A Highland Miscellany

allanferguson
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby allanferguson » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:39 pm

[quote="Mark Tatlow
Yes to getting the signals to work. I use servos as per some postings a bit further back on this thread.[/quote]

I was really wondering (a touch impertinently, perhaps) whether you would be getting the lamps to go up and down.

Regards

Allan F

martin goodall
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby martin goodall » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:45 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:The point I thought I was relying on was that if the photogrpaher/author is doing this work as part of their employment, copyright sits with the employer and is for a shorter duration (I think!)?


Not so, I'm afraid.

It is true that where someone takes photos or writes something in the course of their employment, the copyright vests in the employer, but the period for which the copyright lasts is not affected.

(Note that where someone is commissioned to prodcue something, i.e. under a contract for services [not as an employee] the copyright vests in that contractor, not in the person who commissioned the work, unless the contract includes an express assignment of the copyright.)

It is only where the authorship is anonymous or unascertainable that the copyright period runs from the date of publication. It used to be 50 years, but I am not so sure now whether it might have been extended more recently.

The catch lies in "publication". That means being made available to the public. There were many internal documents produced by the railways clearly marked as "Private (for use of staff only) and not for publication". I wouldn't like to hazard a guess as to when, if ever, these documents might be out of copyright.

That last remark doesn't apply to photos (see the previous discussion).

martin goodall
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby martin goodall » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:46 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:The point I thought I was relying on was that if the photogrpaher/author is doing this work as part of their employment, copyright sits with the employer and is for a shorter duration (I think!)?


Not so, I'm afraid.

It is true that where someone takes photos or writes something in the course of their employment, the copyright vests in the employer, but the period for which the copyright lasts is not affected.

(Note that where someone is commissioned to produce something, i.e. under a contract for services [not as an employee] the copyright vests in that contractor, not in the person who commissioned the work, unless the contract includes an express assignment of the copyright.)

It is only where the authorship is anonymous or unascertainable that the copyright period runs from the date of publication. It used to be 50 years, but I am not so sure now whether it might have been extended more recently.

The catch lies in "publication". That means being made available to the public. There were many internal documents produced by the railways clearly marked as "Private (for use of staff only) and not for publication". I wouldn't like to hazard a guess as to when, if ever, these documents might be out of copyright.

That last remark doesn't apply to photos (see the previous discussion).

billbedford
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby billbedford » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:39 am

If a work is produce by some one in the corse of his employment the copyright lasts for 70 after the work was first made available to the public. This could mean that the work was published, e.g. adverts, flyers pamphlets etc or even listed in an archive catalogue for such things as internal memos, works drawings etc.
Bill Bedford
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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:05 pm

I received the test etch back from the etchers and after a family holiday (Lisbon - hot but great and with fab trams – see below………). I have had a chance to look at it.

I still have some things to learn, as where I have drawn things up at 4mm the smaller elements have come out a bit fine. So things like the framing around spectacle plates or the cross to the centre of the brackets is a bit too delicate to use. Also, I made a number of the fold lines and the holes are a bit too small so need to be drilled out. Thus, whilst the 4mm ones are usable, they can be done better so I am going to edit the etch.

I also included the signal arms etch at 7mm and this is much better. Whilst one or two elements would benefit from a slight redraft, it is definitely usable and therefore I am just in the process of some 7mm modelling (excommunication from the Society?). I’ll get some pictures up when I can get it a bit further.

In the meantime, I have also managed to have a bash at some 3-D modelling on CAD to get some finials made up. The idea will be to do an initial set via 3-D printing and then to use these to make some lost wax castings. Whilst these are available via MSE as a whitemetal casting, they are very delicate and will last very little time in my clumsy mits. I will do a lamp via the same route for the same reason.

