A Highland Miscellany

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grovenor-2685
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:37 pm

Mark,
Stationmaster in another place has pointed out that the block regs would require the fpls bolted to accept a train from the next station, ie issue the token, and if you want to follow that particular operating practice then the 4 locks 12 needs to be deleted and replaced by 2 locks 12 and 4 locks 14. (As in the IRSE example) Then you can have both bolts in and accept two trains, the change does not affect the locking otherwise, and won't make any visual difference so just depends how prototypical you plan on having your operations.
Keith
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:43 pm

I have dug out my copy of the BR 1960 block regs (for E, LM, NE, Sc. and S Regions, note that the WR used their own).
The rule on acceptance of trains approaching a crossing place is that the line must be clear up to the starter and the facing points "set" for the loop leading to the starter, and then the general instructions state that "set" for the purpose of acceptance includes locked Of course there is no guarantee that the 1960 regs are the same as the regs when the Highland Rly was running the show, the only way to be sure of that would be to find a copy. If trains have been accepted from both directions then both must be brought to a stand at the home then let in one by one. The first one is not allowed in on arrival if the other is still in section. Similarly shunt moves cannot be made towards an approaching train unless there is a trap point to prevent an overrun.
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby billbedford » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:31 am

Wasn't the Highland one of the railways that used to pass trains that were longer than the loops?
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby John Palmer » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:59 am

There was certainly an occasion in 1953 when both trains arriving at Ardlui for a 'meet ' were longer than the passing loop. But that was on the West Highland.

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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:26 am

The first one is not allowed in on arrival if the other is still in section.
Reading the small print very carefully that may not be exactly the case but would have to be followed if the signal/fpl locking is done as suggested.
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby LesGros » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:34 am

John Palmer wrote:
There was certainly an occasion in 1953 when both trains arriving at Ardlui for a 'meet ' were longer than the passing loop. But that was on the West Highland.

Mark,
That would make an interesting "Shunting puzzle" for an exhibition :D

Presumably, the "hea'jin o' the region" provided a solution in the intruction for the moves to the Ardliu signalman together with the movement(s) approval ?
If not, :oops: the post arrival conversation between the train crews and the siggy would have been interesting to behold.
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:02 am

The saga continues and I have now made all the trays and the bars that the locks go into. As I have yet to colour the actual levers on the frame, I have coloured these to ease my understanding of things.

As this is an experiment, I am making this out of plasticard/evergreen strip to speed construction. The final thing will be in soldered and milled brass. I have yet to come up with a plate to secure all these bars in place, so they will not flop out as they presently appear that they might. This is what we currently look like:
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three quarter view

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The locking frame

I have been warned (by Howard) that I may snap my tappets from the locking bars or something else. This is due to the significant mechanical advantage that the lever has over the through of the bar - if you look at the end view you can see that it is about 10:1, so I can see why I am being warned. Ultimately this is an experiment so I will take it easy with the frame if it breaks I will know that it will need to be tougher next time!
_DSC10268compress.JPG
Side view
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:35 pm

No, this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning. Interlocked Lever Frame – Part 4. With thanks to someone else for the quote.

I managed to get all of the locking bars, installed over the weekend and the dogs (the teeth that engage in the sliding bars) to get the interlocking going. And this is what I get to:

_DSC272compress.JPG
The locking and sliding bars now in place, with all slots cut.

This shows all of the components assembled in place. The dogs engage in slots in the sliding bars but the dogs have angled sides – so if nothing holds them in place the movement of the slider pushes them to one side and the slider can move. When another slider is in the way (ie there is an opposing lock set) then this can not occur – so it locks shut.

_DSC270compress.JPG
With the securing frame now in situ

To stop the sliders popping up when they encounter a lock, a lid has been fashioned. I wanted all of the locking to remain visible, so this is just a skeleton.

_DSC269compress.JPG

I did find that the angles of the slots needed to be just over 45 degrees for the locking bar to move easily and they also need to match the dogs quite neatly. If I do this for real, I think some lost wax masters and then castings will be required to ease the process of manufacture.

The frame does lock well and neatly. Of course I made a few errors in where slots were to go but having made it from plastic, these were actually quite easy to sort out. What is more significant is that there is some slop in the levers – this occurs worst where the yoke of the bar that runs through to operate the toggle switch and sliding bars goes over the base of the lever. The hole in this is a bit too big and it means that the lever can move 30 % of its intended movement before it makes the sliding bar move and hence encounter the lock. This does slightly defeat the object of the locking and will need some work. I have an idea of linking the two more physically but if this does not work, then it may be back to the drawing board.

