Progress with Slattocks Junction

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Tony W
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Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri May 07, 2010 7:40 pm

Sometimes, in this great hobby of ours, we can decide to build a model, overcome most of its problems with 'relative' ease, build it quickly, and have it in operation before we've even realised. However, more often than not, models, be they items of rolling stock or layouts, take on a life of their own, and seemingly take a lifetime to construct. Sadly Slattocks Junction falls into the latter category, but nobody could ever claim that its progress hasn't been character building! Unfortunately, it has to be said that at times it has been quite sole destroying, but one thing that has never been lacking in the Group is determination. So we've taken the knocks on the chin and turned the negatives into positives, which we believe, will result in a much better layout. It has already taken on more meaning and has given us a much clearer idea of how it will be operated in the future. So what does all this mean in practice?

A quick summary of what has happened so far, and apoogies to those of you who have read much of this before on RMweb and elsewhere, but there will be updates here that have not appeared elsewhere.

Slattocks Junction has already been a long time in the making, as suggested above, but we had got to the stage where all the trackwork was finished and ballasted and virtually all the basic scenery had been designed and assembled, but not necessarily fixed to the layout. It attended Scalefour North in 2004, in bare baseboard state, with some of the trackwork not in use. This proved to be very useful and we had hoped attending this show would give us the impetus to finish the layout relatively quickly. Time past but after a few fits and starts the layout ended up looking like this.
' Slattocks.jpg
The 'old' Slattocks
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' Slattocks 2.jpg
' Slattocks 2.jpg (310.93 KiB) Viewed 12970 times

One of the next stages was to do a final paint of all the trackwork, and as has been previously documented, this proved to be the biggest problem of the lot. Slattocks had been laid with C&L track which had been bought at a time when the then owner of the company had been experimenting with various types of plastic. Our track bases turned out to be polypropylene, which, we all now know, does not take paint without using some chemical process, which we understand would have prevented the use of Dean Hall for the next 200 years!! Given that the track was still in need of some proper fettling the group had a massive decision to make. Do we fettle the track but be forced to repaint at least some of the sleepers every time we took it to a show, or did we take the bull by the horns and rip the whole lot up. After much discussion and heartache a decision was made. The following photo's explain it all, and yes, there was something quite therapeutic about the whole process.
The track demolition gang 1.jpg
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's.jpg
Shades of the 60's
's.jpg (60.52 KiB) Viewed 12970 times

The last remaining bit of track.jpg
The last remaining bit of track
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So we were left with a layout that had already taken an age to build which now had no track on the scenic part of it! We had intended to simply relay the track to the same design and a materials list had been prepared and some parts purchased. However, around this time Dick Petter came along and drew up a revised track plan. Having worked on the layout for some considerable time most of the group were already of the mindset that no alteration should take place but it didn't exactly take too long to realise that Dicks revision gave a much more realistic focus to the layout and offered significantly greater operating potential. So having taken the bold/foolish (delete as appropriate) decision to remove several years of hard work, and still feeling a little shell-shocked about the whole situation, we found ourselves with a revised trackplan which we were very happy with which ticked a number of boxes from the outset. Since then some of the group have been beavering away looking at service patterns on the Manchester Rochdale line and identifying how these could be interpreted on the layout.

The revised plan was drawn out in Templot by Andy Goodman although much of the geometry of the non standard pointwork has been hand drawn by Dick. He was adamant that this pointwork should be of ply and rivet construction and offered to build it himself but because the group had already commited itself to using full height sleepers and track using P4 Track Company components for the plain track a certain amount of readjustment of the ballast bed under the pointwork will be necessary to maintain rail height.

When we first started ballasting Slattocks I was still in short pants, so where possible we are now adopting Dick's method of ballasting as the track is laid. This should save us hours and hours and hours and hours and....... ! The first section of plain track has now been laid and I personally think it is a marked improvement on our last effort. Sorry about the depth of field in one of the photo's, the lighting in Dean Hall isn't bright enough for such close up's.
Dick lays the first track.jpg
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Track laying begins.jpg
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Track laying begins 2.jpg
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And shortly to be fixed in place will be the junction itself. On the prototype this junction forms one side of the Castleton triangle and now this is a proper feature of the layout it opens up the possibilities for some very interesting stock movements.
Slattocks Junction itself.jpg
Slattocks Junction itself.jpg (93.46 KiB) Viewed 12970 times

And thats about it for now. Hopefully, we should now be able to report progress on a more regular basis. There are still one or two big decisions to be made but, hopefully, all will be made to improve the layout for when it hits the road.

