Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

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Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:08 pm

The first loco I have decided to complete in P4 is the Judith Edge Ruston 48DS. After spending just over a year starting the layout and doing little else, it was almost a relief to put the baseboards away and try something a little different. This kit was carefully chosen to get me into loco-building mode before attempting to finish any of the other, far more ambitious projects I had started, or had in mind.

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The prototype was built from the late 1940s onwards. Several variations are catered for. Here are the etched components for what is near enough a complete, all-inclusive kit…..

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The most interesting items from my point of view are the High Level 97:1 Rustler gearbox and the Alan Gibson wheels. The gearbox is custom-designed for this kit and drives both axles. The tiny 2ft 3in diameter wheels are smaller than anything shown on the 4mm Gibson price list. I may be after more, as they are potentially very useful for future locos and rolling stock.

I started around 6:30pm this evening, working until about 10:30pm. So far, the basic inside frame and the outside chassis have been more or less completed. The gearbox has been started. The kit has the option of rigid or compensated suspension. I chose compensation, to improve pickup. I suspect it would be difficult to install CSBs, though I am sure those more expert than I might give it a try.

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I probably rushed things a little bit, as I was so full of enthusiasm. There is no point in telling you how I did it. I simply followed the instructions, as far as I could. Assembly has not been too bad - though there were times when I wished I had at least 6 hands. Also, a bit of guesswork and intuition was required, as the instructions are a little on the brief side. For example, there are half etches on the back of the etchings for the representation of rivets, but I could find no mention of these, or what to do with them. Better to have a kit with brief instructions, than no kit at all though!

Let's see how far I can get tomorrow night :?

DougN
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby DougN » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:07 am

Armchair... you are running the risk of not sitting in your armchair at this pace!... maybe a name change is due :thumb

Your progression from starting 12 months ago to now is quite astonishing! to have a layout that is accelerating along and starting a little interesting beasty of the Ruston... you'll be exhibiting in no time!
Doug
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RobM
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby RobM » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:09 am

Richard, a change is as good as a rest.......looking good....... :thumb
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nigelcliffe
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby nigelcliffe » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:11 am

A partial solution to needing 6 hands is found here

http://www.2mm.org.uk/mag0897/clamps.htm

Make the base a lot bigger than the photograph. Put several holes in the base. Use other bits of scrap as packers if the object can't sit flat on the base (coffee stirrer's and pegs are good!). There are loads of variations you can add to the basic idea.


- Nigel

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:03 am

Many thanks gentlemen :thumb

Nigel - Washing lines and kebabs are things I try hard to avoid, but it is a clever idea - thanks!

Doug - I kind of like the name "Armchair Modeller". I have used it in various places for a long, long time. It would be a shame to change it now. Just imagine if we all had to use accurate pseudonyms. I could think of a few for others on here! :D

As for exhibiting, I really think that is a while off yet. Having to scratchbuild much of my stock will take forever, just for starters. I would also have to work out how to fit everything in my Toyota Aygo. :shock:

Rob - Early days yet - let's see how long the enthusiasm lasts :?

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby DougN » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:47 am

Well OK "Armchair" needs to remain... I had a giggle at the comment about fitting it in a Toyota Argo.... I have no idea what it looks like... Australia we get different names for the same cars.... I have a Holden Calais.... which no doubt the UK would have a giggle at.... I think of when Horsetan came out and stayed for a while and he really liked the Holden Commodore (which is a down spec'ed Calais) He loved the sheer pleasure of the Power and effortless shove in the back that the V6 gave.... I did at one stage have a Holden Monaro (V8 300Kw) which drove like the proverbial off a shovel.... You could get 4 adults in that but nothing in the boot... and you had to fold yourself triple to get into the back seat! Crazy but fun!
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:48 pm

Sounds like two nations divided by a common means of transport (as opposed to a common language) ;)

For the Aygo, just imagine a child's pedal car fitted with 4 seats, an egg shell for a body and possibly an engine somewhere up front (though where it is hidden no one knows) :D

It is smaller than the Yaris - though quite possibly not sold in Australia.