Anyway, this is what the 3-D model looks like (actually the final version has a sprue coming of the top to support the top of the finial but it rather blocks out what it is you are looking at):

Finials Shapeways Artwork.png
3 D model of Mackenzie & Holland finials, minus the sprue to the top of the pinnacle which holds this in place
Finials Shapeways Artwork.png (89.12 KiB) Viewed 7600 times

And to give a flavour of the trams in Lisbon:

lisbon trams 2.jpg
Lisbon tram
lisbon trams 2.jpg (10.62 KiB) Viewed 7600 times

lisbon trams night.jpg
and a funicular
lisbon trams night.jpg (11.13 KiB) Viewed 7600 times

PS - I know that a number of you like Jol & Bill know all about this etching or 3 D printing lark; for me it is definitely a voyage of discovery so bear with me!
Mark Tatlow

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Tim V
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Tim V » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:01 pm

7mm Mark, are you sure you know what you're letting yourself in for?
Tim V
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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:27 pm

Tim V wrote:7mm Mark, are you sure you know what you're letting yourself in for?


Says the man that is dabbling with 2mm/ft.................
Mark Tatlow

Philip Hall
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:15 pm

As you say, the Lisbon trams are great but the trackwork and grades are rather frightening in places!

Philip

RedDragon
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby RedDragon » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:40 pm

And you have to watch out for the 'dragons teeth'

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:26 pm

I have had the test etches back for some time and have had a play with them. This is what they look like back from the etchers:

100_2682compress.JPG
Test etch in 4mm

I did find that I had made a number of the components to fine. I had prototype information, so I had made things like the balance levers to absolute scale and this is too delicate, certainly for 4mm. So they look beautiful in the etch but would not survive on a layout. Fortunately, I had also done an etch of the arms and signal components in 7mm, so I was able to do a little bit of 7mm modelling. This used a Lochgorm Models etched post and my design of base is where it gets too (sorry, slightly fuzzy picture):

100_2671compress.JPG
Highland water columns test prints (older type to the left, standard type to the right)

I also got the first of the 3d prints back from Shapeways and these are very good indeed, so I am well chuffed with them! They are slightly difficult to photograph but here is what these look like:

100_2684compress.JPG
7mm test build; with a Lochgorm Models post

I need to make a couple of tweeks to these and get a revised print done of them. I have a miniature etch for the handles done, then I will make a few resin copies of them and they are done!

I also had the finials and lamps printed; the lamps worked fine and so did the finials in 7mm but they proved far to fragile in 4mm – so again I need to make a few key elements overscale to be able to use it.
Mark Tatlow

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:52 pm

I have a confession to make; I have been doing some chequebook modelling – and my crime is rather more serious than the latest Hornby offering………………
photo 4compress.JPG

photo 1acompress.JPG

………and it cost rather more than an offering from Margate too!

I commissioned John James to build this about two years ago (that is how long a pro builder’s waiting list is if they are any good) and this was delivered a couple of weeks ago. 14413; Ben Alligan – constructed as she was in the mid 1920?s so in the fully lined crimson lake and jolly fine she looks to I am sure you will agree.

But, there is a problem with her…………………..she has names and that is where this post can still go on a workbench thread! The LMS perpetuated nearly all of the Highland Railway’s names that were still applied to the locos at the grouping (I can think of only one exception – Lochgorm) and continued to paint them on the splashers. We hunted around for a sensible lettering and did not manage to find any where the font had the right serifs and slightly unusual massing of the down stroke of the leters, so John omitted the names of this and another that he built for my father (Ben Clebrig if that is of interest to you). That has meant that I have been fighting with CAD again and I think I have got close enough for my purposes (in 4mm, these are less than 2mm high!).
More Fonts-1_edited-1.png

So once I have sorted out the right radius for the name (I think the Ben Slioch below is on a slightly too shallow an arc); then I will have a go at printing my own transfers. I have the appropriate paper, so lets see how we do!

One of the fun things with the Bens is choosing names for mountains that I really enjoyed climbing; Ben Alligan was probably around my 30th Munro and is a fabulous climb. If you do it, you have to do the full circuit and finish on the Horns of Alligan – a bit of a mild scramble, not as airy as Aonach Eagach (which I have done) or the Cuillin (which I have not!); but still a jolly fine climb. Oh and on a clear day you can see clearly to the outer Hebrides – fabulous in the blue sky.
horns of alligan.jpg
horns of alligan.jpg (160.34 KiB) Viewed 6959 times

The Horns of Alligan looking east.
Mark Tatlow

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:33 pm

In the summer, my 16 year old decided to rejoin the human race (having spent the previous three years on the planet "grunt") sufficient that he and his mate decided that they might actually want a week away with a boring middle aged bloke. So after some discussion, we decided to go and get some "fest" in at Edinburgh, cycle the Dava way, bag a couple of munros and take in a distillery tour or two.

