JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - Anchor Mount Tanks

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Andy W
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Andy W » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:23 am

Lovely work Justin. You say the plywood van will be etched. Would 3D printing not be an option now you've done the artwork? I ask as someone with no knowledge of that process. I do know, however, how difficult is is to produce 3D artwork to the standard you've achieved. Interesting stuff.
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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:31 pm

Hi Andy,

Thanks for you kind words.

I'm not sure how feasable it would really be to do the bodies as a 3D print. I've had stuff done by Shapeways and even in extreme FUD the finish still isn't that great. I did the vacuum cylinders as a 3D print before Morgan did those wonderful masters and there is no comparison. I want the stuff I produce to be as good as the brass and injention moulded plastic that are used in the rest of my models. Additive 3D printing just isn't good enough yet in my opinion especially where you don't have nice detail free surfaces to sand flat after priming. Stereolithography (as used my Modelu) is much, much better but as with the additive process it's expensive (a quick back of a fag packet calculation would suggest around £60-75 for the body). This is fine for creating masters for reproduction using other means but is no good as a production process except for very small items. I haven't really looked into the viabiliy of using resin casting for whole bodies but it could be an option in the future depending on the result achieved. Currently I see the best option for producing these things to be etched brass combined with clever jigs to make assembly as easy as possible. That might change at some point though as the technology improves and costs come down. 3D printing is and will continue to be a wonderful tool to so certain things but at the moment it isn't a panecea for easily producing high quality models.

Justin

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jim s-w
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jim s-w » Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:07 pm

Hi Justin

I hope you don't mind the slight hijack but here's one of your chassis under a Cambrian Turbot

Image

Cheers

Jim

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:43 pm

Hi Jim,

I don't mind at all. Your Turbot looks fantastic! I really like the weathering.

Hopefully they'll be a similar etch along for the Mainline/Bachmann Bogie Bolster C/Macaw Bs in the not too distant future. Looking forward to that particular project. I like bogie freight vehicles. You get a lot of train for your modelling time especially when compared to 10' wheelbase 4 wheel stock!

Justin

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:42 pm

Firstly some virtual modelling before we move into the realms of things that actually exist in the physical world.

Last time I mentioned some wagon springs that I intended to get 3D printed. These have evolved to included axleboxes and even more spring types. So far I have done drawings for 6 types of axlebox and 6 types of spring. All are for the BR period covering four types of oil axleboxes and two types of roller bearing along with 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 leaf springs and the LMS 7 leaf J hanger types as fitted to wagons with the LMS clasp brake. The backs of the axleboxes are slotted to suit my sprung underframes. These are currently with Modelu awaiting printing.

BR 2 Part Oil Axlebox + 6 Leaf Springs.jpg

BR 2 Part Square Oil Axleboxes + 5 Leaf Springs.jpg

BR 16T Oil Axlebox + LMS 7 Leaf Springs.jpg

BR Platefront Oil Axlebox + LMS 7 Leaf Springs.jpg

BR Roller Bearing - Hooded + 8 Leaf Springs.jpg

The BR 1/801 Fish Van saga is nearly at an end. Aside from trying to sort out the roof one of the things that has delayed the whole thing has been revisions to the etch artwork and another test build. These have been in an attempt to make the body as easy as possible to build without losing any detail. I’ve seen plenty of etches that look fantastic but at the same time a nightmare to actually put together.

801 1.JPG

The general method is to laminate together a series of layers for the sides and ends using wire pins to keep everything aligned. You end up with what you might expect to find in a Parkside kit. Everything is then attached to a central frame. Nothing original about the use of pins to align layers but it work so well I can’t understand others don’t use it more often.

801 2.JPG

802 3.JPG

The first of several etches for the bogie bolster C project has been assembled. This is a complete underframe for one of the vacuum braked examples that were fitted with BR plate bogies (the arrangement of the brakegear was slightly different on those fitted with Gloucester bogies).

BBC 1.JPG

The trussing is from 1.2mm L section, cut at the relevant points and bent to shape over an etch frame. Other etches will cover unfitted underframes (including D/C brakegear) and simple levers and vees to detail the Bachmann model.

BBC 2.JPG

The original intention was to use of Bachmann bodies with these underframes however this is currently under review. There are things about them that don’t look great (the top of the solebar being moulded onto the body side for one) but also because the plastic used is a pig to work with. With my period being the mid sixties I want several Bogie Bolster Cs with the steel channel bolsters rather that the wooden ones on the Bachmann model. This means removing the bolsters on the Bachmann model which is not easy at all. So I’m currently thinking about creating a master for the body and getting them cast to go with the complete underframes.