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby DougN » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:27 pm

Well I guess you are right. It isn't sold here. We do get the smart car's though they are not very popular. It is funny thing about cars in that people seem to want bigger than they need. The sheer number of big 4wd's BMW X5, Volvo XC90's Landcruisers that have only 1 person is amazing. I keep thinking my car is too big... but with the family on board it is the right size!

The next odd thing I see is how big the boots are vs the size of the boot opening! but this is getting off track... back to the Ruston. :D
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:05 pm

Just in case Toyota's lawyers are reading this topic, I do like the Aygo. It is fun to drive, economical - and if it breaks down, you just strap it to your back and walk home ;)

Returning to the 48DS kit, I only managed about an hour and a half this evening. The main task was to finish assembling the gearbox. This has to be done very carefully, checking each stage as the assembly progressed. More than anything else, this filled me with terror - not least because it involved the dangerous combination of plastic gears, metal shafts, cyano adhesive, a soldering iron and of course, myself. It turned out to be not so bad after all. I did manage to accidentally stick one of the layshafts to an idler gear with cyano. I quickly managed to punch the shaft out without further damage and fully recover the situation. Otherwise, everything went well.

I cut the shafts using a piercing saw, rather than the carborundum disc recommended in the instructions. Otherwise, I followed the "High Level" gearbox instructions, included with the kit, to the letter. I have not yet run the completed gearbox with the motor attached, but everything does feel smooth and easy to revolve with my fingers.

In the remaining time, I finished the assembly of the main (outside) frames. This involved soldering on the side frame overlays, axlebox covers and axlebox overlays.

Here is the obligatory photo

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Tomorrow, I hope to assemble the cab and the engine casing.

I managed to get hold of a copy of "The Ruston Class 48DS & 88DS Locomotives" by David R Hall. This has a few drawings and photos, as well as the history of the development of these locomotives. This book is pretty essential when adding the details.

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Andy W
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Andy W » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:40 pm

Looking good A.M. I'm curious about the wheels. You said "The tiny 2ft 3in diameter wheels are smaller than anything shown on the 4mm Gibson price list." I presume these came with the kit? I was after something similar but assumed AG only went as small as 2'9". I don't suppose you obtained these separately?
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:59 pm

Progress continued this evening, with a 2 hour spell, before I dutifully went and sat on the naughty step for a while for not following the instructions...... :?

Firstly, I tried a smaller motor than the one supplied in the kit - an old Tenshodo from my scrap box. The regular motor fills most of the cab - something I wanted to reduce if I could. This ran very well, so I left it running the gearbox in for a while. Only then did I notice that yesterday's problem spur gear was again stuck to its shaft :shock: I will try and sort that out tomorrow.

I may try an even smaller motor, as the loco is intended to pull little more than itself and a couple of wagons. With luck, the cab may be almost totally free of things that shouldn't be there - but even a little is better than a lot. The gearing is 97:1, so even a very small motor ought to move the loco, with a bit of luck.

I finally got round to putting the cab together. The open cab only came with very early locos, so I went for the enclosed cab.

After a lot of thought, I felt uncomfortable about going along with the order of assembly given in the instructions. Firstly, I decided it would be easier for me if I soldered the doors onto the cab sides, rather than adding them after the cab had been soldered together. Then, following photographs, I decided to solder the frame for the side windows on the inside of the cab. This seems to have been a feature of the early enclosed cabs. With both the doors and window frames, I tinned everything first and used copious amounts of Carr's Green flux. Finally, I soldered the cab sides and ends together. Again I did not follow advice and did not solder the cab parts to the underlying frame etch. It seemed much easier to me to do it my way.

Cab completed, I turned to the bonnet. This was bent up to shape. The front was then soldered in place. I had to leave it there, as I ran out of time. Here is the evidence of progress...

