JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons - Anchor Mount Tanks

David Knight
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby David Knight » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:43 am

Hi Justin,

That sounds fair enough :thumb . I have a few of the Bachmann wagons sitting about myself and I thought they could be improved with some, ahem, 'spring' in their step but etchers on this side of the pond are a bit thin on the ground as far as I can tell, never mind the drafting end of it. There's also a Caley 812 needs my attention... :roll:

Cheers,

David

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Dave K
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Dave K » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:13 am

davknigh wrote:Justin,

Have you ever given any thought to the 14T tank wagons as a possible item for a sprung frame?

Cheers,

David


Justin,
If you a looking for another interesting prototype that needs an etched chassis, how about the 'Presflo Cement' wagon.

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:20 am

dave k wrote:If you a looking for another interesting prototype that needs an etched chassis, how about the 'Presflo Cement' wagon.


What like this?

F Quainton 2013 108.JPG

F Quainton 2013 100.JPG

Quite possibly the most complicated vacuum braking system yet devised by man! Perhaps with the exception of the later Prestwins. Sadly none of those survive so I can't confirm my suspicions. There were two variations used under Presflos, one complicated and the other even more so. This is the even more so version. I have all the measurements and photos I need but this would be a big job to draw up. Nothing I've done so far apart from the plate W-Irons and spring carriers could be cut and pasted to make life easier. They are on the big list but there are other things to be done first.

Justin

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:16 pm

Diagram 1/102 16T Mineral

102 16T F.JPG

Having given up on the idea of doing chassis for the Cambrian steel minerals (the bodies are all over the place) I thought I'd have a go at carving a Parkside body into a 1/102. This was similar to the welded body 21T mineral conversion seen on the previous page. Work involved carving off the top door and then redoing the reinforcing strip at the top of the sides by filling the gap where the door was, filing back the moulding and adding a new edge from 0.005" plasticard. Note that corner caps are absent as this type didn't have them. You could use a Bachmann non-top door 16T mineral to create a 1/102 but you'd have to remove the corner caps as it represents a rebodied type. Finally the little fillets were added to the centre of the sides and the top door filled on the inside.

102 Body 003 F.JPG

LMS D2150 13T Open

LMS Clasp 1 F.JPG

LMS clasp brake time! I've been wanting to do this for a little while and at last progress has been sufficient in other more pressing areas to allow time to put together the test etch. The body is a Parkside steel ended open which although listed as a BR wagon was an LMS design that was perpetuated by BR so there is little work needed to backdate it. In this case only alteration was the removal of the fittings on the inside of the ends for the tarpaulin bar bracket and adding the reinforcing peice at the top of the ends. The etch for the chassis went together well and has all the proper brackets on the solebar. There are a couple of tweaks to the artwork to be checked which will be done on a test etch for another member of the LMS clasp brake family, the 'Derby' clasp brake chassis. This was a slightly different beast to the proper LMS clasp brake and was pricipally found under the Vanwides although it could also be found under some shock absorbing opens built at Derby in the late fifties. Swindon wasn't the only place where they went their own way from time to time! Buffers as usual are LMS, axleboxes and vac pipes are MJT. The MJT pipe castings have a very long tail hance my messing around with getting the brass vacuum pipe that goes under the body to fit into the castings. This also means the body is still seperable from the chassis for painting. The springs and hangers are Wizard castings which are good for the most part. The J hangers are a bit anemic though and could do with being a lot more triagular in profile instead of looking like they were originally made from a metal strip bent to shape (which they may well have been). They are as good as we've got at the moment though.

Justin

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Tor Giffard
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Tor Giffard » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:00 pm

Some nice work going on with the wagons Justin...I'll be in touch about some milk tank underframes soon.

All the best

Dave

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Noel
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Noel » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:34 pm

Truly works of art, Justin. I am disappointed though over the 10ft wb petrol tank chassis you were asked about earlier as this is a conspicuous lack in the 4mm wagon world at present.