We stayed at Aviemore so I went on one of my photo recons and whilst I must have been past it several times before I found this rather nice yard hand crane.
_DSC0146compress.JPG

_DSC0144compress 5.JPG

I thought it ouzed atmosphere and would make a lovely little model; so I have had a bash with it - again trying to use modern means to make it so that it could be replicated if need be. So other than what I think is a brake at the rear (which I forgot until I loaded the picture up above) I think it is done.
Aviemore Crane 1 crop.png
Aviemore Crane 1 crop.png (43.61 KiB) Viewed 6848 times

Aviemore Crane 2 crop.png

Aviemore Crane 3 crop.png
Aviemore Crane 3 crop.png (30.21 KiB) Viewed 6848 times

The base piece, sides and the cowl that goes over the base of the main wheel (the green bit) are intended to be etched; the rest will go down the route of 3 D printing again.

So it is time to spend some money with Shapeways and PPD again........... I have also done some work on the other things that I had etched and printed before; hopefully they will have the little glitches sorted this time; a little present for myself for Christmas!
Mark Tatlow

Terry Bendall
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:36 am

Very nice Mark. There were of course others that were very similar. We have one on Pulborough which can just be made out if you look at http://www.scalefour.org/shows/scalefor ... ugh02.html

It may have come from somewhere like Mike's Models but it is a very long time ago.

Terry Bendall

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Horsetan
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Horsetan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:04 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:....my 16 year old decided to rejoin the human race (having spent the previous three years on the planet "grunt")....


I call it the "teenage menopause" :mrgreen:
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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James Moorhouse
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby James Moorhouse » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:10 pm

The Aviemore yard crane was mentioned in 'Modelling a North British Railway Yard Crane', by Andrew McCracken, Scalefour News 181 (February, 2013).

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:13 am

We haven’t had an update on the etching and mastering that I have been doing for the signals for a while.

Well, I have had both the rapid-prototype masters and etching in. Using the former, I have also had my first set of lost wax casting done – in this case for the lamps and finials. This is what they look like – which I think is pretty good and a lot better than the white metal ones from MSE.

_DSC0569compress.JPG
casting back

and the etching looks like this – brackets, arms, ladders and a few other bits and pieces.

_DSC0551compress.JPG
etching back

So it was time to make a signal – in this case a fairly simple single arm Highland signal. So using a post from Lochgorm and then my parts for the arms, spectacle plates, windlass, balance levers, ladders, finials and lamp, this is what it has come out like:

_DSC0004compress.JPG
Front view of signal
_DSC0578compress.JPG
rear view of completed signal

and the castings close up looked like this.

_DSC0577compress.JPG
close up of windlass and balance levers
_DSC0574compress.JPG
arm and finial

So all in all, I am pretty chuffed!

It does mean that I think there is some more signal building to come on these pages……….
Mark Tatlow

Crepello
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Crepello » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:50 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:We haven’t had an update on the etching and mastering that I have been doing for the signals for a while.

Well, I have had both the rapid-prototype masters and etching in. Using the former, I have also had my first set of lost wax casting done – in this case for the lamps and finials. This is what they look like – which I think is pretty good and a lot better than the white metal ones from MSE.


Those are seriously impressive. Presumably the RP masters were in resin, but your sprues look to be solder assembled. Did you end up with a mixed-media metal/resin pattern to send to your foundry?

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:47 am

Crepello wrote:
Those are seriously impressive. Presumably the RP masters were in resin, but your sprues look to be solder assembled. Did you end up with a mixed-media metal/resin pattern to send to your foundry?



