Problems with transfers and glazing

John Palmer
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Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby John Palmer » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:39 pm

I've had a couple of finishing problems as illustrated on the image below, and should be glad to have suggestions about how I might avoid these in the future.
Finishing problems.jpg
Finishing problems.jpg (174.78 KiB) Viewed 4766 times
The captions should speak for themselves. The transfers are very elderly Methfix, dating from when PC Models was still Peter Chatham's company. The glazing material is probably Plastiglaze, cut to rest against the draft in the window cut-outs and secured in placed with Klear.

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John Donnelly
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby John Donnelly » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:31 pm

One way to conceal the edges of the glazing is run a black permanent marker round the edges.

John

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Simon Glidewell
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby Simon Glidewell » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:59 pm

John Palmer wrote:I've had a couple of finishing problems as illustrated on the image below, and should be glad to have suggestions about how I might avoid these in the future.
Finishing problems.jpg
The captions should speak for themselves. The transfers are very elderly Methfix, dating from when PC Models was still Peter Chatham's company. The glazing material is probably Plastiglaze, cut to rest against the draft in the window cut-outs and secured in placed with Klear.


John, have a word with Colin Parks; he did some great work on his EMUs with transfers. I believe he developed a very good technique.

beachboy
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby beachboy » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:05 pm

John,

With the nos., I would continue down the ( Number ) 1 with a fine 000 brush till in line with the 3. Then square off with a thin stroke of Body colour top & bottom if nec' y.
The 6 needs removing.
I apply these hanging on the edge of a Swan Morton blade over its intended position, and fix the placing with a smoothed edge cocktail stick. Thence holding in place with c'stick, apply cotton bud of Meth's mix. And allow to dry / varnish, or re-attempt - by soaking etc. Always let each No. dry out in turn before the next.

Plastiglaze stress's when aged or cut with a blade that's not in prime form, or scissors that can twist the material.
I would either pop it out & use as a template for a replacement material. Try the clear packaging material - I use for thin glazing the clear sheet as part of the Tesco Best Wood Fired Pizza's box. No stress or fracturing of the edges, and can be fine trimmed for a tight fit. Klear covering no problem.
Or,
Seal the existing edges of the Plastiglaze with an oil, or waterproof varnish. So a wash can be made up of body colour, or grey / raw sienna dust, &/or grey black dirt, and progressively brushed into the crevice of the glazing to body - but is unable to creep inside. You could clear away only part of the wash so that it looks as if someone has cleaned p/o the window - cotton bud. If you use Acrylic's add some Flow Improver to the mix.
If there was a rubber seal, then you could over line the edge with a Lining Pen or Bob Moore similar with some black grey paint.

When the Nos. have dried. Over paint the carrier film with fine brush / body colour, & later seal.

Steve.

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Will L
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby Will L » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:19 pm

beachboy wrote:...When the Nos. have dried. Over paint the carrier film with fine brush / body colour, & later seal.


Carrier film? I thought the only carrier film on methfix transfers is the one you wash off with plain water once the transfer is well stuck down.

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David B
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby David B » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:41 pm

Try softening the '6' with Microsol. You might then be able to move it.

John Palmer
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby John Palmer » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:47 pm

Thank you for very much for all your suggestions.

For the future I shall be on the lookout for alternative sources of glazing material such as that on the Tesco pizza boxes, and will think in terms of treating the edges of the glazing before insertion as per John Donelly's suggestion. I cut the Plastiglaze for this model with a single edged razor blade that I've rehoned many a time, and had not been aware of any stressing problems arising from doing so - perhaps the edge was keen enough for me to have dodged this bullet.

I did think the Methfix transfers came without carrier film, which is part of the reason I greatly prefer them to the Pressfix alternative. Not having any Microsol I attempted to soften and move the '1' and the '6' using Carr's Transfix (also a transfer softening agent) but no dice. Nothing for it but a new '6', and this time, using sharpened and dressed cook's matchsticks (this household doesn't seem to run to cocktail sticks) I was able to persuade the numeral to take up a better position.