All in all, it works though and it is quite fun working through the desired move, working out what then needs to be thrown and in what order – although this may send my team a bit over the edge in the heat of an exhibition! However, some manufacturing refinement is going to be needed to make it work better. I remain tempted to use the potential kit that might be available but this makes the locking invisible and I am not so certain about this. Food for thought!
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sun May 12, 2013 11:26 am

This thread started with a series of postings on the construction of a replacement Comet chassis for a Bachmann Crab. As is my way a bit, it got put to one side but it has been picked up again and is now close to complete. The working gubbins are all complete (the last few links will not be added until the end) and there is only a little detailing to go.

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The naked chassis from above

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and an upskirt version


This is what it looks like with the body on. I think it is sitting a bit high, so I will have to take a fairly close look at that. What is even better is that it got to have its legs stretched on Chris Longley's New Mere a fortnight back and behaved itself impeccably - big sigh of relief!

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With its clothes on

I introduced a spring onto the front pony truck. Iain Rice recommends this is in his book on chassis construction to both take a little of the load and also to help steer the pony truck/loco into curves. My solution works but is a faff as the spring keeps coming out of its yoke - a revision is going to be required:

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the springing arrangement to the front pony truck

I have also made a replacement chassis for my loco - this comes from Lanarkshire Models & Supplies . It is a bit like the Comet chassis; it needs patience and is intense but is well designed and goes together pretty well. It uses CSBs as opposed to individual springs but as the kit is conceived ot take these from the start, these are a doddle.

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Tender chassis from above

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and below

The proprietor (Mr Franks who does drop in here) might not recognise his kit totally as some big holes have been hacked into it. This is because I wish to experiment with steam sound on this model:

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The chassis dwarfed by the speaker!

I have not been sold on sound fitted steam locos. They sound too tiny for me but I am wondering if this is about the set up of the systems as much as the actual recordings - this is in part prompted by the debate going on in the "inconsiderate sound at exhibitions" thread. One can but find out...................
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue May 21, 2013 10:04 pm

I did run into a problem with the tender; not of the manufacturer's making.........

I had sought to make one side of the tender live by shorting out the plastic centred wheels with wire. I had used fairly fine wire and poked them into the axle boss but it appears that either the wire was not fine enough or the Alan Gibson plastic centred wheels just not up to the slight extra thickness the wire gave. The tender ran but behaved a bit like a clowns car at the circus bouncing up and down on its non centred axles.

So back to the drawing board for that one and, with a bit of help from Tim Venton's suggestion, I gave the brass wheels from Alan Gibson a try. Whilst I had liked the look of these, I have been shy of thinking of using them on the grounds that my lathe craft is not up to turning them; certainly for drivers where getting the crank pin throw is critical.

The good news is that with a tad of care, the carrying/bogie wheels can be used without resorting to a lathe. All I did was to ream out the axle hole to a very tight fit for the axle. The axle is then mounted using a vice to press it home (taking care to ensure it is going on square). I then mounted the axle in a drill clamped in a vice (aka cheap and basic lathe but it will b*****r the bearings in the drill fairly quickly). With nothing more than a file I cleaned up the rim such that again it was just too big for the steel rim that Alan Gibson provides. The fun bit then came with the heating of the rim on the kitchen hotplate and then the brass centre is dropped into the rim. With a little squeezing around its perimeter it went in straight; does look nice and works a treat.

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I don't think this crude method can be used quite as easily for brass centred wheels to both sides - a mandrel will be required here - but I did not want this so I consider this a success!
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Andy W » Wed May 22, 2013 8:58 am

They look great Mark.

"bouncing up and down on its non centred axles" I find putting a scalpel cut in the wheel boss cures this. It allows the 5amp fuse wire to bed into the plastic.
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:17 pm

I have not actually picked up a modelling knife or soldering iron for a couple of weeks now; largely because I got a bit of a bug for sorting out the etch artwork.

I have now completed, I hope, all of the artwork I will need for all of the signals that will be required on Glenmutchkin. Indeed, it should do all the signals I and just about anyone else ever needs for any scheme based on the Highland era!!!!

I am fortunate that I have a couple of an 1895 McKenzie & Holland catalogue and a further partial copy from a bit later. I have also been provided with a number of really good drawings of bracket signals from M&H, prompted by my ramblings on the web. This has given me with a pretty good handle on how they were constructed and I can draw up rather more comprehensive (and a little more specific to the Highland) artwork than are available form any of the other sources.

