Onward from Ambergate

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
Terry Bendall
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:20 am

The finished room looks very nice Tony. I am very jealous. :(

I would have thought that a height of 48 inches or so would work, and when sitting down the track would be close to eye level which would make for interesting view points. It would also mean that working under the layout would be easier - perhaps a stool on castors would be useful to save crawling around which as we get older is increasingly tiring.

Terry Bendall

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TonyMont
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby TonyMont » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:17 am

Hi Terry,
There is no need for jealousy, it was a lifestyle choice, I will have to work longer and harder to pay for it.
The group of friends that helped erect the layout will meet again on the 11th, when further discussions about the height will be had. The baseboard that was capable of shortenening has been chopped and so we may also get the chance to move the whole thing forward. This will hopefully open up the back of the room, so that Buxton will not be too cramped. I will let you all know.

Best regards,
Tony.

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:35 pm

Tony,

well, if not jealousy, envy perhaps. I'd love to have that space. Only having enough room to work on one baseboard at a time is rather restricting and makes progress much slower.

It's good to see your progress with Ambergate.

Regards,

Jol

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TonyMont
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby TonyMont » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:10 pm

Hi All,
Things have been moving on at Ambergate, first of all the new support structure was built and the north end baseboard has been trimmed so that the layout could be moved forward by 4 feet, the layout is now about a foot higher than it was and also slopes from one end to the other. The north end is now 3 inches higher than the south, this is to give clearance for the new loops and tunnels. The incline is not obvious and verticals still look vertical.

There is now plenty of room at the north end for the extensions, however the south end is tighter in several aspects than was envisaged. The templot plans were laid out on the floor and moved around a little, but it proved necessary to remove a crossover from the Ashbourne line, this can be substituted for a slip at the junction, so there will be no change in operation.

Once the track layout was confirmed, the next development will be the re-building of the south junction to include the second bridge which was built across the river Derwent in 1932. On the prototype this also involved the openning out of Longlands tunnel to allow quadrupling of the track. So on the model the tunnel was openned out last week, the pictures show Rex Davidson and Phil Ryder removing the fibreglass hillside and tunnel mouth.
Hill hinge2.jpg
All clear.jpg


Thanks
Tony.

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Horsetan
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Horsetan » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:49 pm

You'll have people asking you whether they can bring their own stock for "track days" :!: :mrgreen:
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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TonyMont
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby TonyMont » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:52 pm

Hi All,

It has been a while. Back in January I made myself a promise that I would get on with building the layout and so I set a target to get at least one track right round the room, by the 15th of October, a significant birthday of mine.
All the track on the outer circuit will be non scenic apart from the Ambergate section, so that would help, but the gradients would all be critical in order to make the Buxton section work.
I am pleased to report that the target was achieved with four days to spare, thanks to help by a number of S4 members and several others of various 4mm disciplines.
Please see the following Youtube clips.


My thanks to John Sherratt for the clips, taken on his Iphone.
Best regards,
Tony.

DougN
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby DougN » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:45 pm

Congrates Tony... The running looks great. there is something of an achievement in having a train running on such a big circuit! We have one here in Melbourne that is of great size though yet to get all the way round the room. I love going over there with my locos to see how long it takes to do half the circuit.. which for the Black hawthorn is quite a long time!... Yet to get back over there... but I hope to make a special trip in the next month or so!.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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TonyMont
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby TonyMont » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:47 pm

Hi Doug,
Thanks, a full circuit for the 3f and a train takes about 3 minutes.

Tony.

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Jim Summers
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Jim Summers » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:18 pm

Inspirational, Tony. Congratulations.

Must try this business of setting targets . . . .

Jim

Terry Bendall
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Terry Bendall » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:10 am

Caleyman wrote:Inspirational,


Indeed it is Tony and by the looks of things, a lot of new woodwork to form the base of the continuous run.

With Ambergate, and other large layouts, some of which go to exhibitions, the practicality of using P4 standards for large layouts is surely proved once and for all - that is assuming that it needed to be proved. :)

Terry Bendall

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Martin Wynne » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:51 am

Terry Bendall wrote:assuming that it needed to be proved. :)

It didn't -- on the exhibition circuit for 20 years: http://www.templot.com/GNRI/adavoyle.htm

Martin.
40 years developing Templot. And counting ...

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Will L
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Onward from Ambergate - a Birthday Bash

Postby Will L » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:09 am

To honour a round numbered birthday celebration of his, a few days ago we got together to have a play with Tony's new, saw toothed profiled, continuous run. I was particularly interested in doing further trials of my CSB fitted loco’s on duties more challenging than those available on Knutsford. Both the C12 (a 4-4-2 tank) and the O4 (a 2-8-0 tender loco) were given a go with a test train made up of approaching 40 4 wheeled wagons. Most of these were courtesy of John Sharrat, who is a 2 ounces per wagon man, and the train proved to be remarkably heavy. None the less both loco’s had no difficulty handling it on the flat. Trouble is Tony’s layout isn’t flat, and the big challenge was in the far corner where a right angle curve, approached from both directions by gradients of about 1 in 50, marks the layouts current high point and a significant loco haulage challenge. It has to be said that this will, in time, form part of the Buxton end of Tony’s layout, where such gradients are prototypical, and where the need for banking engines was an operational feature Tony plans to include in his model

A couple of interesting learning points.

The first was that perhaps surprisingly the O4 and the C12 proved to be about equally capable when it came to heavy lifting, proving 4 driving wheels will do as well as 8 assuming you can get enough adhesive weight over them. So tank engines have a significant advantage.

