Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

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jim s-w
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jim s-w » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:17 am

Hi justin

Are you going to fix the cab side windows on the 47? (they are too shallow). Bachmann fixed it themselves on the later models.

Cheers

Jim

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:32 pm

Hi Jim,

I'm not completely sure to be honest. They would certainly look better if they were increased in height a tad. I think the engine compartment windows are also a bit lacking in height. I had thought about using the Heljan Lazerglaze throughout as the Heljan windows do look better but there's only about the width of the window frame difference in height. Opening out the windows wouldn't be much of a problem but I didn't fancy redoing all those window frames after having removed the top off of all of them. It's much easier with the windscreens when someone's done a nice etch for you! :) I'll leave her in primer for a while and see how much it bothers me. Which means I'll probably end up attacking them on a wet wednesday afternoon in november!

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Jonathan Hughes
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Jonathan Hughes » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:12 pm

jjnewitt wrote:After my 16 ton diversion it's back to the diesels. Some class 14 and 47 detailing for those interested.

Some work has been done on the face of the class 47. The Bachmann model doesn't quite capture the look of the prototype to me. I always think the real thing looks worried or almost startled at times whereas the Bachmann offering looks a bit mean. Shawplan window frames have been added as have new eyebrows and a beefed up rain stip and the handrails have been lowered slightly. The front windows apertures were very carefully opened out so that Lazerglazing was a snug fit before the etched frames were glued on. I've used the cab windows intended for the Heljan model as the ones for the Bachmann model are smaller than the windows. When I spoke to Brain from Shawplan a month or so ago we discussed this and he was minded to produce some cab windows specifically for the etched frames which would be good. It gets expensive needing two lots of Lazerglaze for one loco. The rainstrips were then beefed up using strips cut from 0.010" plasticard and eyebrows made from very thin stips of 0.005" plasticard added last. This Class 47 is destined to become D1738 which was a Brush built engine and so has continuous eyebrows, the Crewe built machines had individual ones for each window. I can't claim any originality for this work as it's all been done before! If anyone hasn't seen Jon020's (Jonathan Hughes) work then have a look at his RMweb blog. Lots of good stuff. By the time he's finished with those springs on the Class 47 bogies though he might as well have made them work for a living! :)
Class 47 1.JPG

Class 47 2.JPG

An unapologetic close up of those lovely Shawplan grills.
Class 47 3.JPG

]

Hi Justin, Thanks for the mention... and for a slight overtaking manoeuvre I think. My project's been parked for a while whilst I work out what to do with the bogies. I've Ian P's sprung bogie kit but my focus is really on visual impact rather than running (ducks in case something gets hurled at him) and I've been struggling with replacing the cosmetic springs but now think I might have solved this issue... although it's a real fiddle. I've not worked out how to add much here yet, so I'll be posting an update on RMW when I have something to really show. I think my problem is that I took lots of bogie photos and am now trying to reproduce as much as poss in 4mm... I need to step back a bit I think! I still need to work out how to represent the brake actuating linkages which are not there at all on the Bachmann bogie... but too heavily moulded on the Heljan one.
Once that's all done, it will probably be back to the body to hack out the rad shutters and replace with some strip (brass?) to model them open... and replace the moulded roof panel handrails. Then it's the fuel tanks, buffers, reshaping bufferbeam shrouds and, er, I think that's it... until Mike or Brian tell me I've missed something else :?
Anyway, thanks for the plug.
Must build myself a small plank to place these on... too much to do, too little time etc etc etc

Oh... and yes the windscreens are a bit of a one aren't they... glad you got Brian thinking that way; I'll mention it next time I run into him - which will either be S4m or the week before sampling 5 real 55s on the ELR .... should be fun!

Jon

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:32 pm

Just wait until you tackle a Class 40 or three.....*kof*
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jim s-w
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jim s-w » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:46 pm

Wait to see what the all new bachmann one is like first though!

Cheers

Jim

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:12 pm

Jon020 wrote:]
Hi Justin, Thanks for the mention... and for a slight overtaking manoeuvre I think. My project's been parked for a while whilst I work out what to do with the bogies. I've Ian P's sprung bogie kit but my focus is really on visual impact rather than running (ducks in case something gets hurled at him) and I've been struggling with replacing the cosmetic springs but now think I might have solved this issue... although it's a real fiddle. I've not worked out how to add much here yet, so I'll be posting an update on RMW when I have something to really show. I think my problem is that I took lots of bogie photos and am now trying to reproduce as much as poss in 4mm... I need to step back a bit I think! I still need to work out how to represent the brake actuating linkages which are not there at all on the Bachmann bogie... but too heavily moulded on the Heljan one.
Once that's all done, it will probably be back to the body to hack out the rad shutters and replace with some strip (brass?) to model them open... and replace the moulded roof panel handrails. Then it's the fuel tanks, buffers, reshaping bufferbeam shrouds and, er, I think that's it... until Mike or Brian tell me I've missed something else :?
Anyway, thanks for the plug.
Must build myself a small plank to place these on... too much to do, too little time etc etc etc

