Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:04 pm

Mike Garwood wrote:...if I can find the damn thing...
...unless it's out/escaped on another unsuspecting P4 layout...
...Australian motor...
...Frequently the coaches come off...


Doesn't sound very tame to me! :D

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:24 pm

Prep work for this weekend is drawing to it's conclusion, which means putting things back together! The only thing that really looks like it should do is the Teddy Bear. I managed to get the coupling rods sorted out (two of the holes were out of alignment) and she works. The cab has been repainted and looks much better for it. Buffer beams have been filled and painted. I'm having issues with getting the cab and bonets to sit down properly on the body though. That'll teach me to take it all to bits, too many wires to put back! It's quite nice to see it back in one peice. There's still lots to do but it's beginning to look like a Class 14. It has since lost it's numbers as they managed to get damaged messing around with the cab but I've got spares. I had intended to varnish it but the weather changed and I really don't want an orange peel cab. The Heljan paintwork does need glossing up but it's going to have to wait.
Teddy Bear 1.JPG
Teddy Bear 1.JPG (57.67 KiB) Viewed 8924 times

BR Rail Grey.JPG
BR Rail Grey.JPG (43.3 KiB) Viewed 8924 times

BR experimantal Rail Grey! It's a shame that I couldn't get them in green but things have conspired against me. Still they look quite tidy in the primer and the bogies are the interesting bits anyway. The Hymek displays the headcode for the 10.45 am Kennsington milk empties which of course needs some lovely 6 wheeled milk tanks so here's one I've recently put the finishing touches to:
GWR milk tank.JPG
GWR milk tank.JPG (57.35 KiB) Viewed 8924 times

It's a Dean-Churchward braked David Geen kit built to diagram O.42 (though this may change as I'm not sure Express Daries had any interests in South Wales?). It's sprung (suprise) using modified Masokits BR plate W-Irons and has a scratchbuilt brass spine in place of the whitemetal casting in the kit. The brakegear was an exercise in headscratching but went together well once I'd figured it out. Lovely kit though of a wonderful prototype. I shall be relieving Mr Geen of some more of them on the weekend.

For those who are attending Scaleforum please stop by the demo stand and say hi. I can assure you I don't bite though with all the springs around I might bounce. :)

Justin

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:37 pm

Reminds me of Great Southern Railway grey. Strangely appropriate now that I'm having a go at Irish broad gauge.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:08 pm

Horsetan wrote:Reminds me of Great Southern Railway grey. Strangely appropriate now that I'm having a go at Irish broad gauge.

Hlafords grey primer in a tin through an airbrush, a very ghostly livery! Sprung broad gauge P4 diesels now there's a nice thought. That two mil of extra room between the frames would be very welcome!

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:26 pm

jjnewitt wrote:
Horsetan wrote:Reminds me of Great Southern Railway grey. Strangely appropriate now that I'm having a go at Irish broad gauge.

Hlafords grey primer in a tin through an airbrush, a very ghostly livery! Sprung broad gauge P4 diesels now there's a nice thought. That two mil of extra room between the frames would be very welcome!


Get yourself off the ground with an Irish diesel from Murphy Models ;)
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:19 pm

A very belated thanks to everyone who stopped by the demo stand at Scaleforum, is it really a month ago!? My voice has finally recovered from all the talking I did. It was great to be able to meet so may people and put some faces to avatars.

The sprung diesels haven't come out of their transport box but that doesn't mean that nothing has been happening. As the result of a conversation with Robin Whittle I spoke to the nice Mr Chris Gibbons of High Level about the possibility of getting some skinny versions of his 2mm bore Miniblox done for use in the diesel bogies. Here's the end result:
High Level Bearings 2.JPG
High Level Bearings 2.JPG (43.75 KiB) Viewed 8715 times

It was always a bit of a pain having to thin the standard High Level (and before that Exactoscale) 2mm bearings down in order to be able to fit the RTR drivetrains in between. Now there's almost no filing involved at all. A simple 0.010" etched carrier that fits on the rear boss will provide the spring wire bearing point. I'm not sure if Chris is planning on stocking them as a standard item, I forgot to ask when I rang him up to give him my card details.

