » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:02 am

The only soldering I do on BB W irons is to solder the bearing into the carrier.

HTH

Jim
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

Brinkly
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby Brinkly » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:08 pm

My general rule of thumb is that if John Hayes does it, I copy! (He solders the Masokits w-irons as I do)

Regards,

Nick

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steve howe
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby steve howe » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:21 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
Paul Townsend wrote:
Flymo748 wrote: b****y Jidenco etched kit ;-)

Flymo

As ye sow so shall you reap :twisted:


I too have a Jidenco nightmare that has resurfaced out of the cripples box, its a GW 6 wheel brake van, constructed (more like beaten into submission) many years ago and now due an upgrade. My plan is to use BB sprung W irons in place of the cobbled together compensated units originally used. looking at the list on Eileens website I see a GWR 6 wheel unit is available, can anyone advise if this would suffice in this case (I'm not sure if it means its for 6 wheel coaches) or should I use individual wagon units? there does not seem to be a specific GW unit but they do list a 'heavy RCH' W iron which sounds a possibility?

Steve

billbedford

Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby billbedford » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:39 am

The BB GWR w-irons were intended for four and six wheeled coaches.

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steve howe
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby steve howe » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:49 pm

billbedford wrote:The BB GWR w-irons were intended for four and six wheeled coaches.


Sorry to be dense, but is that both the BBWF520-4 and BBWF020-4? If so what might the best solution be for the Toad?

Steve

billbedford

Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby billbedford » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:18 pm

The 5XX series are the same outline the 0XX ones but have additional pieces on the fret for the brake of six wheeled coaches.

The GWR wagon w-iron were very close in outline to the RCH standard. If the wheelbase of the toad is short, you may want to consider using BBWF001, or alternatively using BBW002, breaking off the spring supports on the middle axle and using a single continuous spring wire on each side.

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steve howe
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby steve howe » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:22 pm

That's great, thanks Bill :D

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steve howe
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby steve howe » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:30 pm

With plastic wagon kits, is there a recognised method of removing the plastic W iron to leave the spring/axlebox assembly clean and intact? I can't seem to find any recent references to this part of the process among the many BB sprung W iron postings.

Steve

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:28 pm

Steve
Don't know about a recognised method other than hack bits off with care, but I've attached a few photos showing which sequence I proceed in.
I'm doing a demo at the Chris Kedgely EMGS skills day in on 10 March at Kidderminster about the various methods of wagon compensation/springing and I've been prepping for some of that.
Generally it's cut away the base with edge cutters then use a no 10 blade in a scalpel to cut away from the front. Take small cuts rather that try to cut in one movement.
Turn over and remove the 'thickening' pieces with a scalpel then file away the rest with a flat needle file.
Tidy up any plastic swarf with a scalpel.
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Last edited by Andrew Ullyott on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jon price
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby jon price » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:44 pm

I do the same but use a chisel blade in the exacto handle and cut vertically round the axlebox
Connah's Quay Workshop threads: viewforum.php?f=125

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:03 pm

I've attached a few photos showing which sequence I proceed in.

The sequence does not look right to me, maybe starting from the bottom?
Unfortunately all the files have the same name so I can't sort them out for you.
Regards
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

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steve howe
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby steve howe » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:16 pm

That's great, thanks for that Andrew :thumb

I remember we chatted at Wells last year when you were demo-ing the BB system, but that bit of the process has disappeared from the memory bank!

Thanks

Steve

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: Ideal starter wagon chassis?

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:06 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:
I've attached a few photos showing which sequence I proceed in.

The sequence does not look right to me, maybe starting from the bottom?
Unfortunately all the files have the same name so I can't sort them out for you.
Regards

Oops
Now corrected
Thanks


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