Brian Morgan TOUs

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
David Catton
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Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby David Catton » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Hi,

I've been following Robin Whittle's blog on RMWeb in which he mentions using Brian Morgan TOUs (as available from the stores) on Barrow Road. Pardon my ignorance but are these suitable for non-GWR pointwork? I assume those for B and C switches may be but confirmation would be useful.

More importantly, has anyone (apart from Brian and Robin!) used these on a layout and would they be a good solution to point operation on a layout that includes several tandem points?

Any advice gratefully received while I try to resist the spending itch . . .

Cheers,

David C

craig_whilding
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby craig_whilding » Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:33 pm

I don't think Robin is building any GWR pointwork (its an LMS shed anyway) so i'd assume they do work on REA switches. He also has a tandem on his layout.

I was going to wait for Robin to get one working before I gave them a go, hopefully he can do all the work interpreting the instructions too that way ;).

The design does get around the issue with the Exactoscale design. On that there is a long way from the operating bar to the switch rails and the plastic tends to be a bit too flexible.

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45609
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby 45609 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:28 pm

As the person that drew the templot plan for Barrow Road I can confirm that they are all REA turnouts. There is indeed a tandem tunout as well as a double slip, 2 single slips and a 3 way. The latter may be a bit of a challenge with the TOUs.

I saw the first assembled TOU today on a left hand B6 and it looked very good. There were a couple of things that we agreed could be improved. One of these includes making a revised drilling jig for the tufnol slider holes with a 1mm wider spacing than the etched drilling jig provided. Perhaps Robin will post a picture to explain.

On the strength of what we saw we also decided to adopt these TOUs for the Brinkley extension.

Cheers....Morgan

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barrowroad
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby barrowroad » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:31 am

I have just spotted this thread. The turnouts I am using on Barrow Road are indeed Brian Morgan units specifically the DN1450U B, C switch for P4. They are £7 each from the stores.

Morgan mentions a few issues with the units which are minor ones and do not detract from the excellent design of the unit.

The instructions recommend the use of an 8BA bolt and nut to attach the crank arm. I have decided to use a nyloc here and have changed to a metric equivalent M2.5 bolt with nyloc as I was unable to source 8BA nylocs.
The kit provides a piece of tufnol approx 60mm x 50mm for the switch operating bar which has to be cut 5mm x 30mm. The kit provides a fold up etched jig which grips the tufnol strip and has holes 16.5mm apart for drilling the holes for the droppers. As Morgan mentioned this spacing is, in our view, too narrow and should be 17.5mm for P4. On using the kit jig the clearance between the switch and stock rails was noticably too large.

Morgan has kindly produced a new drilling jig for me with the 17.5mm spacing.

One further issue for me centres around the width of the tufnol operating bar. The kit jig accepts a piece of tufnol 4.92mm wide and Brian suggests you thin this to around 4.5mm stating that it must be a slack fit in the channel. Now I have measured the channel width at 5.2mm and consider a 0.7mm difference to be too slack. Accordingly I have not bothered to further thin the tufnol.
The units still work well with the wider tufnol operating bar.

I am aware this post could do with a few photos to make the above clearer so I will add some shortly.

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barrowroad
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby barrowroad » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:45 am

Here are the missing photos from my previous post.

Morgan's Jig.JPG
Here is Morgan's new jig with the 17.5mm centres for the droppers. The centre hole is for the 10BA bolt for the operating crank.


Brian Morgan Jig.JPG
Here is the Brian Morgan etched jig showing an tufnol operating unit with 10BA bolt and brass tube inserts for the switch droppers


Brian Morgan TOU etches.JPG
The TOU etches, one for the standard B, C switch, the other showing one half of the double slip. Brian also does a single slip.


Part built for Brinkley.JPG
This is one of the part built units I have added retrospectively to a turnout for the club layout Brinkley. The decision to use these units came after seeing the completed North Exit unit [see next photo] and I have 'volunteered' to add them to the remaining new pointwork.


Barrow Road North Exit TOU.JPG
Here is a close up of the underside of the TOU for Barrow Road north exit. It shows the base plate, tufnol operating bar in it's guide, and the operating crank on it's etched mount. The crank gives 12mm clearance under the board but Brian also provides a 15mm version as an extra.


North Exit close up.JPG
A close up of the top side of the unit


North Exit TOU.JPG
The north exit unit


North Exit TOU - underside.JPG
An overall view of the underside of the north exit TOU. The strips of 6mm wide black card have been added to minimise the contact surface for gluing to the baseboard and assists future removal of trackwork without damage. Credit for this idea goes to group member Graham Turner who, unknown to me, incorporated it in the original build of Brinkley. It is well proven as some of the track on this layout required relaying and was removed without damage and relayed. The advantage is the card can be cut to remove trackwork.

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newport_rod
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby newport_rod » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:45 pm

Robin and Morgan

With two years' more experience are you still as happy with the Brian Morgan TOUs? Anything you'd do differently now? We're about to start track laying on Little Mill Junction and are seriously considering these units.