I would like to ask about the vacuum pipe on the D2150 Highfit; the only photo I have [David Larkin's 'Wagons of the early British Railways era' p17] of a D2150 wagon built with vacuum brakes shows a vehicle with a bufferbeam mounted pipe. The photo is dated 1968, so possibly this may be a later change? Also, photographs suggest that the normal practice for the LMS, LNER and SR [the GWR did not use angled pipes] was for the top section to be vertical and more or less directly above the coupling hook. The location of the bend varied somewhat, but was below the upper fixing bracket, which was therefore horizontal. Was D2150 an exception to this, please?

Noel
Noel

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iak
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby iak » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:07 pm

More chassis tastiness to tempt the wagon nut - bravo I say!
The LMS type one looks the biz Justin.
The other has an attraction to mind.
Will the mineral types go with all the requisite Bachmann steel minerals mind?
I have some to deal with, the aim being to use them with some "Welched" Bachmann 7 & 8 plankers.
All power to your CAD mon :thumb
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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:36 pm

Tor Giffard wrote:Some nice work going on with the wagons Justin...I'll be in touch about some milk tank underframes soon.

Thanks Dave. I'll look forward to hearing from you.

Noel wrote:Truly works of art, Justin. I am disappointed though over the 10ft wb petrol tank chassis you were asked about earlier as this is a conspicuous lack in the 4mm wagon world at present.

I would like to ask about the vacuum pipe on the D2150 Highfit; the only photo I have [David Larkin's 'Wagons of the early British Railways era' p17] of a D2150 wagon built with vacuum brakes shows a vehicle with a bufferbeam mounted pipe. The photo is dated 1968, so possibly this may be a later change? Also, photographs suggest that the normal practice for the LMS, LNER and SR [the GWR did not use angled pipes] was for the top section to be vertical and more or less directly above the coupling hook. The location of the bend varied somewhat, but was below the upper fixing bracket, which was therefore horizontal. Was D2150 an exception to this, please?

Noel


Hi Noel,

I did say on the previous page that the petrol tank chassis were a possibility. Given the completely open nature of the underframe they would need some thinking about though and I really need to finish some of the things that I've started before I do that.

The D2150 wagon is based on a photo of M423401 taken in 1966 which is on page 84 of An Illustrated History of LMS wagons Volume 1. It has the upright type of vacuum pipe. There is a photo of another D2150, M423253, on the same page that also has this type which was taken at the time of construction. In fact all of the 5 plank opens pictured in that book that had the LMS clasp brake chassis had the upright type of pipe rather than those mounted to the headstock. This includes diagrams D1892, D2110 and of course D2150. You are quite correct that the top of the vacuum pipe should be vertical. On the two D2150s mentioned the pipe was vertical from the bracket upwards. I've just tweaked the ones on mine but given that the bracket on the MJT casting is too high I'm not sure how much difference it's made. I should perhaps have tried to find some other vacuum pipes but I had these in stock and I wanted to get it finished.

iak wrote:More chassis tastiness to tempt the wagon nut - bravo I say!
The LMS type one looks the biz Justin.
The other has an attraction to mind.
Will the mineral types go with all the requisite Bachmann steel minerals mind?
I have some to deal with, the aim being to use them with some "Welched" Bachmann 7 & 8 plankers.
All power to your CAD mon :thumb


Hi Iain,

I haven't actually got a Bachmann 16T mineral so I can't give you a definative answer. I did get a fairly close look at a Bachmann body a few months ago and the stanchion spacings seemed to be the same as the Parkside kit which was the primary concern. I didn't check width but I can't imagine it would be much different. To be absolutely sure of the fit the side support backets on the Bachmann body would have needed removing and I didn't want to take a file to someone elses model! :) You could have a go and report back? Or if someone wants to bring a Bacmann body to Scalefour North I'll have my built chassis there. The Bachmann moulding isn't bad at all, though the stanchions are a bit round for my liking, but it's a lot more expensive than a couple of sprues from Kirkaldy, especially when you want 20 of them.