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I feel very pleased with my efforts. My soldering is not too bad at all and will require very little cleaning up.

I was worried that the motor I fitted would be too wide, as it is wider than the one supplied with the kit. In fact, it just fits inside the bonnet. The smaller one I have in mind to try is slimmer, so would not be a problem at all.

Next, I need to finish the bonnet. I will then study the photos a little more and decide what other details I need to add. Some may be different or additional to those supplied in the kit. Whichever motor I decide to use, I think the chassis and other sub-assemblies will need a little bit of fettling to ensure that everything goes together well.

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:54 pm

Ealing wrote:Looking good A.M. I'm curious about the wheels. You said "The tiny 2ft 3in diameter wheels are smaller than anything shown on the 4mm Gibson price list." I presume these came with the kit? I was after something similar but assumed AG only went as small as 2'9". I don't suppose you obtained these separately?


Not sure how, but I did not see your post until today, Ealing - sorry! :(

The wheels are included in the kit. I wonder if they are derived from his 3mm range? They are 3" too small for the prototype, so clearly not made from scratch specifically for this kit.

TBH I am surprised that no one does 2ft 6in wheels in several varieties. A number of locos seem to have used them as pony wheels or drivers. They seem to have existed in the Sharman portfolio. The only option I am currently aware of is the Ultrascale Sentinel replacement wheelset, where the solid disc wheels are on stub axles.

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:57 pm

Beginner's luck almost ran out tonight! :shock:

I soldered the bonnet side panels and radiator grille on without too much trouble. I tinned the surfaces to be joined and used lots of Carr's Green flux as before, which worked very well. I then had a go at the cab steps. I had to use photos to work out how the etches should be folded. Then, I soldered the first step etch to the outside frame of the chassis. I felt really pleased with the "skilful" way I had soldered it on - then it slowly dawned on me that I had soldered it to the wrong end of the chassis :shock:

I unsoldered the steps without too much trouble, but somehow lost an axlebox cover in the process (easily replaced). I spent an age carefully trying to remove the solder from the side of the frame. I just about succeeded - I think a final polish with very fine sandpaper should do the job. The steps were then soldered in the correct place, as were the steps on the other side of the chassis. I soldered a spacer made from scrap etch between the steps and the frame, as otherwise there is a gap.

Here is a photo. The cab and bonnet are just sitting loose on top of the frame to give a rough idea of what the finished model will be like. I am deliberately keeping the cab, bonnet etc. separate for as long as possible, to see how small a motor I can get away with - and therefore how much cab detail I can squeeze in.

48DSd.jpg
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Now, I just have the cab roof, exhaust pipe, handrails, door handles and derail beams to solder on. There are also a few resin details in the kit. Looking at photos, I will need to add a few home-made extras, like sandpipes. "Ruston" name badges will only be fixed after painting. I may try to make the cab roof detachable.

For the inner chassis, I still have to add the brakes and sort out the shaft that insists on rotating with a spur gear. I would like to run the gearbox in a little more before I experiment with a smaller motor. I can then assemble the inner chassis, wheels and gearbox to make a running chassis.

It may be Saturday before I can do much more, as tomorrow (Friday) will be a busy day.

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Tim V
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Tim V » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:04 pm

To remove solder, have you tried "solder wick", a copper braid (other things are available)? Put some of your favourite flux on the braid, quick pass with the iron, whoosh, solder gone!
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:39 pm

Tim V wrote:To remove solder, have you tried "solder wick", a copper braid (other things are available)? Put some of your favourite flux on the braid, quick pass with the iron, whoosh, solder gone!


That sounds great fun, Tim - as well as being very useful to know about. Too late for my little faux pas though, as there is now very little solder left to eradicate. This is very much a learning exercise for me, so any tips like this are very helpful for the future. Thanks for the suggestion. :thumb

Whilst I am here, I omitted previously to mention a few references worth looking up if anyone else is making one of these kits...............

