GWR Autocoaches

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David B
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GWR Autocoaches

Postby David B » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:22 am

Can anyone tell me what the internal doors between compartments were like? Were they glazed or solid? Photos I have seen of interiors all have the doors open!

David

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Russ Elliott
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Re: GWR Autocoaches

Postby Russ Elliott » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:25 am

Depends on the diagram, David. Generally, glazed double doors were the norm for the driving cabs. Passenger vestibule doors also tended to be double, but I'm not so sure they were always glazed, probably earlier diagrams were solid. Passenger vestibule doors were invariably left fully opened, so the modelling question can be somewhat academic.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevin_r_bo ... /lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crashcalloway/1141284349/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55223176@N ... /lightbox/
http://www.auto169.co.uk/
http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/blueb ... jan08h.jpg
http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/blueb ... feb08h.jpg

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David B
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Re: GWR Autocoaches

Postby David B » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:06 pm

Thanks, Russ. I thought there would be differences between the diagrams, but also a general principle.

I am building a Diag A7 which is an early conversion of a matchboard 59' 6" railmotor. The etched doors are all solid with the 'glass' part half etched.

David

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Russ Elliott
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Re: GWR Autocoaches

Postby Russ Elliott » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:10 pm

Probably the best reference for the early trailers is Railmotor 93, which has single solid vestibule doors:

Image

Image

(Both pics from http://www.railmotor93.org)

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Noel
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Re: GWR Autocoaches

Postby Noel » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:32 pm

With reference to Russ's earlier posting, so far as I know, Collett and Hawkesworth/BR designs all had solid unglazed internal doors throughout. Vestibule doors were double sliding, those to the luggage space and driver's cab were the same in some diagrams, single in others. Glazing is, again so far as I am aware, a post-preservation alteration.

References:-
Steam Days 9, April-June 1988 p28 - W242W in October 1964 showing single unglazed driver's compartment door
Great Western Autotrailers Part 2, John Lewis p273 and Model Railway Journal 138 p273 - both show the large saloon of W179W, apparently on different occasions. The symmetry of the internal arrangements does nothing to help, but one view includes notices and a cupboard, which the other does not, so I deduce that we are probably looking at opposite ends of the saloon. The external views on the adjacent pages again seem to suggest solid internal driver's doors. Russ's link to the photo of W169W at Hirwain may seem to suggest a glazed internal door, but I think this is probably due to reflections in the front windows.
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Noel

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Russ Elliott
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Re: GWR Autocoaches

Postby Russ Elliott » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:40 pm

Thanks Noel. I don't have access to my books at the moment, so your references are useful. Good point about the post-preservation attitude to the glazing; I wondered about that too. However, here's 169 pre-preservation, which has got double glazed doors to the driving compartment, and double solids for the vestibule:

Image

Image

Image

(last two pics are c John Wood, from the http://www.auto169.co.uk site)

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Noel
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Re: GWR Autocoaches

Postby Noel » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:17 pm

As you may have guessed from the delay, Russ, I've been looking for evidence for A27 in my library. Lewis has pictures of 169/170 on p258, and of 164 on pp260-1, both at angles where I would expect something of the saloon windows to be visible through the cab windows if the doors were either open or glazed. "The Ely Valley Railway" by Colin Chapman has on pp 112 and 124 views of an A27, probably 159, which seem to show solid doors to the driving cab. However, none of these is the sort of evidence I would want to rely on in court, and I may have misinterpreted them :D.

Given that Swindon's usual attitude to standardisation lays all sorts of traps for the unwary I am left with three possibilities:
Solid doors were the norm but A27 was different
A27 had solid doors but 169 was different
or
169 was altered during the 20+ years it spent as an internal user at Gloucester MPD before entering preservation.

In other words, I dunno :evil:.

Noel
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Noel

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David B
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Re: GWR Autocoaches

Postby David B » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:42 pm

I took this image of the interior of lovely SRM at Didcot last autumn. The doors to the driving compartments are single and solid - all the other doors are solid. However, there appears to be just one double door (which is wider) between the centre vestibule and the larger saloon, all the remaining doors are single. I have a shot from the other side and the doors at each end of the far compartment are single.

This, however, is a SRM and I am interested more particularly in the autocoach, where the double doors appear to be much more common. Noel's point about the glazing during restoration is a distinct possibility, but haven't people tried to be accurate when restoring? Perhaps some doors were glazed later in coaches' life - 'tis a mystery. There doesn't seem to be a particular policy though there do seem to be more solid doors than glazed ones.

I also took a picture inside the diesel railcar at Didcot and the door to the driving compartment there is glazed.

I have searched through my own resources and whilst there appears to be light in various openings, the evidence of glazing is not there, it being impossible to tell whether a door has been left open or is glazed. Is there anyone who remembers travelling in these vehicles, before nationalization?

Many thanks for everyone's thoughts and contributions.

David

SRM interior_3394.jpg
SRM interior_3394.jpg (196.7 KiB) Viewed 7944 times

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Noel
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Re: GWR Autocoaches

Postby Noel » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:29 pm

David, coaches on preserved lines are not museum pieces but working vehicles. Their owners therefore, as did BR before them, can and do make changes to them to suit their intended use. I would always be wary about assuming that a preserved vehicle is in original condition, while major restorations or conversions such as the SRM can only be as accurate as the information used [which is not intended as a criticism of the SRM, just making a general point].

On memory, I used to travel regularly on the Weymouth-Yeovil Town autotrains in the early 1950s, until we moved to Torquay, but remember nothing about the vehicles I travelled in. I was only 8 when we moved, mind!

Noel
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Noel

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HowardGWR
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Re: GWR Autocoaches

Postby HowardGWR » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:34 pm

David has not stated which era he is modelling. I suppose the window in door issue would be visible, just. I think the Wild Swan Coach 4mm books are very good on what you can model of the interior, which is worth the candle.


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