Rod

mkfuzzhead
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby mkfuzzhead » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:08 am

Interestingly I saw these TOUs referenced in the MRJ 268 article for Bristol Barrow Road.

Not having been aware of these before I thought they would provide an excellent discrete solution rather than an unsightly hole in the baseboard.

A quick web search led me to this forum post; most helpful.

Given the intervening years since this thread was running are there useful experiences that can be shared? I ask as I'm considering building a layout (against a Templot design with REA switches) and thought these might warrant careful consideration.

Steve

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barrowroad
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby barrowroad » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:07 pm

Hi Steve,

These TOUs do require a 'T' shape slot to be cut in your baseboard to accommodate the tufnol operating arm and the crank lever. I made up a jig when fitting the units to Barrow Road - I have the measurements I used somewhere. The brass base plate covers the hole.
The single units operate well but if you are planning to make up a single or double slip please contact me.

Robin

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barrowroad
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby barrowroad » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:34 am

The double slip poses a number of problems not found with the standard TOU or the single slip.
The double slip has a pair of crank arms at each end as designed. The original instructions - I don't know if Brian amended them - suggest operating the double slip using the two cranks, one at each end, at each side of the unit. This makes no sense. Both the double slips on Barrow Road are operated at each end by a set of additional levers which I mounted on a wooden base.
IMG_20190206_163749944_LI.jpg

Double Slip - Brian's original instructions suggest operation using the two levers along each side.

IMG_20190206_163749944_LI (2).jpg

My operation is using cranks at each end.

IMG_20190206_163335753_LI.jpg

Note the two levers indicated and the size of the cut out in the board to accommodate them.
The 3mm mdf board marked LT43b is the operating unit containing a number of additional levers positioned so that both the indicated cranked levers operate at the same time to throw one end of the double slip. Note that the lever directly linked to the cobalt point motor is adjustable. All these items are, or should be available from the stores. Also note the brass wire linking the levers on the mdf board are in two pieces linked by a piece of interference fit brass tube which allows adjustment before soldering up in their final position.


One further problem I found relates to the brass mounting plate. On the D's this is in three parts as opposed to two on the others. This means the n/s wires which connect the two centre blades both go through holes on this plate. I had to enlarge the two oval holes in this plate as I found one touched the plate and one extreme of movement which caused a short.
IMG_20190206_163659302_LI.jpg


I modified another D's that I built for Brinkley the group layout. The mod provides direct drive to the tufnol slide which allowed me to remove all the cranks.
I'll try and get a photo of this tomorrow.

The two double slips on my Barrow Road layout work fine, but in retrospect I think the number of cranks and levers required to operate the double slip is a bit over the top and causes problems getting the unit to work well.

junctionmad
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby junctionmad » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:19 am

Theres a lot of " gubbins " under that board :)

dave

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barrowroad
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby barrowroad » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:00 pm

Here are a couple of photos of the modified double slip as used on Brinkley the Glevum Group layout. This layout uses Lemaco motors which gave additional problems driving the Double slip. As the unit was installed on the layout I modified it by removing the cranked levers and substituting a one piece length of tufnol for the two on the original version. This length of tufnol was cut longer to fit an outboard screw with a length of tube soldered over the thread to give a fixing point for the 'Z' length of brass rod which links the motor to the turnout.

IMG_20190207_112707242_LI.jpg


IMG_20190207_112806355_LI.jpg


This does away with most of the 'gubbins'

davebradwell
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby davebradwell » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:22 am

They're all beautifully made but surely, none of the blades are opening far enough. My switch drawing gives 4 1/4" (1.4mm) opening but this measured from a straight stock rail. I don't have drgs of switches with joggled stock rails but the opening of a blade wrt the gauge face must be the same or a wheel will hit the end. On the photos the opening is about half a rail thickness wrt the gauge before the joggle which is barely the checkrail gap. This must lead to trouble. A 1.4 drill held horizontally along the railhead before the joggle should slide in behind the blade. Perhaps Jeremy's initial drilling position was correct after all.

DaveB

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barrowroad
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby barrowroad » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:55 pm

Hi Dave,

You are correct the gap on the blades on this double slip are in need of adjustment and are on my list. This was my first double slip and as it has only recently been wired tests have revealed 0-6-0s negotiate without any problems but longer wheel base engines with pony trucks tend to foul on the blade. Well spotted.

Robin

mkfuzzhead
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Re: Brian Morgan TOUs

Postby mkfuzzhead » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:11 pm

barrowroad wrote:Hi Steve,

These TOUs do require a 'T' shape slot to be cut in your baseboard to accommodate the tufnol operating arm and the crank lever. I made up a jig when fitting the units to Barrow Road - I have the measurements I used somewhere. The brass base plate covers the hole.
The single units operate well but if you are planning to make up a single or double slip please contact me.

Robin


Thanks Robin.

The subsequent discussion regarding the double slip is interesting and importantly highlights the complexity of setting up such units. This is something that will require my careful consideration when deciding whether to use the TOUs in such circumstances.

An excellent thread.

Steve


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