Highly recommended is Halfwit's Blog on RMweb - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... t=19&st=20

This covers the A1 Models kit with various chassis options and also the Judith Edge kit – also his photo gallery http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ston-48ds/

There is also a brief article called “Creating ‘Havoc’” in MRJ Compendium No1 covering the old Impetus kit. It probably has little relevance to the Judith Edge kit.

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby DougN » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:53 am

TimV and armchair. A local O gauge member to me passed on a tip to use steel wire disc's in a dremel. the steel wire comes from a jewellery supplier... only a gentle touch and the solder is gone! It can get rid of a large amount of solder quickly... though eye protection is required. The one down side is the "wire" does wear and break over time and is annoying when embeded in the skin... though you can see and remove it more easily than glass fibre! :o
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:46 am

That too sounds like great fun, Doug - just a shame I don't have any large lumps of solder to remove any more ;)

The photos probably look a lot worse than reality. The solder remaining is very thin and superficial - apart from fillets inside the cab where some real strength is required to hold together the butt joints. The darker marks are where the wood singed and marked the brass when I was soldering. Again. this is very superficial and easily dealt with.

I did no modelling yesterday, as time was short. I did find time to briefly look at what detail I will need to add though, by looking at photos of the prototype. The list so far includes...

Brake system - needs a lot more detail than provided by the kit. The brake pull rods, for example, should be quite prominent below the chassis.
Brackets for lights
Adjuster rods on axleboxes should be tubular - just a flat etch on the kit
Exhaust has wire supports on cab front
Radiator grille should really be much finer mesh - but what to use?
Sand pipes
Cab interior (as much as possible)
D slot in bonnet top for exhaust - not a circular hole
Horn(s)
4 holes in each wheel
Channel along centre of bonnet top - thinking about using 2mm scale bullhead rail for this.

Also, there are a few more body parts in the kit still to add, like derail beams, handrails and door handles, lights, sandboxes, radiator and fuel filler caps, exhaust pipe, cab roof, buffer heads. I also need to think about couplings. Nameplates and badges may well be best fitted after painting.

Moving to the abstract world of my little tramway, I also wonder about fitting air brakes for train use. I am only guessing, but assume I would need a large air reservoir somewhere, as well as air pipes on the buffer beams. The loco would be too slow for normal service trains, with a maximum speed of 9mph. It would be required to move stock during shunting though, as well as operating permanent way trains.

Today, I plan to spend my modelling time on the chassis. Hopefully, there will be an update this evening.

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:50 pm

This evening, I finally sorted out the errant spur gear. I made a new shaft and soldered a washer on one end. Having punched out the old shaft, I put he new shaft in place and just tacked it to the gearbox frame with a spot of solder. I think the Cyano adhesive I was using previously was simply too viscous for the task.

I ran the gearbox in for a further 10 minutes each way before trying to fit it to the inner mainframes. Unfortunately, the motor decided to fail - one of the coils developed a loose wire. I could still get it revolving if I gave the rotating bits a poke, but it refused to start any more without assistance. I doubt this had anything to do with connecting it to the gearbox, as it was happily turning that on minimal volts.

Here is a photo of my "test rig", with the motor and gearbox happily revolving.

48DSe1.jpg
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The failed motor gave me the excuse to try the smaller motor I mentioned previously. This is perhaps a very silly idea - especially as we are generally encouraged to fit as large a motor as we can. The Sagami is also a fairly high revving motor, if my memory serves me correctly. I have not stuck the worm to the shaft though - it is happily gripping the shaft at the moment without any help. That means I can easily replace the motor with something larger again, if it is not up to the task.

Here is a comparison of the three motors - the Sagami on the left, the small Tenshodo in the middle and the Mashima 1020 supplied with the gearbox on the right.

48DSe2.jpg
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I then fettled the frames to fit the gearbox and motor in. I had to get rid of some of the horizontal section of the frames, but I doubt this will have any serious effect on the strength of the structure - especially once the outside frames have been bolted on.