Justin

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:14 pm

BR Diagram 1/479 30T Bogie Bolster E

Bogie Bolster E 02 F.JPG

So how this came about went something like this... I showed my bogie Strip Coil to someone at an exhibition who mentioned that the vacuum brake arrangement looked very similar to that under the BR bogie bolster E and would I be interested in doing something to upgrade the Lima model. Given that I model the South Wales scene in the mid-sixties I was going to need a bogie bolster E or two I agreed to do something after being assured that the Lima body wasn't bad at all... Of course it turned out that the brakegear was nothing like that under the Strip Coils and the etch did get a bit more involved than at first thought but what has been arrived at is hopefully a decent representation of the last of the steam era bogie bolsters to be built.

So the basis of the model is the old Lima body moulding which isn't bad and is dimensionally pretty accurate. The underframe and in particular the bogies are really poor but we've done something about that. The basis of the new underframe is a fold up etch that includes brake vees, queen posts and a jig to make constructing the trussing from 1.2mm brass angle a doddle. All the brake linkages are included as are levers and guards. Other bits that have been attended to are the solebar and headstock detailing, all of which has been replaced, and includes items such as lamp irons, coupling pockets and builders plates, etc (Lima having put them on the wrong end and some for unfathoable reason!). The securing rings have been replaced using phospher bronze wire loops with etched backplates (time consuming but they look good) and D 'links' have been added to the bolster posts. The bogies are Masokits plate compensated jobs with the sides reprofiled and secondary suspension added using tiny homemade coil springs in brass tube guides (I thought it might be fun...!) with cosmetic Cambrian Davis & Lloyd sideframes. I also repaced the edges of the bolsters with half round plastic section as there were unsightly and unprototypical gaps between the bolsters and the locating pockets. All that's needed is vacuum pipes to be added.

Justin

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iak
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby iak » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:27 pm

Well this is rather tasty.
Now how many of those auld Limas are upstairs???

:o :D :thumb
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Colin Parks
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Colin Parks » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:00 pm

Hi Justin,

Wow. Your etched brass chassis look more like the work of a jeweller than a modeller! I am aghast at the thought you are going to produce twenty mineral wagons to this standard - let alone all the other stock.

All the best,

Colin

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:07 pm

iak wrote:Well this is rather tasty.
Now how many of those auld Limas are upstairs???


Thanks Iain,
If you can't find any upstairs then they can be had second hand with a little patience! ;)

Colin Parks wrote:Wow. Your etched brass chassis look more like the work of a jeweller than a modeller! I am aghast at the thought you are going to produce twenty mineral wagons to this standard - let alone all the other stock.


Thanks Colin,
Most of the hard work is done though by the etching company I use. :) They are simpler than perhaps they first appear and once you know how they go together don't take too long, depending on how complicated the prototype. People spend far longer on locos, etc. You also don't have to spend time messing around adapting the chassis on kits or RTR models which is the kind of thing that causes me to loose a little interest in projects. You can just get on and build the etch without having to worry about carving up plastic solebars to get sprung W-Irons to fit, etc and hassle can be saved when painting as you can do the chassis seperately. 20 minerals is going to take a little time but mainly because of all the other lovely chassis I have in the pipeline! BR clasp braked plate wagons next. :)

Justin

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iak
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby iak » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:23 pm

Found one box of two bolster E's but as to the other two... :?

I think one can ken what will be next :D

Slàinte
Iain
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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:48 pm

iak wrote:Found one box of two bolster E's but as to the other two... :?

Perhaps they're hiding in an overgrown siding somewhere? :) I'm sure that's where most of the stuff I can't find is...

Justin

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Colin Parks
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Colin Parks » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:30 pm

Hi Justin,

I can see the point of starting afresh with a new underframe rather than bodging plastic ones. Faced with the prospect of converting a great number of 00 gauge stock, it is very tempting to follow your lead and just replace chassis as and when I get around to it.

Do you sell the chassis etches featured in building projects?

All the best,

Colin

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:17 pm

Hi Colin,

Yes all the chassis can be purchased. They can be found via Rumney Models. I will also be at Scalefour North in a few weeks and Scaleforum in September.

Justin

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Colin Parks
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Colin Parks » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:23 pm

Thanks Justin.