Oh... and yes the windscreens are a bit of a one aren't they... glad you got Brian thinking that way; I'll mention it next time I run into him - which will either be S4m or the week before sampling 5 real 55s on the ELR .... should be fun!

Jon


Hi Jon, It's difficult at times to know when to stop with these things. I think sometimes it's best to follow JSW's mantra and model what you see but try not to see too much!! Keep going though as your Class 47 will be lovely when it's finished. I'll have to get around to finishing my pair at some point though that wont be for a little while.

Definately mention to Brian about the windscreens to suit his etches when you see him. I'll badger him about it at Scaleforum. Perhaps while he's at it Brian can come up with some Lazerglaze for scale side windows and some stainless steel etched frames to suit! Those Bachmann ones seem to be getting smaller on mine the more I look at them!

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jim s-w
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jim s-w » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:14 pm

Hi Chaps

Everone is different so therefor their focus is (should be) too, as I get deeper into my project the locos (well the trains themselves actually) seem to get less and less important and are just another bit of the scene. I am under no illusions that there will always be someone who has done an infinately better class (insert choice here) than will be on my layout.

Keep up the good work

Jim

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:56 pm

jjnewitt wrote:.... difficult at times to know when to stop with these things......


Who said anything about stopping :?: :shock:
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:26 am

You've got to draw the line at some point when it comes to detailing surely or you could be at it forever? I suppose it depends on what you want to ultimately achieve though and that most precious of commodity, time. Someday I want a working trainset :D and despite the lengths I've gone to at times I get to stages where I'm happy to accept some comprimises in order to try and get things somewhere near finished. There are things that could be better with everything I've made but they are good enough. That doesn't mean that you stop trying to improve but there are only so many hours in a day. The litmus test for me is whether something can sit comfortably next to one of these and if I feel it can then it's time to stop.
Manor 1.JPG
Manor 1.JPG (69.76 KiB) Viewed 7538 times

Despite how good these types of kit are there are still areas where they could be improved and detailed further if you wanted to but they take long enough as it is! If all you wanted was the ultimate P4 Manor then perhaps you would replace the driving wheel springs with something more three dimensional, do something about the lack of vaccum cylinder, make a new boiler with thinner boiler bands on... or perhaps just talk to Tom Mallard and part with a lot of money! Inevitalbly there are going to be some compromises with detail given the scale we are working in, how much time you want to spend reducing those compromises is up to you but if you don't stop at some point (wherever you decide that point is) you'll never stop. ;)

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Mike Garwood » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:02 am

What you can't see from Justin's photo of his Manor is that it is tender driven, and runs beautifully, very smooth. It's all sprung too - of course! Can't wait to see it finished...

Mike

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:58 pm

Mike Garwood wrote:What you can't see from Justin's photo of his Manor is that it is tender driven....


....but I can see what appears to be a hole for a driveshaft!
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Paul Hutfield
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Paul Hutfield » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:21 am

Horsetan wrote:
Mike Garwood wrote:What you can't see from Justin's photo of his Manor is that it is tender driven....


....but I can see what appears to be a hole for a driveshaft!


Nah, that's just the cut out for the fire hole door Ivan!! ;)

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Jonathan Hughes
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Jonathan Hughes » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:22 pm

Hi Justin. Bogie work continuing on my 47 although I'm sticking with unsprung for now. Thanks for the vote of confidence... I want to get one bogie detailed and see how far to take it... and then do the other one. A little more work on the body will follow. I've just read in the mag that you're exhibiting (workbench?) at Scaleforum; I'll make sure I pop by and say Hi!
Jon

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:41 pm

Ian P. will be trading too.

I still don't know if I'll make it this year.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

rule55
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby rule55 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:32 pm

jjnewitt wrote:Despite how good these types of kit are there are still areas where they could be improved and detailed further if you wanted to but they take long enough as it is! If all you wanted was the ultimate P4 Manor then perhaps you would replace the driving wheel springs with something more three dimensional, do something about the lack of vaccum cylinder,)


Justin, That's a fine looking loco. Interesting you should mention the vacuum cylinder - I was at the SVR just over a month ago and took the photograph below.