The Methfix instructions tell you to position the transfer then 'press down firmly with the fingers', but in my experience this leads to downfall as the transfers move position under the finger's pressure, no matter how much you try to avoid this by using a rolling action of the finger concerned. In this case I pressed the '6' down with the blunt end of the match stick, and this seemed to give better control of the pressing operation.

For the glazing, I've run some diluted bodyside colour into the seam with a fine brush, and although the result still isn't perfect, some of the shine on the glazing edges has been eliminated.

Anyhow: the result of these labours now looks like this - better than it was, at any rate so far as the '6' is concerned:
Finishing problems updated-2.jpg
Finishing problems updated-2.jpg (116.59 KiB) Viewed 4534 times

beachboy
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby beachboy » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:01 am

Well done John, the number looks much better.

It's a pity about the mid grey colour of the stress mark.
You could disguise it by knocking it back with a thinned black green. Mix a little black into the body colour perhaps.
The fall of light will make it far less noticeable to the existing. If it does not look right - wipe it off.

As for the pedantic. A carrier is something that carries, or holds something. In this case the gum. O K ?

Steve.

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David B
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby David B » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:19 am

John Palmer wrote:For the future I shall be on the lookout for alternative sources of glazing material . . .


Have you considered glass, John? I have used microscope coverslips (cheap on eBay) which I cut with a diamond scribe (various prices but can be found for under a tenner). To fix the glass, I place it in position and put small dabs of No More Nails (tube from Staples) on with a cocktail stick (or sharpened matchstick), not under the glass but on the edge near the corners.

Cutting the glass needs a little practise but do so on a firm surface and use little more pressure than the weight of the scribe.

David

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Re6/6
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby Re6/6 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:45 pm

There's nothing quite like glass for representing glass.

In MRJ 180 & 227 there are articles on the use of cover slips.

Some useful information here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... h-glazing/
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... pe-slides/

A large number of suppliers of cheap scribers and cover slips can be found on eBay.
John

DougN
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby DougN » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:15 pm

John, that is strange as I was just reading 227 this morning. :shock:
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

billbedford
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby billbedford » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:51 am

Is this the Hornby SR CCT? id which case Shawplan do laser cut acrylic windows for it. These don't have problems with stress mark on the edges.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

John Palmer
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby John Palmer » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:49 am

I had not considered the possibility of using microscope cover slips, but they might work well on this vehicle, in which the window apertures have right-angled corners throughout. Looking at the laminated glass in MRJ 227 I note that the edges are quite rough, and achieving an adequately smooth edge to fit individual panes to apertures might be a problem, I suspect.

Bill, this isn't a Hornby SR CCT, and I think the Shawplan windows are unlikely to be the right size or shape. It is, in fact, a Tri-ang R.227 utility van dating from 1958 so it's probably amongst the most elderly models converted to P4. Those who can remember this particular model will recall that it dates from the days of engraving plank lines into the mould, with the result that these appeared in relief rather than being inset. Paring away the plank divisions and scoring replacement lines was one of the fun parts of the refurbishment.

Here's a picture of the nearly finished article, which in close up is horribly good at revealing the shortcomings in my work. But then, this was precisely the reason for my getting a camera witth reasonable macro capabilities - it shows me where improvement is needed.
GBL.jpg

Terry Bendall
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Re: Problems with transfers and glazing

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:46 am

John Palmer wrote:It is, in fact, a Tri-ang R.227 utility van dating from 1958


I can remember those, I had one at the time, complete with opening doors. Looks like you have done a very good job on it John

John Palmer wrote:But then, this was precisely the reason for my getting a camera witth reasonable macro capabilities - it shows me where improvement is needed.


We have found this when taking picture that are due to appear in Rail Express magazine. Load the image the appropriate editing softeware and enlarge it and all the tiny imperfactions can be seen - many of which are too small to be seen by eye, even with a magnifier. Missed pain, paint in the wrong place, specks of duest, and more can all be seen and corrected - if you can see them of course.

Terry Bendall


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