I’ve also recently undertaken a couple of interesting commissions.

Firstly are 3D printed signs for Robin Gay and his Wantage tramway project. The artwork was created from pictures and a sample font for the lettering. The quality of the 3D printing from Modelu is fantastic. The 4mm version is just 23mm long!

Wantage Signs.JPG

Second is an etch for windows for Bitterley signal box. This is for Gordon Ashton’s latest project. Gordon wasn’t happy with the suitability of what he could find already available so I had a go using photos of the box and known dimensions.

Bitterley.JPG

I shall look forward to seeing the end result of both of these items at some point!

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iak
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby iak » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:15 pm

Exciting excellence Justin.
The springs and axleboxes will go down a bundle.
As for the wagons? Wibbly wallet time again :D
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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:52 pm

Thanks iak.

I'm definately looking forward to seeing how the axleboxes and springs turn out. They should look really good. Might we see you in Wakefield?

Justin

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Lord Colnago
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Lord Colnago » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:59 pm

Hi Justin,

I'm sure the fish van will provide me with hours of fun and I might just need a big bag of those springs! I also like the sound of what you're planning for the Bogie Bolster C body. See you at Wakefield.

John.
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Guy Rixon
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Guy Rixon » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:06 pm

The springs look excellent. What software did you use to draw them?

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iak
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby iak » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:00 am

jjnewitt wrote:Thanks iak.

I'm definately looking forward to seeing how the axleboxes and springs turn out. They should look really good. Might we see you in Wakefield?

Justin


Health permitting Justin.
Mind, I said that last year. :cry:
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:51 am

Guy Rixon wrote:The springs look excellent. What software did you use to draw them?


I'm using Autodesk's Fusion 360 and have been quite impressed with it. http://www.autodesk.co.uk/products/fusion-360/overview. It's a cloud based CAD program which means you need a half decent internet connection but has the advantage that you don't need a high spec computer to actually run it. It appears to be aimed primarily at the 3D printing market but has more functionality than that and they are working on it all the time. It's not a full blown engineering program like Solidworks or Inventor but it's seems to have most of the basic drawing capabilities of them.

Justin

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:57 am

No virtual modelling in this update, all real world stuff. As mentioned elsewhere I collected the 3D test prints of the BR era axleboxes and springs. The weather was much brighter this morning so I had chance to take a few photographs:

16T.JPG
5 leaf spring with '16T' oil axlebox

BR 2 Part Square.JPG
5 leaf spring with BR 2 part square oil axlebox

BR 2 Part.JPG
6 leaf spring with BR 2 part oil axlebox

LMS  + Platefront.JPG
LMS 7 leaf spring with BR platefront axlebox

6 Leaf Roller Bearing.JPG
6 leaf spring with hooded roller bearing

9 Leaf Spring.JPG
9 leaf spring

The only thing that I'm not completely happy with is the definition in the gap between individual springs. This is entirely down to my drawings so I will rework them and see if I can get a bit more of a gap. Modelu's printers have tried to do it but it was a bit too small on the artwork. The 'steps' visable in some of the prints will be taken care of once the casting masters are in brass.

The shot is for comparison with some of the springs that are already out there. Along the top are, from left to right, an MJT 5 leaf spring with RCH axlebox, a Wizard models LMS spring with J hangers and an MJT 9 leaf.

Comparison.JPG

Something else that I've been playing with is a mechanism for springing buffers. I've never been very fond of little coil springs in the buffer housing. They always seem to stick, vary in size and so spring rate within a batch and are most of the time seem too strong for their purpose. So I've done a few test pieces which use steel guitar wire for the springs. They are of sourse intended for use with my chassis and the initial results are very promising. Finding the right gauge of wire will involve a bit of trial and error depending on the situation but changing them is a doddle. The cooupling hook is one of mine that will be available soon along with BR type instanter links.

Buffer Springing.JPG

Something else that I forgot to put onto the last update was another variation in the 'find another use for Parkside PC02A sides saga'. This time it's a BR 1/040 Shocopen. The usual spec for these was corrugated steel ends but due to steel shortages in 1952 part of a lot were built with wooden ends. The sides have been deepened by 0.5mm using plasticard strip. The eagle eyed will notice the lack of door springs on the chassis. It also has the wrong type of lever guard. Thus is down to the fact that it's been pinched from a BR Shocvan for photographic purposes. It's not in the latest product list but I've got one set of etches for this in my box for this weekend. If anyone wants it ask me.

