Milk Tank Madness

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jjnewitt
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:33 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:
A wagon thread would be a good idea, not nearly enough stuff on them in the forum.

We already have 81 topics in the 'wagons' section, but you preferred to use 'on my workbench', surely we don't need a third place to discuss wagons :)
Keith

As I said not nearly enough stuff on wagons. :) The same could be said for plenty of other areas of the forum.

I'm not sure I understand about a 'third' place to discuss wagons. I thought it would be good to have all my bits in one place rather than scattered around the forum and update them from. If the moderators feel that something of mine is in the wrong place then they can of course move it to somewhere they feel more appropriate.

Justin

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jim s-w
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby jim s-w » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:26 pm

Hi Justin

Do you not have any arrangements for the centre w-irons to move sideways? (sorry if I've missed it)

Cheers

Jim

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:50 pm

I'm not sure I understand about a 'third' place to discuss wagons.

Well, you said,
A wagon thread would be a good idea,

Seeing as we have a whole subforum of wagon threads, as well as the workbenches, I took it that the good idea was to have another place. :)
The amount of stuff is up to the members. You are doing more than your share and I have no problem with your putting it in your workbench, its great stuff.
Regards
Keith

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:55 pm

Do you not have any arrangements for the centre w-irons to move sideways?
I doubt its needed at that wheelbase, if you do need a bit for very tight curves it would be better to mount the wheels on a 2mm tube and let it slide on an Exactoscale 1mm axle, then there is no problem trying to make W-irons that move.
Regards
Keith

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jjnewitt
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:39 pm

jim s-w wrote:Hi Justin

Do you not have any arrangements for the centre w-irons to move sideways? (sorry if I've missed it)

Cheers

Jim

Hi Jim. The W-irons are rigid. The wheelbase is quite short at 13' and there is scope within the etched carriers to allow for 0.25mm sideplay within the bearing on the centre axle (by half etching the carrier around the bearing). I know this is not the greatest idea with pinpoint bearings (but wonder how much actual axle sideplay there is in most wagons with pinpoint bearings?) but a wagon so arranged will quite happily negotiate a 1m radius curve wth no gauge widening. Keith's idea with regard to Exactoscale parallel axles is much better and now that I've arranged things so you can drop the wheels and axles out without bending the W-Irons back makes it a much more feasable proposition. I shall get hold of some parallel bearings and axles as soon as C&L get stocks of waisted pinpoints in (I need some and don't want to pay postage twice!) and have a play. It would also be interesting to see what kind of radius one will manage without any sideways movement in the axles.

grovenor-2685 wrote:
I'm not sure I understand about a 'third' place to discuss wagons.

Well, you said,
A wagon thread would be a good idea,

Seeing as we have a whole subforum of wagon threads, as well as the workbenches, I took it that the good idea was to have another place. :)
The amount of stuff is up to the members. You are doing more than your share and I have no problem with your putting it in your workbench, its great stuff.
Regards
Keith

Ahh. My poor use of English I think. By thread I meant topic (in one of the two appropriate places of course) rather than another section. But you can rename the forum P4 Wagons Are Us and create a great big section for them all if you want, I wont mind! Others might object though. :D

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:43 pm

Keith's idea with regard to Exactoscale parallel axles is much better
Actually Bill B was first with this so far as I know, I have it on my list to try but haven't yet.
It was not meant to refer to the parallel axles although that is another alternative. The suggestion is actually to use the 1mm pinpoint axles with the wheels on a 2mm tube that is a sliding fit so that the wheels can move sideways without the pinpoints moving.
If you do use the parallel axles I think you need longer ones than exactoscale supply, as they come there is very little scope for sideplay.
Regards
Keith

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jjnewitt
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby jjnewitt » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:33 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:
The suggestion is actually to use the 1mm pinpoint axles with the wheels on a 2mm tube that is a sliding fit so that the wheels can move sideways without the pinpoints moving.
If you do use the parallel axles I think you need longer ones than exactoscale supply, as they come there is very little scope for sideplay.


Ah I see. That is an interesting idea. I'll have to give that a try as well. I'll have to see what I've got in the way of reasonably well engineered 2 x 1 mm tubing. I had read somewhere that there wasn't much length in the Exactoscale parallel axles. Sideplay doesn't need to be much, 0.25mm in total will be enough to see the chassis traverse a 1m raduis curve. Some interesting ideas to look into.

Justin

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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby billbedford » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:20 am

There are an number of model aircraft sites selling 1mm steel rod at less than £1 per metre. So you could cut your own axles.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

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jjnewitt
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby jjnewitt » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:11 pm

Thanks for the tip Bill. I'll look into it. At 25mm the Exactoscale ones don't look as if they'll give you much room to work with.