As a result of this sucess I've redrawn the class 37 bogies (again) to try and incorperate a hornguide assembly on the bogie itself and one or two other labour saving mods. I didn't get any of High Level's rather nice fold up hornguides with the bearings as I wanted to try and do something on the bogie etch and the batch of bearings cost enough! These should be off to PPD later this week for a test etch to be done. Once I'm happy with it I can send off drawings for a few other types of diesel bogie including Warship, Hymek, class 47 and Peak (once I figured out the best way of doing the pony truck). Too many moments of ebay weakness recently! Also off to PPD will be test etches for a sprung undeframe to fit the David Geen LMS and GWR milk tanks and some 1/8" ballrace springing units (once Mr Garwood has finished losing drawings and is done with the doing the CAD work :) ) for a particularly mad project. More on these will appear elsewhere on the forum in due course. At some point I need to find time to move house as well!

For those who purchased etches from me earlier in the year I'll be in touch once I've got the spring carriers done to offer a bearing exchange service so you too can save yourself some filing and also messing around with bits of brass L section for spring bearers.

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Mike Garwood » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:32 pm

once Mr Garwood has finished losing drawings


Not lost, merely placed in a difficult place to find...for safe keeping

Mike

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jim s-w
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jim s-w » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:34 pm

Hi justin

If you come up with a better way of doing the peak pony truck I can see a market for them on thier own

Cheers

Jim
Last edited by jim s-w on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:46 pm

Hi Jim,

That's a very good idea. My thoughts were leaning towards a sprung self weighted pony truck so it could just be a case of catering for different pivot points. Another advantage of doing it seperately would be that I could use 0.25mm material for it instead of the 0.4 used on the bogie. That would be helpful. I'll give it some thought.

Justin

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barrowroad
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby barrowroad » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:18 pm

Hi Justin,

Excellent news about the spacesaver 2mm bearings from Chris - are they a special order for you or is he putting them on general sale?

Regards,
Robin

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:58 pm

The Hymek bogie is good news. The 46/Peak bogie may also have applications under Class 40s of which I seem to have accumulated more than I intended....
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:33 pm

barrowroad wrote:Excellent news about the spacesaver 2mm bearings from Chris - are they a special order for you or is he putting them on general sale?

Hi Robin.

The batch I got was a special order to my specifications. Basically I told Chris I wanted them to be a certain length and then a big bag of them dropped through the door. I'm not sure if he's going to stock them alongside the other types. I meant to ask when I spoke to him to pay up but we ended up taking about drivetrains for sprung diesel bogies and I forgot to ask. He seemed quite amenable to the idea of doing them for me so perhaps he could be persuaded if he hasn't got some already.

Horsetan wrote:The Hymek bogie is good news. The 46/Peak bogie may also have applications under Class 40s of which I seem to have accumulated more than I intended....


I'm sure the Peak bogie when done would easily fit the class 40. I'd be suprised if, as far as the Bachmann internals are concerned, there was any difference at all.

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:25 am

They are both good news. ;) :thumb
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:17 pm

Haven't updated this for a while, mainly because I've had my head burried in autoCAD, but finaly I've something to write about. Sprung bogies for a Peak! :) These made it to Cardiff on trains from Leeds and Newcastle so I've got an excuse for one and the addition of the pony truck keeps things interesting.

I done some work on the hornblock arrangement in light of the High Level skinny Miniblox. This includes an etch for spring carriers that fits onto the back of the bearing. Nothing revoutionary about it at all, simply a plate with a fold out ledge for the spring wire to rest on. I dislike carriers having holes through which the wire is fed as you have to remove the springs every time you want to take the wheels out and this quickly becomes a pain. There are two lengths for the carrier to cater for the different heights needed. The unwanted section can be cut off once soldered on.
Peak Bogies 1.JPG
Peak Bogies 1.JPG (42.01 KiB) Viewed 8120 times

I've been playing around with making the hornguide arrangement part of the bogie etch. This involves two slots of differing width to act on different parts of the bearing. This then fold overs and get soldered together much like the High Level hornguides. The idea works well but I still like a bit more of a bearing surface so I've taken to soldering on extra peices of brass either side of the bearing.
Peak Bogies 2.JPG
Peak Bogies 2.JPG (40.35 KiB) Viewed 8120 times

The whole assembly is designed to fit into the Bachmann sideframe moulding. The pivot point for the pony truck is retained to make life easier. I noticed when I ordered from Eileen's recently that they've stopped doing my favourite 28 SWG phospher broze wire for the coil springs so I had a look at what else they had by the way of coiled wire. The springs for this are 28 SWG soft brass wire and make up into lovely little coil springs. They are a little softer than the phospher bronze ones which means that a thicker gauge of wire could be used in instances where the springs can be seen or indeed the 28 SWG could be used for shorter length springs.
Peak Bogies 3.JPG
Peak Bogies 3.JPG (38.89 KiB) Viewed 8120 times

