A CSB Source book
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:19 pm
In the past I’ve posted a fair bit of stuff, on a number of threads, about the use of Continuous Springy Beam (CSB) suspension on steam engine chassis. When I wrote it I sort of hoped that they might have some long term value. However if a thread gets many posts added to it can become difficult to find a particular post, and if it doesn't attract additional posts it soon disappears down the list. In either case the information in it becomes harder to track down.
The purpose of this post is to catalogue what I've put up there so it is much easier to find, and, because it sits on my own “workbench” forum, hopefully it won’t disappear from view without my say so. I won’t necessarily be sticking to just my own posts and I expect to cataloguing stuff posted in other threads and websites, so anybody looking for CSB information need only start looking in the one place. Mostly I’m doing this for me, but hopefully other people will find it useful too.
To try and put a little organisation into the information available, I’ve tried to structure things a bit in this post and then use links to take you on to the details which are held in other places. What this means is that to access the information you should always start with this post, the first in the CSB Casebook Thread, and then use the links below to find the bit you want. This is a slight abuse of the structure of the forum, but it is in the spirit of the Scalefour Wiki that Deputy Chairman and low flying motorcyclist Paul has been championing.
9 headings follow, each with a brief explanation of what is under each heading. Click on the heading and it will, eventually, take you to a further summary post which gives information about, and links to, the key posts. In the short term it may just take you strait to the referenced thread but I can’t do everything at once.
This post, and the summaries which will also be held on this thread, will be edited to add additional new stuff as it comes along.
Despite me playing fast and loose with the forum structure there is no problem if you wish to add your own comment/feedback/suggestions to the thread.
Genesis
I didn’t invent CSB’s I've only tried to explain and popularise something that I saw as a real advance in 4mm steam loco chassis design. There is a lot of basic material on the Central Londan Area Group (CLAG) webs site, much of which predates my involvement, and that contains information I have reference over and over again. So before going on to catalogue my own stuff, I give links and a summary to what I consider to be the key CLAG website sections.
Loco Suspension, fitting CSBs
This is the thread where I started. It covers the basic theory although my thinking has moved on a bit since then. The thread is based around a blow by blow account of the conversion of an existing loco (the J10 0-6-0) to CSB's, both loco and tender acquiring new chassis in the process. As well as basic CSB stuff it also covers things like articulated coupling rods and pickup design, and refers back to previous work on the O4 (2-8-0) which was what convinced me that CSB’s were the way forward.
Abstruse CSB Theory
This thread was started to defend the average reader of the “Loco Suspension, fitting CSBs” thread from a discussion about the validity of the software models/spread sheets used to design a CSB chassis. While I found this fascinating there was a danger of suggesting that CSBs could only be implemented by the wielders of some sort of academic qualification. While clearly not true it was worth allowing those, who didn’t want to immerse themselves in theoretical concepts, to avoid having to plough through them. It was this thread which lead to the development of two main “user friendly” spreadsheet tools for designing your CSB chassis.
CSBs and the Single Bogie
Earlier work on CSB’s concentrated on chassis which only carry weight on the driving wheels, typically an 0-6-0. This thread deals with my first effort to apply CSB’s to a chassis in which some of the loco weight needed to be carried on a bogie. The subject was a Bill Bedford C12 (actauly a 4-4-2) chassis kit and the thread covers theoretical considerations on a 4-4-0 chassis, their application to the kit and some practical problems that turned up on the way. It also gives a method for fitting pick ups on a bogie.
CSBs a question of Gravity
This follows on from the “CSB’s and the Single Bogie” thread to develop a generalised way of working out the design of any CSB chassis with, or without, a functional weight carrying bogie. So you can guarantee that the chassis will sit level and determined the weight distribution across all the weight carrying wheels at the design stage. It also includes an explanation of how weight distribution across driving axles can effect a locos pulling power.
CSB and tenders
A useful thread which discuses the use of CSB on tenders, and the implications for weight distribution between loco and tender. It also covers the interaction of wheel top wiper pick ups and CSB.
Getting your CSB loco sitting level and the buffer heights right
A 10 point summary of how you achieve what the title says
CSB for a Single Driver
Explains how a CSB could be applied to a 2-2-2 single driver. In particular a LB&SCR Stroudley class G
Buck Jumping On Mass
My thread explaining how I built a couple of GER Buck jumper Tank locos (A J65 and a J69). These were both CSB fitted. There is an extensive write up which runs over thirty odd instalments, Parts 2 to 8 of which are all to do with applying CSB to etched chassis kits using the Highlevel jig and hornblocks. The link will take you to an index thread which will allow you to find the post which cover the various aspect of fittings CSBs as well as any other of the topics that came up as part of a full loco build. It also covers the use of Exactoscale Loco wheels which is really only of historic interest now.
Edited 31/3/2014 to reference the summary of the “Abuse CSB Theory” thread.