Here is the chassis with the outer frames, cab and bonnet in place.

48DSe3.jpg
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You can see just how little of the cab the Sagami motor takes up. I hope it works OK - I really do! This would make it possible to model just about everything that should be in the cab.

I left it at that for tonight, as I have to be up early tomorrow morning. No time tomorrow for modelling, so it will be Monday before the next exciting installment ;)
Last edited by Armchair Modeller on Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nigelcliffe
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby nigelcliffe » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:15 pm

The Sagami should be OK. I remember when they were popular in 2mm modelling. They rev fast!

The only concern I'd have is whether the loco slips or stalls when give a heavy train. From my 2mm experience, I'd weight the loco so it slips, this is less likely to fry the motor.

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:55 pm

Thanks for that advice Nigel - this loco won't do heavy trains, so your comments give me some confidence that the Sagami might be OK. :thumb

In fact, I would be more than happy if it just moved on its own. Being able to haul trains of any length at all would be a bonus.

Finding the right decoder is possibly the key to ultimate success - once I convert it to DCC. For the time being, I will just run it on DC until I am sure I am happy with its overall performance.

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby nigelcliffe » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:54 am

Small (or very small) motor, DCC, and usually works well - CT Elektronik. You'll also have no problems with space as they are by far the smallest on the market. I've not tried one with a Sagami, but would be surprised if they didn't deliver the usual superb levels of control. Also plenty of space for "stay alive" circuitry in the loco which will reduce tendency to stall; see 2nd of two articles due to appear in Scalefour News sometime this winter.

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Will L » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:49 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:The failed motor gave me the excuse to try the smaller motor I mentioned previously. This is perhaps a very silly idea - especially as we are generally encouraged to fit as large a motor as we can.


Are, the "you need the biggest available motor" myth. Another one of those bit of "knowledge" that hides more than it helps.

The amount of power a loco can use to pull a train is limited by the adhesions between wheel and rail, which is again largely governed by the amount of weight being carried by the driving wheels. Many of the bigger motors turn out enough power to drive models considerably heavier than is practical in 4mm.

What you do have to watch is internal resistance within the chassis. This isn't limited and can absorb a remarkable amount of the locos power output. So if you build stiff chassis, fit big motors and expect to burn out a few. If you can mange a nice free running chassis then any motor that will spin the wheels when faced with a heavy train of an immovable object, will do just fine. Hence Nigel's advice. Mine are all get tested by leaving them running against the buffer. From experience I can say a Mashima 1024 will pull 11 heavy coaches(200 gram a piece +) up hill and down dale continuously without any problems (it slipped to a stand with 13 on the up bit)

Will

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby nigelcliffe » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:10 pm

I think the "big motor" myth has some origins in ancient low power motors. Back in the 1960's, the available motors (eg. K's, Hornby open framed, etc..) were fairly low power considering their physical size. This was due, in part, to the lack of magnetic "oomph" from the available magnets, and often poor control of the shape of the magnetic field.
50 years on, and standard commercially available motors are massively more powerful for the same physical size.

Plus, as Will says, internal friction is often the real enemy. Get that under control and things will work.


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Russ Elliott
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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Russ Elliott » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:46 pm

You're right, Nigel, but big motors deliver more torque at low revs compared to a small motor. That can mean less gears or less space needed for gearing. Big motor and less gears, or small motor and more gears - it's the usual engineering tradeoff.

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Re: Here We Go... Judith Edge Ruston 48DS Kit

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:17 pm

Thanks all for the comments! :thumb

Nigel - I look forward very much to reading your articles. Fitting "stay alive" circuitry is pretty essential for a loco like this, I would imagine.

Everyone - it seems sensible to me to use the gearbox that comes with the kit . As the ratio is 97:1, the Sagami might be a better idea than I had anticipated. I will try very hard to minimise 'internal friction'..........

...and if it doesn't perform well, I still have the option to try another type. :geek:


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