Tony

craig_whilding
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby craig_whilding » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:00 pm

As Tony hasn't updated this in a while i'll point out that there is a blog on progress on rmweb http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... p4-layout/ showing we have got a bit more laid now.

Philip Hall
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:31 pm

.
where possible we are now adopting Dick's method of ballasting as the track is laid


Presumably you're laying the track into a bed of glue? I ask because the depth of ballast you've achieved with the full depth sleepers is very good, usually what I would expect to see with thin plastic or ply sleepers. And what glue do you use please?

Philip

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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby craig_whilding » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:56 pm

Philip Hall wrote:.
where possible we are now adopting Dick's method of ballasting as the track is laid

Presumably you're laying the track into a bed of glue? I ask because the depth of ballast you've achieved with the full depth sleepers is very good, usually what I would expect to see with thin plastic or ply sleepers. And what glue do you use please?
Philip

Correct, laid onto a glue base that is normally brushed on quite thinly to avoid build up on sleeper edges.

Its woodglue on the bits Dick has done I believe but I just used PVA on the sections of plainline I laid. Neat, no diluting.

It is the same thickness you get using this method with the thin sleepers but you guarantee particle size wont be anywhere near the top of sleepers when used with the full height ones.

The goods loop will be interesting as well want to have less ballast on that.

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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:26 pm

Last Tuesday, 22nd Nov, the group had its first meeting, outside of a normal club night, for a while. Since the last posting on this forum work has progressed on Slattocks but not at the speed we would have liked. Nevertheless progress is progress and we are now at the stage where we need to refocus to enable us to tackle the next phase of the layouts development. There are no photo’s with this post as it’s the MMRS annual Christmas Bash in 3 weeks time, where all layouts at the club are in operation in one form or another, so I think we will post pictures of what we’ve been up to at that time.

The trackwork on the up and down main (Rochdale) lines is complete and fully wired, as is the goods loop, so they all now need a good running in. Next to lay will be the Bury lines although these will have to have temporary connections into the fiddle yard as the latter will be re-laid to take account of the revised track plan (as has been reported previously).

Over the past 12 months there has been a significant amount of work undertaken on the wiring of the layout and more of this will be included in future posts.

Although much has changed on Slattocks in the last 12 months it is over the next 12 months that visual progress will really be made. It is therefore our intension to post significantly more frequently than we have been doing of late if, for no other reason, than to prevent others from making the same mistakes that we have over the last few years. More on this later……….!

Tony

craig_whilding
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby craig_whilding » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:24 am

I'll do the honours of sticking up a more decent picture of the track layout for now! It looks a little different to the mk1 layout now.
craigwelsh-slattocks_view_along_front.jpg
Overview of Slattocks scenic trackwork Dec 2011


This entry on our use of spaceboard and sculptamould should hopefully have published now though rmweb has had some issues recently http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... lptamould/

Runs quite well too even if my DSLR doesn't really like being a camcorder..
[youtube]s1Y1J6DcciU?hd=1[/youtube]
[youtube]nW3wcx0KFcE?hd=1[/youtube]

DougN
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby DougN » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:25 am

gees that is running very nicely in both directions. I just wish one day I could get all my bits to add up to something like that!!!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:24 pm

It is now almost 12 months since anything was posted on this board about the layout and a progress report is long overdue. However, this does not mean that work has been at a standstill - far from it in fact, but much of the progress has involved work that is not visible once complete such as alterations to the trackbed to ensure rails cross baseboard joints at closer to 90°. As part of the revisions to the track plan the opportunity has been taken to ease the radius of the curves at either end of the layout. One of the problems with the old Slattocks trackwork was the tight curvature at certain spots which had caused the track to gauge narrow. This wasn’t a problem for most stock but any back to back measurements which were at the upper limit for tolerances had a real problem negotiating the curves so the opportunity has been taken to eliminate this problem altogether. Such works are now no longer visible but they are, without doubt, making for a much more reliable layout.

Currently much of the wiring on the scenic boards is being completed. This week has seen Mike Bolton fitting servos to operate all the turnouts and both he and Craig completing the wiring to the crossover. Fortunately we were on hand to record the very first train movement over the crossing on the revised layout.
DSC05585 2.jpg
The first movement over the single slip
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More will be posted on the servos shortly.

