50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

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Tor Giffard
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50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby Tor Giffard » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:03 pm

Evenin' all,

I received one of the new Hornby 50ft LMS brake coaches yesterday and a very nice model it is too. It will undergo the fitting of compensation, P4 wheelsets, removal of toy couplings/gangway connections, detailing of underframe, fitting of flush glazing, priming and painting in BR maroon. Its intended use is in a North Devon milk train of the late 1960s.

Is anyone aware of whether these brake coaches, with beading strips above and below the windows had any lining applied? The beading obviously making it a little tricky.

Dave

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grovenor-2685
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Re: 50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:03 pm

Can't answer you lining question except that my BR version came unlined from Hornby.
The Hornby bogies are quite flexible and run very well with a wheel swap, I think fitting any other form of compensation or springing would be a waste of time. The bogies just need the brake shoes moving, the link shows how I did mine.
http://www.norgrove.me.uk/lms-bogie.htm

Assuming, of course, that your new one is the same as mine, which I was surprised to see is now 8 years old, scary how time passes these days.
Regards
Keith

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Tor Giffard
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Re: 50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby Tor Giffard » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:50 am

Hi Keith,

I understand R4606 to be new tooling and only just released. It is a lovely model and I've consulted various books/sites for images of the type in BR crimson/maroon to make sure that the repaint does it justice. As yet though I haven't found one with beading/strapping that has been lined.

http://www.ehattons.com/69400/Hornby_R4 ... etail.aspx

Cheers

Dave

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Simon Glidewell
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Re: 50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby Simon Glidewell » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:Can't answer you lining question except that my BR version came unlined from Hornby.
The Hornby bogies are quite flexible and run very well with a wheel swap, I think fitting any other form of compensation or springing would be a waste of time. The bogies just need the brake shoes moving, the link shows how I did mine.
http://www.norgrove.me.uk/lms-bogie.htm

Assuming, of course, that your new one is the same as mine, which I was surprised to see is now 8 years old, scary how time passes these days.
Regards
Keith


I agree with Keith about the bogies; adding any additional form of compensation would be overkill. All you need to do is make sure the bogie fixing screw isn't too tight; experimentation on a piece of curved test track will indicate how much play (sideways and lateral movement) you need to give the bogies, controlled by the screw position. It almost sounds as if you intend rebuilding an already very good model Dave! My advice would be to keep things as simple as possible rather than over complicating it all.

All the best
Simon

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Tor Giffard
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Re: 50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby Tor Giffard » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:04 am

Mornin' Simon,

I'd like to model the coach with a couple of droplights open and populate it with a guard figure but am trying to avoid dismantling the body. I'll investigate what can be done from the exterior and leave the compensation for now, on yours & Keith's recommendation. The livery was only ever going to be weathered crimson/maroon.

Robert Carroll kindly supplied this image a few moments ago

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... 0ft-brake/

An ideal angle/light for seeing the prototypical glazing and consequent shortfall of the model.

Dave

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Simon Glidewell
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Re: 50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby Simon Glidewell » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:49 pm

Tor Giffard wrote:Mornin' Simon,

I'd like to model the coach with a couple of droplights open and populate it with a guard figure but am trying to avoid dismantling the body. I'll investigate what can be done from the exterior and leave the compensation for now, on yours & Keith's recommendation. The livery was only ever going to be weathered crimson/maroon.

Robert Carroll kindly supplied this image a few moments ago

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... 0ft-brake/

An ideal angle/light for seeing the prototypical glazing and consequent shortfall of the model.

Dave


Hello Dave, apologies if the Hornby coach is not one with bogie screws! I suddenly thought about this after my last post. I know that a lot of older Hornby coaches had a type of tubular rivet to hold them to the under frame which was almost impossible to modify without damage.

All the best
Simon

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grovenor-2685
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Re: 50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:39 pm

Simon Glidewell wrote:Hello Dave, apologies if the Hornby coach is not one with bogie screws! I suddenly thought about this after my last post. I know that a lot of older Hornby coaches had a type of tubular rivet to hold them to the under frame which was almost impossible to modify without damage.
All the best
Simon

The tubular rivets are only for really old models, eg the original Mk 1s. And screws are more of a Bachmann thing, these Hornby Staniers have Hornby's usual clip in fitting which can just be levered out with a screwdriver and simply pushed back in when the mods are done. Or if you want to be kinder to the plug in clip you need to get inside the coach and pinch the two halves of the clip together on the inside to help it out.
Keith

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Tor Giffard
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Re: 50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby Tor Giffard » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:44 pm

Evenin' all,

I took the new 50ft brake along to the CAG meeting this afternoon and handed it to the dozen or so others gathered there for inspection/comment. A valid observation being the hinge on the outside of the guards door/unbroken solebar level line to the body and door, suggesting that the model door could only open outwards (if it did move). I'll look at a few period images but would be very surprised if this was the case with the prototype.

Inspection of several prototype images would indeed suggest that the guards door opens outwards....can anyone confirm that this is actually the case?

Dave
Last edited by Tor Giffard on Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Noel
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Re: 50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby Noel » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:29 am

The illustrations and drawings in Jenkinson and Essery's "LMS Coaches - An Illustrated History" show Period I steel brakes with inward opening doors, and Period III ones with outward opening doors. Later LMS passenger coaches with guard's vans mostly had no separate guard's door; he used one half of the van double doors, which were outward opening. The change to outward opening doors seems to have occurred circa 1930-1. The LMS was not alone in this; C20th GWR coaches generally had outward opening guard's doors.

Noel
Noel

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Tor Giffard
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Re: 50ft LMS brake in BR crimson/maroon

Postby Tor Giffard » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:44 am

Thank you Noel,

A useful piece of information duly noted.

Dave


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