The chassis do look excellent. Alas, I am unable to travel at the moment, so will not see you range at those events. Of interest is the 17' 6' BR clasp braked chassis. I have twelve 00 gauge BR Banana vans which will eventually need such chassis. My humble bodging of the Parkside 12t Plywood sided van kits will not been shown on this forum!

All the bets,

Colin

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:08 pm

Well that took a while! Over a year ago I mentioned Plate wagons. Currently there are three on the go and this is the first of them to approach being finished:

IMG_2946.JPG

The wagon is of course from a Rumney Models test etch. It represents a BR diagram 1/431 vehicle that has been retrofitted with the BR clasp brake (it would have been unfitted when built). It has welded sides, riveted ends, three hinges per door, 2’0¼” Oleo buffers and roller bearings. It obviously needs a vacuum cylinder and pipes but I’m working on something for those (well something for the cylinder at least).

IMG_2950.JPG

It is interesting to compare these to the diagram 1/434 vehicles that were built in the late fifties with the BR clasp brake. Instead of taking exactly the same arrangement of vees, levers, etc the brakegear was set up by the position of the original symmetric vees. They were removed and then asymmetric vees fitted in their place using one of the sets of holes that were left in the solebar to rivet them on. If you look closely at solebars on the real thing you can see the other set of holes from the original vee. What this ultimately meant was that the brake shaft was in a different place, the links at one end were shorter and the brake levers were different lengths on each side (most wagons fitted with the BR clasp brake had levers that were the same on both sides).

I mentioned roller bearings earlier. These are interesting to use on sprung chassis as they are obviously difficult to slot for the bearing. My current thinking on them goes like this:

IMG_2969.JPG

The spring carriers are fitted with Exactoscale parallel bearings which have been ‘extended’ using a piece of 1.5mm x 1mm brass tube approximately 2mm long. Once tidied up the roller bearing casting has been superglued in place. You need to make sure that the top of the casting will clear the springs but a little work with a file takes care of that.

There are a few other ‘works in progress’ that might be of interest. The first is my quest for a decent BR Shocopen. Parkside make many very good body kits but, at least in my opinion, their BR Shocopen isn’t one of them. It’s not a million miles out and is certainly closer to the prototype than the Bachmann example with its odd corrugated ends but there’s something about it that just isn’t right. This is mainly centred on the door which is marginally too wide with detail that isn’t quite in the right place. The wrap around on the corrugated ends extends down too far as well and all of this contrives to produce a model that doesn’t really look like what it’s supposed to. Fortunately there is a very, very good kit in the Parkside range that can provide a starting point for a decent model, the BR corrugated ended open kit, PC02A. The real things were shortened version of these LMS derived prototypes so why not do the same with the model:

IMG_3016.JPG

The sides have been cut either side of the door and shortened. A 0.020” strip of plastic has been added along the bottom and then detailing added including new strapping and capping on the sides, rope cleats and a later type BR tarpaulin bar from a forthcoming Rumney Models kit. Not quite done but it’s getting there. It will be a lot 3082 diagram 1/056 wagon. These had the Derby clasp brake chassis with the springs mounted in the centre. Fortunately South Wales didn’t seem to be awash with these things so I don’t need too many more, Shocvans are a different matter...

Another BR open also lurks around the workbench. A diagram 1/039 wagon from the Parkside PC02A kit:

IMG_3032.JPG

New capping has been added and early BR type tarpaulin bars fitted. Despite their fragile looks the brackets and hoop on the tarpaulin bar are pretty sturdy with the both pinned into jig drilled holes in the end. The bar does swing from side to side but it doesn’t lock into the small notch on top of the hoop! This will go on a Morton brake chassis.

Finally there is a grounded body to be seen:

IMG_3003.JPG

A BR 1/801 fish van. The sides and ends are made up of three layers of etch that are pinned together whilst still on the fret and then soldered in place. The frame is then removed and then the sides and ends folded up to form the body. The 2mm guys have some great ideas! The roof is a 3D print that will form a master for a resin cast version. Obviously there is a chassis still to be built for this…

Hopefully the next update will be in less than 17 months time!

Justin

Crepello
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Crepello » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:58 pm

jjnewitt wrote:A BR 1/801 fish van.