BR 040 Wooden Ended Shocopen.JPG

Justin

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Lord Colnago
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Lord Colnago » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:08 pm

Interesting stuff indeed, Justin.

The axleboxes and springs look promising and the buffer springing mechanism certainly gets my interest. The 1/040 etch interests me too. I must not be greedy though. If no one else wants it, I'll happily give it a go.

See you at the weekend.

John.
The second best priest

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:14 pm

Hi John,

Really pleased with how the springs and axleboxes are coming along. I will of course have then at Scalefour North for you and indeed anyone else to have a look at.

You've already got a set of etches for the BR wooden ended Shocopen in your pile. I had a couple of sheets done of the one that it was on so I've got a second in my box.

Justin

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Lord Colnago
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby Lord Colnago » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:16 pm

Cheers Justin,

I'm struggling to remember just what I've ordered!
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iak
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby iak » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:54 pm

They look fabbo Justin.
Your attention and commitment to utilising the new technology is inspired and well worth it. When these appear, I sense a lot of very happy wagon nuts :thumb
The springing is intriguing, I could be tempted to have a play even. Lord knows how many coil springs have bitten the dust at The Works, I gave up in the end and went back to solid buffers. Mind, when do you aim to get the BR instanters out please?

Hope to be in Wakefield on Sunday - fate permitting. I've missed too many events to say anything for definite after the past few years. WIBBLE! :shock:

Sláinte
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:41 pm

iak wrote:The springing is intriguing, I could be tempted to have a play even. Lord knows how many coil springs have bitten the dust at The Works, I gave up in the end and went back to solid buffers.

I don't blame you. Given the spring rates of many of the coil springs solid isn't far behind in terms of performance and the easier option.

iak wrote:Mind, when do you aim to get the BR instanters out please?

I'll have some stocks of the BR Instanter links this weekend. I got some done on the edges of a couple of sheets so there aren't masses and masses of them but I've got a few. I forgot to add them to the latest price list! I will do so next time round. If you can't make it to Wakefield and want some drop me a line and I can get some in the post.

Hope to see you Sunday,
Justin

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iak
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby iak » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:38 pm

Smashing. :thumb

Sláinte
Iain
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
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Will L
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby Will L » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:52 pm

I know perception is personal, but I've always found the current generation of minute coiled buffer spring entirely satisfactory. I agree they are inclined to offer themselves irrevocably to the GCG but I've never had trouble getting spares, but as for being solid? I can't help felling your doing something wrong. I don't find they stick either, not once properly installed, and I've converted all sorts over the years.

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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby dal-t » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:36 pm

Well, I'm glad Will said that, because I've been sitting here wondering how on earth I've managed in my ham-fisted way to get something so wrong as to actually be right - since I've never had had any trouble with (coil-)sprung buffers either. Mind you, I have cut a few pair of teeth on their larger-scale 7mm brothers, which I've actually found more liable to bind than their smaller brethren (but then the garden railway stock did tend to get left out from time to time ...). That exquisite-looking CSB arrangement, though, whilst undoubedly nearer to the leaf-spring arrangement of the pre-group prototypes I model, looks far too fiddly for me. Wasn't there something about not fixing what ain't broke, or have I mangled that one up as well?
David L-T

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:00 pm

Perhaps it's just me, but I've never really got on with them. Of course I could be the one fitting them incorrectly...

Solid is an overkill on my part but they do seem to be pretty siff most of the time and I wonder what practical use they are unless you have heavy stock? In most situations mine didn't seem to move at all. They certainly aren't needed to protect the thing against possible damage by being run into by other very heavy vehicles (which is what I assume they were there on the prototype to do?) so why do we have them? If it's to attempt to equalise some of the forces involved when being propelled then they need to give and in my experience of using them they don't really seem to do that. If we don't use them for that purpose what do use them for?

As I've said I don't get on with them and that's not for the want of trying. In that regards I would consider them broke and in need of fixing but no one else necessarily needs to worry about that. I would also like to try having wagons spaced somewhere near the prototype (fitted rakes that aren't a scale foot apart for instance) and still able to get aorund 4' curves without coming off (in which case the buffers are going to have to give big time).

If other people find them fine then they're more than welcome continue with them. There are 1800 odd members in this society and probably 1800 different ways of doing things. No one's forcing anything on anyone else!