Manor vac cylinder.jpg


It is fairly prominent when you see it from above but, as you say, that line has to be drawn somewhere.

Keep up the good work - it's very inspirational.

Tony

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:26 pm

Jon020 wrote:Hi Justin. Bogie work continuing on my 47 although I'm sticking with unsprung for now. Thanks for the vote of confidence... I want to get one bogie detailed and see how far to take it... and then do the other one. A little more work on the body will follow. I've just read in the mag that you're exhibiting (workbench?) at Scaleforum; I'll make sure I pop by and say Hi!
Jon

Hi Jon. I'm doing a demo extolling the virtues of sprung diesel bogies or something like that. I'll look forward to seeing you at Scaleforum in a few weeks. You should bring your P4 Deltic to Scaleforum and put it in the showcase, it looks quite lovely.

Horsetan wrote:Ian P. will be trading too.
I still don't know if I'll make it this year.

Go on you know you want to really Ivan. ;)

rule55 wrote:
Justin, That's a fine looking loco. Interesting you should mention the vacuum cylinder - I was at the SVR just over a month ago and took the photograph below.
It is fairly prominent when you see it from above but, as you say, that line has to be drawn somewhere.
Keep up the good work - it's very inspirational.
Tony

Hi Tony. I was quite suprised just how prominent they were on the mixed traffic 4-6-0s when I went to Didcot last year. I'm a little suprised that a casting or just an etched top that slotted into the chassis frames wasn't included in the kit, particularly given the angles that we mostly view these things. Thanks for the kind comments. I shall try!

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Mike Garwood » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:54 pm

Horsetan wrote:
Ian P. will be trading too.
I still don't know if I'll make it this year.

Go on you know you want to really Ivan.


You might just regret that invitation, especially on Sunday :D

50022
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby 50022 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:53 pm

Just delurking to say that I've been following this thread with great interest. Alas, no fully sprung diesels have yet been spotted on Western Road Diesel Depot, but I've been informed that the Depot Manager over the weekend of Scaleforum will be welcoming visiting locos (both sprung or otherwise).

Mike

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:11 pm

Hi Mike,

Perhaps we'll have to change that at some point. :) Most of them though will be wearing a little know experimental Rail Grey livery applied to a number of Canton locos around autumn 1964. I had hoped to have most of them in green but issues with primers, paint and time have conspired against me! No problems with the interesting (sprung) bits though. At least I've just about managed to get the Teddy Bear up and running with it's new rods. Hopefully it will behave itself.

I'll look forward to seeing Western Road. I think I saw it at Railwells a while ago though I didn't have much time to have a good look.

See you in a week or so.

Justin

Many appogogies 50022. I have no idea where I got Mark from! :?
Last edited by jjnewitt on Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Mike Garwood » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:06 pm

Just delurking to say that I've been following this thread with great interest. Alas, no fully sprung diesels have yet been spotted on Western Road Diesel Depot, but I've been informed that the Depot Manager over the weekend of Scaleforum will be welcoming visiting locos (both sprung or otherwise).


Hi Mike

Does this mean I can bring my tame class 52 to play? Do you have a catchers mit for the end of the layout? Wicket keepers gloves at a push?

Looking forward to seeing WRd again and you.

cheers

Mike

50022
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby 50022 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:56 pm

Hi Mike

Looking forward to seeing you and your visiting loco. Gloves? You just have to drive very carefully :shock: :D

Mike

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:14 pm

Mike Garwood wrote:Does this mean I can bring my tame class 52 to play? Do you have a catchers mit for the end of the layout? Wicket keepers gloves at a push?


Is this a model of the experimental nitrous fitted Western? 0 to 100 in about 5 seconds. Or perhaps you've managed to push the boudaries of physics and put together a frictionless mechanism so that the thing takes 50 feet to stop? :D

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:30 pm

^
Bevel gears and ball-races........ ;)
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Will L
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Will L » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:39 pm

Horsetan wrote:^
Bevel gears and ball-races........ ;)


.. and a b*****y great flywheel :twisted:

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Mike Garwood » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:32 am

All will be revealed...if I can find the damn thing, working on 9 coaches, 3 engines and 2 vans all at the same time means the study is a shambles, hopefully it's here some where - unless it's out/escaped on another unsuspecting P4 layout. All I'll say is it has an Australian motor, untamed, will take B8 point work at a scale 90 mph +, whilst pulling 13. Frequently the coaches come off but the engine never has, even flat out and I have video evidence. It's nickname is Hammy and if you've seen the film 'Over the hedge' you'll know why.

Mike


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