The pony truck is very much a work in progress. This is the first one I've actually tackled. The steam locos I've had a go at either have bogies or nothing. It's designed to be self weighted and a direct replacement for the Bachamann thing. I could only weight it to 15g so the springs don't deflect as much as I'd like but then it's not like the pony truck is restricted from twisting so as long as the weight keeps it in contact with the rails I can't see too many problems. I wasn't sure about the side control so I didn't etch anything for that. I've come up with a plate that fits into the pivot point and is prevented from rotating by the plastic sideframes. The side control springs are soldered to this plate ard fit through locating holes on the pony truck. I shall see how well the arrangement gets on! I'm waiting for Ultrascale to deliver some 3'0" diesel disc wheels for the pony truck so I've borrowed some GWR 3'0" wheels from my Grange for the time being.
Peak Bogies 4.JPG
Peak Bogies 4.JPG (43.37 KiB) Viewed 8120 times

Peak Bogies 5.JPG
Peak Bogies 5.JPG (40.73 KiB) Viewed 8120 times

It would be lovely if someone could do a casting to replace those lightweight plastic springs.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:51 pm

I see you have the bogie pivot point in the correct place, does this mean the latest Bachmann releases have this corrected, if so that is something I missed although I think I saw mention that the next class 40 release will be similarly corrected.
Regards
Keith

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:31 pm

Hi Keith,

I'm not sure to be honest. My Bachmann Peak(32-700) didn't have the bogie pivot point in the right place before I attacked it, it was halfway between the 1st and 2nd driven axles. I took the pivot information from CLAG's website when designing the bogies. Much easier as well to put it over the centre axle.

Justin

Edit: Can't spell CLAG!

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:44 pm

Looks great.

I'd like to use them in the Class 40s that I seem to have been accumulating......
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:12 pm

Much easier as well to put it over the centre axle.

Except it must need quite a substantial carving job on the chassis block?
It will certainly be an improvement though.
Keith

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:42 pm

Horsetan wrote:I'd like to use them in the Class 40s that I seem to have been accumulating......


I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work in a class 40. I need to finish sorting out the pony truck first though but the main sprung bogie is good to go.

grovenor-2685 wrote:
Much easier as well to put it over the centre axle.

Except it must need quite a substantial carving job on the chassis block?


I did have to remove some material but not a huge ammount and it didn't take long. I could have got away with taking less away than I did.
Peak Bogies 7.JPG
Peak Bogies 7.JPG (35.44 KiB) Viewed 8066 times

Justin

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barrowroad
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby barrowroad » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:33 pm

A replacement chassis for the Bachmann Peak - wonderful. Keep up the good work Justin, I look forward to purchasing a couple when they are ready.

Robin

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Horsetan
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Horsetan » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:52 am

jjnewitt wrote:.....I noticed when I ordered from Eileen's recently that they've stopped doing my favourite 28 SWG phospher broze wire for the coil springs......


I stumbled across this company which provides wire for musical instruments. They say on their website that no order is too small. Phosphor bronze wire is supplied by them. Might be worth asking whether they can supply coils of 28swg p/b wire - enough to last for a long, long time......
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:04 pm

Thanks for the link Ivan. I'll have a good look. Might be a good source of guitar wire as well, I seem to get through a lot of it! I shall also see how the soft brass wire springs get on under the Peak. They seem to have potential.

Justin

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newport_rod
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby newport_rod » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:31 pm

Justin
Will we be able to see the Peak run at the NAGNAG open day on Saturday?
Cheers
Rod

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby Mike Garwood » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:28 pm

newport_rod wrote:Justin
Will we be able to see the Peak run at the NAGNAG open day on Saturday?
Cheers
Rod


If he doesn't bring it, he'll be sleeping in a tent in the garden come Weds, thurs and friday night! :twisted:

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jjnewitt
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Re: Adventures in the land of fully sprung diesels

Postby jjnewitt » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:49 pm

newport_rod wrote:Justin
Will we be able to see the Peak run at the NAGNAG open day on Saturday?
Cheers
Rod


Hi Rod,

The Peak will be there. It's up and running fine, at least in a straight line! Looking forward to seeing Llanastr. See you on the weekend.

Justin
Mike Garwood wrote:If he doesn't bring it, he'll be sleeping in a tent in the garden come Weds, thurs and friday night! :twisted:


I'd best not forget it then!


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