At next weeks annual Christmas gathering at Dean Hall we will have the relaid goods yard in operation for the first time.
IMG_1016 2.jpg
The relaid goods yard
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The only outstanding item of track in the goods yard will be the construction of the buffer stops, which has been down to me to complete for longer than I'm prepared to admit to!! For trackwork on the scenic boards this leaves only connecting up the Goods Yard with the main running lines and laying the track towards Bury off the junction itself (essentially both these tasks are part of the same job).

This then takes us to the one remaining task to complete the trackwork of the revised Slattocks Junction. Having taken the courageous (some would rightly say foolish) decision to revise the trackplan on the scenic boards we were left with no choice but to revise the overall plan for the fiddleyard as well. This effectively means a substantial remake of the turnouts to all 12 roads since the radii on the mainline have been eased but the knock on effect of this has been to render most, but not all, the turnouts unusable. Also, since the location of the Junction itself has now moved to the front of the layout rather than at the side as previously, this has also required a revision to the fiddleyard to make it all function properly. Some of the turnouts have been reworked but a considerable number have had to be constructed. This has provided the opportunity for those members of the group who have never attempted trackwork to have a go and virtually all the turnouts are now either complete or are in hand.
IMG_1021 2.jpg
Hand drawn fiddleyard template 1
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IMG_1024 2.jpg
Hand drawn fiddleyard template 2
IMG_1024 2.jpg (236.31 KiB) Viewed 11101 times

Over the past 12 months a significant amount of work has been carried out underneath the baseboards as Mike Bolton has continued to install the new DCC system. I can’t even attempt to understand it fully yet, so I’m certainly not going to attempt to explain it here but what I can say is that the wiring looks commendably logical and faults should be relatively easy to diagnose, even for someone like me! The electrics is an important topic and I don’t feel I can do it justice here. However, it will form the subject of separate articles in the future. I will in fact be posting Mikes article on his development of using servos for turnout operation very shortly.

So, in a nutshell that's about it. Progress hasn't been as quick as any of the group would have liked, and unfortunately much of the progress made in the last 12 months has either been where it cannot easily be spotted or else it has now been covered by other works. All this has been a little bit demoralising as the group is anxious to see more visible progress but this should start coming at a much faster rate. Who knows - it might not be 12 months before another progress report is posted.....!!

Tony

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:57 am

Tracks looking good Tony, mind you looking at your Video again You tube took me to this one to show what you can do, even with very ninimal suspension on the wagons.
Keith

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Flymo748
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:48 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:Tracks looking good Tony, mind you looking at your Video again You tube took me to this one to show what you can do, even with very minimal suspension on the wagons.
Keith


Ahhh... But in the close-up at 3'03" you can see that he's using EM flanges...

;-)
Flymo
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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:16 pm

Good to see the progress Tony, ignore Keith and Paul!

So, MMRS show next year then..............??
Mark Tatlow

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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:19 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:So, MMRS show next year then..............??


I think if we laid track like that in the rest of the fiddleyard Dick Petter would either completely disown us or have us all flogged!!!

Whilst the layout wont see the light of day for at least a couple of years we hope it will really start to come together from this point onwards.

Tony

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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:33 am

Last Saturday 8th December saw this years annual Christmas bash at Dean Hall. It is the most popular event of the MMRS year (apart from the show) when all layouts in the clubroom are operating. This year proved to be just as popular but unfortunately the location of Slattocks in the building makes photography difficult.
DSC05601 1.jpg
Maybe its just the food everyone comes for!
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This was the first time the layout had run with everything wired up properly. Dick Petters unrebuilt Patriot performed faultlessly with a heavy 13 coach train.
DSC05597 1.jpg
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We were also able to have two Black Fives running, produced by Adrian Prescott and John Sherratt as part of former member Colin Wrangles legacy. I'll post a short clip once I've discovered how to reduce the size of the movie file. Its not the best quality but the best that could be achieved peering between the sandwiches!
Two days later Dick was preparing track to be laid on the 'Bury' lines. I think a picture of this may appear in Scalefour News at a later date

Tony

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:31 pm

I'll post a short clip once I've discovered how to reduce the size of the movie file.

If you upload it to Youtube, then they take care of the sizing etc. once done you can embed it here using the "youtube" button above the text entry box.
It looks like things are moving on well.
Regards
Keith

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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:30 pm

Many thanks Keith. Video now uploaded.
Tony

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Mike Garwood » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:12 pm

That is wonderful. A Patriot with a full load on...fantastic! Any chance of some more?