The masters were indeed in resin (Fine Ultra Detail from Shapeways). The sprues were installed by the caster, so I think they will be wax melted on?
Mark Tatlow

billbedford
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby billbedford » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:04 am

It is always a good practice to sprue patterns up yourself. That way the cast isn't tempted to put the sprues on 'important' faces. The extra cost at Shapeways is more than compensated by your peace of mind.
Bill Bedford
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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:09 pm

billbedford wrote:It is always a good practice to sprue patterns up yourself. That way the cast isn't tempted to put the sprues on 'important' faces. The extra cost at Shapeways is more than compensated by your peace of mind.


Thanks Bill, that is good advice which I will follow. The finials were fine but they put some chunky sprues on the lamps that take a while to file away!
Mark Tatlow

Crepello
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Crepello » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:59 am

billbedford wrote:It is always a good practice to sprue patterns up yourself. That way the cast isn't tempted to put the sprues on 'important' faces. The extra cost at Shapeways is more than compensated by your peace of mind.

The benefit may have to be weighed against the components in a group like Mark's competing for optimum orientation in Shapeways' machine, presumably, and optimum orientation at that stage might not be the optimum for metal flow at the casting stage. Or am I imagining invisible dragons (again)?

billbedford
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby billbedford » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:06 am

Mark Tatlow wrote:Thanks Bill, that is good advice which I will follow. The finials were fine but they put some chunky sprues on the lamps that take a while to file away!


I would keep the sprues to about 3mm diameter, though they can be tapered where thy meet the pattern.
Bill Bedford
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billbedford
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby billbedford » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:12 am

Crepello wrote:
billbedford wrote:It is always a good practice to sprue patterns up yourself. That way the cast isn't tempted to put the sprues on 'important' faces. The extra cost at Shapeways is more than compensated by your peace of mind.

The benefit may have to be weighed against the components in a group like Mark's competing for optimum orientation in Shapeways' machine, presumably, and optimum orientation at that stage might not be the optimum for metal flow at the casting stage. Or am I imagining invisible dragons (again)?


Shapeways seems to have taken delivery of some new machines, so there have been fewer orientation problems with their recent output. You still have to remember that the waxes are made in a two part mould so the patterns have to be orientated on the sprue to take that into account.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
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Colin Parks
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Colin Parks » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:05 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:We haven’t had an update on the etching and mastering that I have been doing for the signals for a while.

Well, I have had both the rapid-prototype masters and etching in. Using the former, I have also had my first set of lost wax casting done – in this case for the lamps and finials. This is what they look like – which I think is pretty good and a lot better than the white metal ones from MSE.

_DSC0569compress.JPG

and the etching looks like this – brackets, arms, ladders and a few other bits and pieces.

_DSC0551compress.JPG

So it was time to make a signal – in this case a fairly simple single arm Highland signal. So using a post from Lochgorm and then my parts for the arms, spectacle plates, windlass, balance levers, ladders, finials and lamp, this is what it has come out like:

_DSC0004compress.JPG
_DSC0578compress.JPG

and the castings close up looked like this.




_DSC0577compress.JPG
_DSC0574compress.JPG

So all in all, I am pretty chuffed!

It does mean that I think there is some more signal building to come on these pages……….


Hi mark,

Impressive signal (design of components and quality of the modelling).

All the best,

Colin

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:25 am

I appear to have been rather slack in keeping this thread up to date; sorry! Thus, we have some catching up to do......

First up was the restoration of the signals for Benfieldside; which you will recall was in return for help building my baseboards. By June, the three restored signals looked like this:
photo 2compress2.JPG
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photo 1compress2.JPG
photo 1compress2.JPG (45.94 KiB) Viewed 5415 times
photo 3compress2.JPG
photo 3compress2.JPG (50.96 KiB) Viewed 5415 times

And I had also built the first of the replacement signals for those that have now been damaged beyond repair or were missing when Tim & Julian acquired the layout.
photo 4compress2.JPG
photo 4compress2.JPG (52.15 KiB) Viewed 5415 times

By Scaleforum, these had been finished and looked like this:
img_7207.jpg
img_7208.jpg

(Thanks to Phillip Hall for the last two pictures).
Mark Tatlow


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