The second was that the 4 AJ coupling fitted wagons, that we had to take out of the train as the couplings became unreliable, shouldn’t have been marshalled at the loco end of the train. They had stretched under the weight going uphill.

I also learned something interesting about CSB’s on a chassis with a weigh carrying bogie, but that I’m going to document elsewhere.

Finally a couple of pictures.
2013 October 4.jpg
2013 October 4.jpg (192.81 KiB) Viewed 6013 times

These show the C12 and train happily tackling the long steady gradient up through Ambergate with the AJ coupling less remnant of the train, which, if John did achieve 2 ounces per wagon, weighs in at just a smidgen under 2 Kilos. While originally built flat, to get the gradient profiles Tony requires, Ambergate has been mounted so it is 3 inches higher at one end than the other.
2013 October 3.jpg
2013 October 3.jpg (215.26 KiB) Viewed 6013 times

To give you some idea as to the size of the thing, we timed the C12 round the circuit at the lowest controller setting that would get it up the big hill at the back. It took 4 minutes 55 seconds.

Will

Edited so the train isn't apparently progressing backwards
Last edited by Will L on Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Andy W
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Andy W » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:18 am

Lovely!
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

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TonyMont
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Re: Moving on to Buxton

Postby TonyMont » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:32 pm

Hi All,
Work continues and I am now working on the first of the Buxton baseboards.

To make some sense of the plan shown earlier Buxton is very unusual, there are two terminal stations next to each other the lower one on the left of the plan was built by the Midland and the other one slightly higher up the plan by the London and North Western, this was all at the height of their wrangling.

The Midland lines exits under the LNWR branch to Ashbourne which leaves Buxton on a viaduct (inner loop, bottom left). Slightly to the right you will notice that the two lines are joined by a goods only double track with carriage sidings off, which allowed interchanges and was later used for diversions and excursions. These baseboards are the critical phase in making sure that all the gradients work as they should, in a space which is considerably smaller that scale.

I will post again when I have the track beds in place.

Regards,
Tony.
Attachments
P1060578.JPG
Two Buxton baseboards.

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TonyMont
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby TonyMont » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:05 pm

Hi All,
Well it has taken longer than expected, but unfortunately I have work and other things to do. Anyway here are a few photos I hope they will upload ok. The layout is rather complicated and it may not be too clear as to what goes where. If anyone is interested I will try to explain. :D
Attachments
P1060586.JPG
Looking across the North Western station throat.
P1060585.JPG
Looking towards North Western station.
P1060584.JPG
Looking towards the viaduct and Midland station.

beachboy
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby beachboy » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:28 pm

I appreciate the muddle of all those baseboards is ongoing.
But to go back to Will's last pic of the goods train ascending the hill. I keep being drawn to the bottom left of the pic to that amazing three story stone building. The architecture, colour, modelling, and the roof size must derive some weight on a real thing.
Who lives there I wonder. The sign suggests a pub ?
Really good.

Steve.

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martinm
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby martinm » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:24 pm

Got it in one!
Go to http://www.thehurtarms.info/ which even has the google view.
martin

Terry Bendall
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Terry Bendall » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:05 am

It looks like a large layout is now getting even larger. I shall look forward to seeing things as they progress.

Terry Bendall

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TonyMont
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby TonyMont » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:37 am

Hi Terry, Beachboy, MartinM.

In deed it is the Hurt Arms, an establishment that is very much still with us, unlike the station, which is open but a shadow of its former self. The layout has a long way to go yet, the next operation is to lay the storage sidings, an operation which was put off until I could make sure that all the gradients worked out, then it will be making the track for the junctions on these new baseboards and building the boards for the stations and yards.

Regards,
Tony.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:55 am

Ambergate has been mounted so it is 3 inches higher at one end than the other.
Must be tricky keeping the water in the canal! But its all coming along well.
Keith

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TonyMont
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby TonyMont » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:51 am

Hi Keith,
Its only three inches over 30feet so you can't really see any difference, I haven't put a level on the canal, but it seems to be watertight.

Regards,
Tony.

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:31 pm

That is a monster layout you are creating there!

It will be fabulous to see full length trains legitimately going in multiple directions simultaneously.

I guess you have a monstor stock building programme in mind too!
Mark Tatlow

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Tim V
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby Tim V » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:34 pm

TonyMont wrote:Hi Keith,
Its only three inches over 30feet so you can't really see any difference, I haven't put a level on the canal, but it seems to be watertight.

Regards,
Tony.

Still a gradient of 1:120, wasn't that the ruling gradient on another railway in the South of England?
Tim V

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TonyMont
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby TonyMont » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:24 pm

Hi Mark,
Yes in mind, I have always been more of a layout builder than stock. There are plenty of kits in the maturing drawers though. Plenty waiting to be finished too..
Hi Tim,
I don't know about other companies I am afraid, but the prototype gradient over the flying junction (centre of station throat photo) was 1 in 34.

Regards,
Tony.

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TonyMont
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Re: Onward from Ambergate

Postby TonyMont » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:59 pm

Hi All,

Its been a while, I have had all sorts of domestic tasks to work on over the summer and autumn, so i had big plans for the Christmas break, unfortunately as often happens I stopped work and came down with a bad cold. :twisted:

The cold is subsiding now, and so I am building more baseboards,
Up yard 2.jpg
View of up sidings from station end.


Using a full size Templot printout and bearing in mind any gradients, I make the baseboard frames to fit the layout.
Up yard.jpg
Up yards


Once these are finished I only have the station boards to do, then some very serious track building will commence.

Thanks,
Tony.


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