Mike

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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:23 pm

Mike Garwood wrote:That is wonderful. A Patriot with a full load on...fantastic! Any chance of some more?

Mike


Unfortunately I've none of the Patriot but I've found one with Dick Petter's Jubilee. These videos are all shot when there is a running session at Dean Hall. Consequently, the place is always crowded and so they are shot in a hurry. We really must get round to taking some decent footage next year!

Also just found this lurking in the PC. Same location I'm afraid


Tony

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Mike Garwood » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:16 pm

Excellent, stuff, thanks for posting it.

Mike

philip-griffiths
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby philip-griffiths » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:28 pm

Am I alone in being more excited by the excellent LMS carriages, rather than the beautiful locos? Wonderful rake Mike; any notes on the diagram nos, and kit origins? I spotted some LNWR carriages in that formation.

regards

Philip Griffiths

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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:10 pm

philip-griffiths wrote:Am I alone in being more excited by the excellent LMS carriages, rather than the beautiful locos? Wonderful rake Mike; any notes on the diagram nos, and kit origins? I spotted some LNWR carriages in that formation.


Hi Philip

Next time I see Dick I'll ask him

Tony

philip-griffiths
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby philip-griffiths » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:39 pm

thanks Mike.

regards

johnWM
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby johnWM » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:30 pm

It's all good. If you had posted the Jubilee video clip and not told me different I would have assumed it was 7mm finescale.

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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Tue May 07, 2013 10:16 am

Track laying has now commenced on the Bury lines heading towards the fiddleyard. This gives a much better representation of what the actual junction will look like once completed. Compare the picture below to the one in the post dated 7th May 2010 (the original post in this thread).
DSC05843 1.jpg
This view probably justifies track relaying!
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DSC05845 1.jpg
Looking the other way
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All the AJ magnets have now been fitted and are fully operational - not that you can see them in the view below although they haven't been covered up yet. It should be pointed out that final fettling and weathering of the track has not yet been undertaken, hence there is still a hard edge between the ballast on the main line and in the sidings.
DSC05846 1.jpg
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Finally a view looking towards the fiddleyard with track temporarily laid in place. Having revised the track plan it now means that we will have to lay some turnouts across baseboard joints at a less than desirable angle - clearly a down side to revising your plans when construction has already commenced! At least in the fiddleyard it doesn't have to look pretty but it does have to work properly!
DSC05848 1.jpg
'Challenging' is probably the most appropriate term!
DSC05848 1.jpg (94.53 KiB) Viewed 9388 times

Tony

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Tony W
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby Tony W » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:29 am

Doesn't time fly when you're having fun? Well fly as it might I'm more than aware that it has been nearly two years since I last posted on progress of the layout. In fact there has been more posted about it in Scalefour News during that time! The reason for this is because much of the work has taken place 'behind the scenes' and there has not been a huge amount of 'visible 'work to report on. This will be changing shortly and so this is an ideal time to start reporting again.

However before anything is said about what we are currently up to I think a bit of catching up is required. This thread was left with the trackwork into both ends of the fiddleyard still to be constructed. This major piece of trackbuilding was required because of the changes main to the front scenic boards. To save you looking back at posts these were the images of the left and right side of the fiddle yard.
IMG_1021 2.jpg
Fiddleyard left side with hand drawn template
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IMG_1024 2.jpg
Fiddleyard right side with hand drawn template
IMG_1024 2.jpg (236.31 KiB) Viewed 6326 times

The turnouts proved to be a great exercise in trackbuilding for everyone in the group. However, everyone can interpret a plan in a different way and it proved quite a task to ‘stitch’ these together.
DSC07368 1.jpg
Note: Tortoise motors have not been used on the main boards
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DSC07367 1.jpg
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Also, altering the geometry of the trackwork mean that some extremely awkward angles where created across baseboard joints.
DSC07372 1.jpg
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This really is a lesson in how NOT to build a model railway. That said, stock went across this lot first time and has continued to do so even though the baseboards have been parted many times.

Thats all for now. I promise it wont be two years before the next post!!

Tony

JFS
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Re: Progress with Slattocks Junction

Postby JFS » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:27 pm

Many thanks for the update Tony - nice to see that things are still happening!

Just regarding your baseboard-joints-in-the-middle-of-turnouts... one suggestion would be to put checkrails on the insides of the curves - the one advantage of the break being on such an angle is that there would be an unbroken check rail opposite, thus considerably reducing the risk of flange climb at the joint.

Cheers,


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