Justin

Clive Impey
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby Clive Impey » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:38 am

Eileen's Emporium sell 1mm dia silver steel and 2mm dia brass tubing with a 1mm bore. The steel wire available from model aircraft shops will probably be hardened wire - silver steel will be much easier to cut and file.

Clive

pumapilot
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby pumapilot » Wed May 29, 2013 2:27 pm

Brilliant! Just what I've been looking for. Now my first half-built GWR tank can be finished with a proper sprung chassis. Will the "Rumney Models" announcement be made in Scalefour News, MRJ or other magazine, any time soon? Thanks.

Tony Wickes

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jjnewitt
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby jjnewitt » Thu May 30, 2013 6:36 pm

Hi Tony,

In a very low key way the Rumney Models annoncement is going to be made here and now. For (almost) all your milk tank modelling needs:

www.rumneymodels.co.uk

Not sure about non-web based annoncements yet as I've been busy enough testing etches and putting together the website.

In other news a new milk tank has emerged for the work bench. This is a GWR O.58 twin tank example which was built for Cow & Gate but as far as I'm concerned is a Unigate vehicle. She uses one of the longer 21'6" GWR chassis from my etches as the basis with proper GWR lever brakegear,my own etched clasp brakes and yolks, the long and short ladders that feaured a few posts ago, bouncy roller bearings and a new smaller in diameter and longer tank barrel made from circular etched formers and 0.005" brass sheet (just like a steam loco boiler!) as well as adapted David Geen bits. These were originally fitted with walkways but by the Seventies these had been removed. I'm not sure if they would have been fitted to the O.58s around my 1965 period as all the photos I've found were either taken when they were new or in the Seventies! It will be easier to fit them if any eveidence comes to light though rather than try and remove them. Quite pleased with this one:

GWR O.58 - F.JPG
GWR O.58 - F.JPG (50.36 KiB) Viewed 6038 times

A closer picture of the lever brakes and lifting links etc:
GWR O.58 Lever Brakes - F.JPG
GWR O.58 Lever Brakes - F.JPG (45 KiB) Viewed 6038 times

Rolling your own:
GWR O.58 Tank - F.JPG
GWR O.58 Tank - F.JPG (50.41 KiB) Viewed 6038 times

For those that are interested this is what the underneath of a lever brake GWR underframe looks like:
GWR O.58 Underframe - F.JPG
GWR O.58 Underframe - F.JPG (66.19 KiB) Viewed 6038 times

An SR diagram 3157 complete with platforms is next on the list. It might take a while though as I seem to have a lot of etches for it. There will be even less of the David Geen kit left with that one than there is with the O.58!

Justin

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jjnewitt
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby jjnewitt » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:51 am

It's nice to finally have some more milk tank news. Yesterday I mentioned in a place near to here something about United Dairies/Unigate milk tank plates that I was having etched; well they arrived this morning and look pretty good:

United Dairies.JPG

United Dairies 2.JPG

Unigate.JPG

These were something I’d always wanted to try and do and I was inspired to get on and sort them out by a Rumney Models customer who has actually painted his David Geen/Rumney Models milk tanks. They turned into a bit of a labour of love. Research was bit of a challenge and there was a complete redraw of the artwork as much was well under what could be reliably etched. A lot of thanks goes to Brian Hanson of Shawplan who was really helpful giving advice on the artwork.

There are 4mm and 7mm scale plates with both United Dairies and Unigate styles as well as a couple of S scale ones. Next job is to fill in the half etched areas with black paint. I might have to try and finish painting my four Unigate milk tanks which are still in primer!

Justin

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jjnewitt
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby jjnewitt » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:28 pm

Some recent progress on an old project thanks to the wonders of modern technology and traditional lost wax casting.

SR Milk Tank Progress.JPG

The etches for this have been around for at least 3 1/2 years looking at my last post but one. The stubling block was always the springs and axleboxes which are very distinctive on the SR milk tanks. Thanks to some 3D printed masters these lovely brass castings arrived at the weekend. Plenty of work left to do on this.

Justin

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iak
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby iak » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:09 pm

And very nice too Justin...
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby Mike Garwood » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:43 am

Very nice, one question : did the middle axle have a 'bump guard' or was it just the outer axles? Curious that's all.

Mike

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jjnewitt
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Re: Milk Tank Madness

Postby jjnewitt » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:16 am

Thanks Iain.

Hi Mike. There were no spring stops on the centre axle of the SR milk tanks at least as far as all the pictures and drawings I have show. This is one of those curious details that varied depending on who built the milk tanks. The GWR and LNER had stops on all three axles, the SR just the outer ones and the LMS appear not to have fitted any to any axle. It always fascinates me how many differences, some little like this and some bigger, there were between the various companies takes on what amounts to the same basic design.

Justin


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