So this is what I have come up with. Firstly, an etch of all of the arms, balance weights and a track mechanism for raising the lamp to the top of the post (I think this was peculiar to the Highland):

Signal Arms and Bits Model (3)_edited-1.jpg

and then an etch that includes the large brackets used for the multi-doll signals and all of the support brackets and landing:

Large Bracket with ribs Etch Master v2 Model (2).jpg

and this one is the smaller bracket; used on twin doll signals:

Small Bracket with ribs Etch Master Model (2)_edited-1.jpg

I am looking forward to finding out if I can do this etching lark; so watch this space............
Last edited by Mark Tatlow on Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tim V
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Tim V » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:40 pm

I thought copyright for written material was 50 years after the death of the author. So for example Frank Richards died in 1961, all those Bunter books are possibly out of copyright.
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Jan » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:30 am

Tim V wrote:I thought copyright for written material was 50 years after the death of the author. So for example Frank Richards died in 1961, all those Bunter books are possibly out of copyright.


From the IPO website:

But in general, the terms of protection in the UK are as follows:

Copyright in a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work lasts for the life of the author and 70 years from the end of the year in which he/she died.


It seems that the interpretation of copyright law comes up quite regularly in discussions. I know the Mods are quite hot on it over on RMWeb.

I note the following from the BCC pages:

Copyright in the typographical arrangement of a published edition

Copyright in the typographical arrangement of a published edition is vested in the publisher.

Such copyright lasts for 25 years from the end of the year in which the edition was first published.

Copyright in illustrations, diagrams and photographs lasts for the life of the artist plus 70 years.

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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby martin goodall » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:31 am

Literary and artistic copyright now lasts for 70 years from the end of the year in which the artist/author dies. (This rule changed more than 20 years ago, but I can't remember the date off-hand.)

If, however, the author was anonymous (e.g. someone who writes some official publication, company brochure, railway timetable or whatever), the the literary copyright expires 50 years after the end of the year in which the publication in question was published.

Note that there can never be any copyright in information itself, only in the way in which it is presented (i.e. the words used, the page design and layout, typography, etc.) However, copyright can extend to original ideas, e.g. the plot of a novel, so ripping off someone else's plot has been the subject fo litigation from time time.

The more interesting dates from our point of view relate to photos and maps.

O.S. Maps are subject to Crown Copyright, but this expires 50 years after the end of the year in which the map (i.e. the particular edition of the map being copied) was published. Wild Swan always put "Crown Copyright Reserved" on copies of old OS maps appearing in their boooks and magazines, and they are nearly always wrong to do so. If the edition of the map reproduced in a book or article this year was published before 1963, Crown Copyright is not reserved, and no permisison is required for its publication.

Copyright in all photos taken before 1957 expired 50 years after the end of the year in which they were taken, so no photographs taken before 1957 are any longer in copyright. The position from 1957 onwards is slightly more complex, and I don't want to turn this note into an article! Copyright subsists only in the original negative, and dates from the year in which that negative was exposed. Copyright can't be extended or renewed by making another copy. So the copyright in any prints dates back to the date of the negative, and unauthorsied copying of a print or copy infringes the copyright, if any, in the original (negative) image.

There is, on the other hand, a Reproduction Right (25 years from publication) which is held by the current owner of a photo (print or negative) which is out of copyright, but the Reproduction Right relates only to that copy, and is not infringed by a copy taken from a different copy of the same photo. I haven't got time to go into the details.

Must stop there, but I hope this helps.

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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby billbedford » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:38 pm

martin goodall wrote:O.S. Maps are subject to Crown Copyright, but this expires 50 years after the end of the year in which the map (i.e. the particular edition of the map being copied) was published. Wild Swan always put "Crown Copyright Reserved" on copies of old OS maps appearing in their boooks and magazines, and they are nearly always wrong to do so. If the edition of the map reproduced in a book or article this year was published before 1963, Crown Copyright is not reserved, and no permisison is required for its publication.


But OS expects you to put a note on your work to the effect that the the map was made by OS.
Copyright in all photos taken before 1957 expired 50 years after the end of the year in which they were taken, so no photographs taken before 1957 are any longer in copyright. The position from 1957 onwards is slightly more complex, and I don't want to turn this note into an article! Copyright subsists only in the original negative, and dates from the year in which that negative was exposed. Copyright can't be extended or renewed by making another copy. So the copyright in any prints dates back to the date of the negative, and unauthorsied copying of a print or copy infringes the copyright, if any, in the original (negative) image.


Copyright was renewed for the photos taken between 1912 and 1957 in 1996 so that it became 50 years from the date the photographs were taken or 70 years after the death of the photographer which ever was the longer.
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby martin goodall » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:19 pm

billbedford wrote:But OS expects you to put a note on your work to the effect that the the map was made by OS.