So many options from the trade already for this genus, and none up to scratch?

BTW, any chance you'll turn your hand to the SR 4-wheeled NPCS (PMV/BY/CCT) family?

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:00 pm

Very nice and good to see them in the flesh at Wells.
Dogfish. Go on. You know you want to... :D
I must have prepped a good few people at Wells too!

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Lord Colnago
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Lord Colnago » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:04 pm

Hi Justin,

Lovely stuff as usual and nice to see that my hard-earned will be going to a good home at Scaleforum. Can't wait.

John.
The second best priest

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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:27 pm

Crepello wrote:
jjnewitt wrote:A BR 1/801 fish van.

So many options from the trade already for this genus, and none up to scratch?

BTW, any chance you'll turn your hand to the SR 4-wheeled NPCS (PMV/BY/CCT) family?


There aren't any options from the trade for this particular variety of fish van. As far as I'm aware there has never been a model in 4mm scale of a BR 1/801 fish van they have all been of the similar but different LNER 214 or BR 1/800 type. Whilst similar dimensionally the bodywork was different as was the brakegear.

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iak
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby iak » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:08 pm

Whooooosh. :thumb
Very tasty beasties Judtin, as ever.
Nice work on the 1/801 mind, the fact that they ended up as parcels stock makes them very useful. 8-)
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

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But I may choose to serve perfection....
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jjnewitt
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby jjnewitt » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:15 pm

Whilst most of my recent wagon output has been virtual (more of that in a minute) there have been a couple of currently noteworthy items that have seen the sharp end of a file.

Firstly my desire to add a little variety to what is already available from the trade has led me to draw up a set of etches to backdate the Parkside BR steel ended open wagon (kit PC02A) to the LMS 10’ wheelbase wooden ended opens (Diagram 1892, 2072 and 2094). The sides from this Parkside kit are excellent and certainly couldn’t be bettered by etching. A frame with ends and ironwork has been designed to make use the plastic sides. I’m a bit surprised that someone hasn’t made a decent fist of covering this particular family especially as there were just over 16500 of them built over the three diagrams (unless of course there is a kit out there that I’m unaware of). This is going to be a D.2094 vehicle and will have a tarpaulin bar added shortly.

LMS.JPG

Also my test etch 21T hopper chassis has gained most of a body. The Parkside body goes together reasonably well though care is needed in places and a spot of filler will be required. This will be a 1/146 vacuum braked (obviously) example.

146 Hopper VB.JPG

The vacuum cylinder you can see is a whitemetal casting that has been made from some exquisite masters produced by the very talented Morgan Gilbert. Both 18” and 21” cylinders have been catered for and they are specifically designed to use etched brackets. These will be available in the not too distant future.

Vac 1.JPG

Another exciting project is a fully sprung freight bogie. This is the first test etch for the GWR standard type.

IMG_3635 - H.JPG

It needs a bit of tweaking but it’s going in the right direction. The intention is to do some 3D printed journals and bolster springs to go with them which leads me back to the virtual stuff that I mentioned earlier.

I have recently been undertaking a 3D CAD course which was assessed by a project. This of course had to be something railway related (!) and so I chose to do a 12T GWR plywood van. The intention is to do an etched kit with resin cast roof from the artwork produced for this project along the lines of the fish van seen earlier (which is slowly getting there). The plywood GWR Shocvan is almost certain to follow this.

Image 7.jpg

Image 6.jpg

Other drawings have encompassed milk tank saddles for GWR sloping tank diagrams (O.57 & O.60), corrugated ends for Shochood Bs, bolsters for bogie bolster Cs, drain valves for milk tanks and some 5 and 6 leaf wagon springs. Axleboxes to follow for the last two items, particularly the BR 2 part oil types!

BBC Bolster.jpg

Milk Tank Drain Valve 1.jpg

6 Leaf Wagon Spring.jpg

Happy new year,
Justin

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Tor Giffard
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Re: JJNewitt's Wonderful World of Wagons

Postby Tor Giffard » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:39 pm

....and a Happy New Year to you too Justin....some rather tasty morsels in the pipeline....those vac cyls in particular.

Best regards

Dave


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