Justin

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Mike Garwood
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby Mike Garwood » Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:41 am

jjnewitt wrote:Perhaps it's just me, but I've never really got on with them. Of course I could be the one fitting them incorrectly...
Justin


Your not on your own with this one...have you thought about applying the same technology for kit built coaches? Preferably Comet coaches, with a GWR twist. I know of a rake of 9 Collet coaches that would benefit from this type of buffering. :)

Something for you to mull over on the weekend, you won't be that busy. :D

Have a great show.

Mike

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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby Paul Hutfield » Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:15 pm

Mike Garwood wrote: .........you won't be that busy. :D

Have a great show.

Mike


Thanks Mike! Well I for one am absolutely cream crackered! I doubt Justin feels any different! :-P An additional coffee stop on the way back last night was very much needed!! Once again another fantastic show, if anything we felt time away from the stand was at an even greater premium than at previous shows! Really good to see so many returning customers and to hear how they are progressing with their previous progress!

With regards to the sprung buffer discussion and having spoke to Justin about his experiences, I think the more specific topic of this argument is maintaining consistency throughout a rake of wagons. I have fitted coil sprung buffers before which have worked when tested individually. However when testing the sprung qualities of 2 wagons together, invariably one wagon's sprung buffers will compress before the other, either due to varying spring lengths, varying compression qualities or ultimately inconsistencies that have crept in during construction. I'm sure there are valid arguments that people have used sprung buffers without any problems in the past, however surely any measures taken to improve consistency throughout your rolling stock can only help mitigate against variable running qualities that could lead to derailments etc? Fortunately as I'm still at a relatively early position with my own modelling plans I can consider fitting Justin's sprung buffer units to all my stock and am likely to do so, however I also realise that some people are probably too far down the line with their own modelling to consider adopting this approach.

Best Wishes

Paul

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Lord Colnago
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby Lord Colnago » Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:35 pm

Hi Justin,

I am also in the camp of those struggling with coil buffer springs, or perhaps I should say that I was. If you check out page 4 of my wagon tutorial, about three postings down, that nice Mr. Rixon explains the problem and how to solve it far better than I can. I adopted his approach on the Conflat L and the results were far superior to anything that I had done before. Having said that, I'm looking forward to having a go with your springing method at my earliest convenience, but at least now, thanks to Guy's advice, I can sort out all those dodgy sprung buffers that I have fitted in the past.
The second best priest

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - 3D Printed BR Era Axleboxes and Springs

Postby jjnewitt » Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:04 pm

A complete redesign of the Rumney Models website has taken up a fair amount of my time recently but there has been some progress on projects, most of which will end up on the whizzy new web portal.

A second round of wagon axlebox and springs test prints were recieved at the Scalefour Society's AGM recently and have been signed off. They have since been sent off and recieved back from a firm that does lost wax casting to see what they looked liked. Pretty good is the answer. The folowing shows a 6 leaf spring with plate front axlebox as well as castings for GWR plate freight bogies.

July 2016 Brass Springs and Axleboxes.JPG

All the development work for this project is now complete and I can move forward to getting the production masters printed and then turned into castings. Not a moment too soon either. I've got a load of wagons waiting to be finished!

This should probably be elsewhere on this forum in the milk tanks section but as I'm posting here... I have recently been very busy with artwork for United Dairies and Unigate milk tank plates. Assuming all looks good when I recieve the etches back they will be available in both 4mm and 7mm scales.

July 2016 United Dairies Milk Tank Numberplates.jpg

The test build of the BR 1/448 clasp braked Tube chassis is now complete. I'm quite pleased with how this has turned out. These will be available soon. I like long wagons like these. The chassis takes about the same length of time to build as a 17'6" clasp brake chassis but you get nearly two wagons worth of train length for your time!

July 2016 BR 448 Tube.JPG

The mamouth Bogie Bolster C project also rumbles on and the first round of detailing parts are on schedule for release in September. The following photo shows unfitted lever brakegear fitted to a Bachmann model. More details will be posted nearer the time.

July 2016 Bogie Bolster C Detailing.JPG

Development work on the freight bogies is also complete. There will be four at first, all plate types: GWR and GWR heavy duty with those lovely scallop shall axleboxes as well as BR oil and roller bearing. These should be available before too long but I wont be ordering the etches until I know when the castings (see above) are going to arrive which means they may not make the September releases.

July 2016 BR Plate Freight Bogie.JPG

I will be at Larkrail later this month. It looks to be a great show so if you're in the area do come along.

Justin


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