Edited 7/6/2014 to reference a thread on the use of CSB on tenders
Edited 18/1/2018 to reference a thread on getting a CSB loco level and the right hight
Edited 15/8/2020 to give a link to the post explaining why weight distribution affects loco pulling power
Edited 15/8/2020 to add link to the CSB for a Single Thread
Edited 18/3/2024 to add a link to the Buckjumping on Mass Thread
The purpose of this post is to catalogue what I've put up there so it is much easier to find, and, because it sits on my own “workbench” forum, hopefully it won’t disappear from view without my say so. I won’t necessarily be sticking to just my own posts and I expect to cataloguing stuff posted in other threads and websites, so anybody looking for CSB information need only start looking in the one place. Mostly I’m doing this for me, but hopefully other people will find it useful too.
To try and put a little organisation into the information available, I’ve tried to structure things a bit in this post and then use links to take you on to the details which are held in other places. What this means is that to access the information you should always start with this post, the first in the CSB Casebook Thread, and then use the links below to find the bit you want. This is a slight abuse of the structure of the forum, but it is in the spirit of the Scalefour Wiki that Deputy Chairman and low flying motorcyclist Paul has been championing.
9 headings follow, each with a brief explanation of what is under each heading. Click on the heading and it will, eventually, take you to a further summary post which gives information about, and links to, the key posts. In the short term it may just take you strait to the referenced thread but I can’t do everything at once.
This post, and the summaries which will also be held on this thread, will be edited to add additional new stuff as it comes along.
Despite me playing fast and loose with the forum structure there is no problem if you wish to add your own comment/feedback/suggestions to the thread.
Genesis
I didn’t invent CSB’s I've only tried to explain and popularise something that I saw as a real advance in 4mm steam loco chassis design. There is a lot of basic material on the Central Londan Area Group (CLAG) webs site, much of which predates my involvement, and that contains information I have reference over and over again. So before going on to catalogue my own stuff, I give links and a summary to what I consider to be the key CLAG website sections.
Loco Suspension, fitting CSBs
This is the thread where I started. It covers the basic theory although my thinking has moved on a bit since then. The thread is based around a blow by blow account of the conversion of an existing loco (the J10 0-6-0) to CSB's, both loco and tender acquiring new chassis in the process. As well as basic CSB stuff it also covers things like articulated coupling rods and pickup design, and refers back to previous work on the O4 (2-8-0) which was what convinced me that CSB’s were the way forward.
Abstruse CSB Theory
This thread was started to defend the average reader of the “Loco Suspension, fitting CSBs” thread from a discussion about the validity of the software models/spread sheets used to design a CSB chassis. While I found this fascinating there was a danger of suggesting that CSBs could only be implemented by the wielders of some sort of academic qualification. While clearly not true it was worth allowing those, who didn’t want to immerse themselves in theoretical concepts, to avoid having to plough through them. It was this thread which lead to the development of two main “user friendly” spreadsheet tools for designing your CSB chassis.
CSBs and the Single Bogie
Earlier work on CSB’s concentrated on chassis which only carry weight on the driving wheels, typically an 0-6-0. This thread deals with my first effort to apply CSB’s to a chassis in which some of the loco weight needed to be carried on a bogie. The subject was a Bill Bedford C12 (actauly a 4-4-2) chassis kit and the thread covers theoretical considerations on a 4-4-0 chassis, their application to the kit and some practical problems that turned up on the way. It also gives a method for fitting pick ups on a bogie.
CSBs a question of Gravity
This follows on from the “CSB’s and the Single Bogie” thread to develop a generalised way of working out the design of any CSB chassis with, or without, a functional weight carrying bogie. So you can guarantee that the chassis will sit level and determined the weight distribution across all the weight carrying wheels at the design stage. It also includes an explanation of how weight distribution across driving axles can effect a locos pulling power.
CSB and tenders
A useful thread which discuses the use of CSB on tenders, and the implications for weight distribution between loco and tender. It also covers the interaction of wheel top wiper pick ups and CSB.
Getting your CSB loco sitting level and the buffer heights right
A 10 point summary of how you achieve what the title says
CSB for a Single Driver
Explains how a CSB could be applied to a 2-2-2 single driver. In particular a LB&SCR Stroudley class G
Buck Jumping On Mass
My thread explaining how I built a couple of GER Buck jumper Tank locos (A J65 and a J69). These were both CSB fitted. There is an extensive write up which runs over thirty odd instalments, Parts 2 to 8 of which are all to do with applying CSB to etched chassis kits using the Highlevel jig and hornblocks. The link will take you to an index thread which will allow you to find the post which cover the various aspect of fittings CSBs as well as any other of the topics that came up as part of a full loco build. It also covers the use of Exactoscale Loco wheels which is really only of historic interest now.
Edited 31/3/2014 to reference the summary of the “Abuse CSB Theory” thread.
Edited 7/6/2014 to reference a thread on the use of CSB on tenders
Edited 18/1/2018 to reference a thread on getting a CSB loco level and the right hight
Edited 15/8/2020 to give a link to the post explaining why weight distribution affects loco pulling power
Edited 15/8/2020 to add link to the CSB for a Single Thread
Edited 18/3/2024 to add a link to the Buckjumping on Mass Thread