Yes, that's right. (I was trying to keep it short.)

Copyright was renewed for the photos taken between 1912 and 1957 in 1996 so that it became 50 years from the date the photographs were taken or 70 years after the death of the photographer which ever was the longer.


I must confess that this point had passed me by. (It's not my specialist subject, so I have clearly not been keeping up to date.) You don't by any chance have the relevant reference to the amending legislation, do you?

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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:57 pm

martin goodall wrote:The more interesting dates from our point of view relate to photos and maps.

...

Copyright in all photos taken before 1957 expired 50 years after the end of the year in which they were taken, so no photographs taken before 1957 are any longer in copyright. The position from 1957 onwards is slightly more complex, and I don't want to turn this note into an article! Copyright subsists only in the original negative, and dates from the year in which that negative was exposed. Copyright can't be extended or renewed by making another copy. So the copyright in any prints dates back to the date of the negative, and unauthorsied copying of a print or copy infringes the copyright, if any, in the original (negative) image.

There is, on the other hand, a Reproduction Right (25 years from publication) which is held by the current owner of a photo (print or negative) which is out of copyright, but the Reproduction Right relates only to that copy, and is not infringed by a copy taken from a different copy of the same photo. I haven't got time to go into the details.

Must stop there, but I hope this helps.


It does... If I understand it correctly, a photo taken by the Great Eastern Railway in 1911 is out of copyright, but if it has been reproduced by the GERS on their website (say at http://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php? ... &Itemid=60) then they have a Reproduction Right and one shouldn't download a copy and use it on one's own website or blog?

I'm afraid that I'm one of those people that work by examples, and not abstract concepts ;-)

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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby billbedford » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:33 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
martin goodall wrote:It does... If I understand it correctly, a photo taken by the Great Eastern Railway in 1911 is out of copyright, but if it has been reproduced by the GERS on their website (say at http://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php? ... &Itemid=60) then they have a Reproduction Right and one shouldn't download a copy and use it on one's own website or blog?


Possibly. Publication Rights only appear to apply to photographs that have never been published in the past. So if you know that that photo had been published in a book or magazine before 1988 then it will be free of copyright or publication restrictions.

I've found this site that goes into all the gory detail of copyright and photography, in a relatively clear and understandable way.
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:24 pm

Gents,

Thanks for the various bits of dialogue on copyright. The point I thought I was relying on was that if the photogrpaher/author is doing this work as part of their employment, copyright sits with the employer and is for a shorter duration (I think!).

However, I have looked up Mr Nock and he does not appear to have worked for the Model Engineer and therefore we are on 70 years from his death (he died in 1994, so we have a way to go.......). Thus I have deleted the pages from the article.

Thanks also for the site on copyright Bill, it does seem helpful. I have a task to write a piece for the snooze on this - any co-authors prepared to volunteer?
Mark Tatlow

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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby jasp » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:12 pm

Mark
Great looking artwork.
Windlass hoisted signal lamps were used on Scotland's premier railway, the Caledonian, and, Allan Ferguson told me, the NB. I don't know about other companies
Presumably the Highland copied the idea from the Caledonian! (tongue in cheek)
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby allanferguson » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:59 pm

What Jim tactfully doesn't say is that, until very recently, I thought they were unique to the North British. Never say "I know".....

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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:07 pm

allanferguson wrote:What Jim tactfully doesn't say is that, until very recently, I thought they were unique to the North British. Never say "I know".....

Allan F



So the Scottish companies are all (mostly) disinclined to climb a post to light (or relight) a lamp twice or more a day.

Must be the weather!
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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby allanferguson » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:12 pm

Well, it could be argued that the companies were thinking about the welfare of their employees -- but I would have thought that unlikely; and in any case how did they give the spectacle glasses a wipe?

I am impressed by your etching masters. Dare I hope that you'll have the system working? ("Get it all right")

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Re: A Highland Miscellany

Postby Mark Tatlow » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:26 am

allanferguson wrote:Well, it could be argued that the companies were thinking about the welfare of their employees -- but I would have thought that unlikely; and in any case how did they give the spectacle glasses a wipe?

I am impressed by your etching masters. Dare I hope that you'll have the system working? ("Get it all right")

Allan F


It must have been a bit exciting getting up the signal that did not have a ladder to oil it, clean it or maintain it.....................it would rather offset the improvement to staff welfare/safety that the whinch offered to the tending of lamps!

Yes to getting the signals to work. I use servos as per some postings a bit further back on this thread.
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