Beer and Buckjumpers

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David Thorpe
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby David Thorpe » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:11 pm

I have to confess that I've got a bit muddled in that I appear to have two different sizes of handrail knobs although, on purchasing them at different times, I thought I was getting the same! Both are "Markits Originals", ie with a 1.5mm ball and a larger hole. I have the label from one pack, M4HRK1.5, but contrary to expectation and indeed catalogue, these are actually marked as being 1.8mm long with a 1.5mm ball.

In the event, the handrails I used for this project are, in practice if not theory, 2.40mm long with a 1.5mm ball. Filed down as indicated previously, they are effectively 2.20 mm long. 15mm minus 4.4 = 10.6 which, as I said, will just about accept the gearbox but will not allow it to move.

(Had to break off here to go and watch "Top Gear". Decided that the new Ferrari's complex 4-wheel drive system isn't nearly as complicated as CSBs on a 2-4-2)

The other handrail knobs I have, also Markits with a 1.5mm ball, measure 2.00mm long, so if I'd used these they would in theory have been OK. Whether that would have applied in practice I'm very doubtful, at least where my workmanship is concerned - clearance of only 0.2mm would not IMO really be suffucient in a situation such as this.

I have a pack of HL blocks and carrier tags, but have not yet used them as I don't see how I can if I want a gearbox/Drivestretcher combo. I am rather hoping that Chris will come up with a solution to this difficulty.

DT

Clive Impey
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Clive Impey » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:40 pm

Davey T,

Have a go at modifying an HL gearbox it is not that hard really. If you have a disaster you will find Chris Gibbons sympathetic to those who experiment with his gearboxes and will let you have a replacement etch.

CliveLincs

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Russ Elliott » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:41 pm

DaveyTee wrote:I have a pack of HL blocks and carrier tags, but have not yet used them as I don't see how I can if I want a gearbox/Drivestretcher combo. I am rather hoping that Chris will come up with a solution to this difficulty.

There really isn't sufficient clearance within 15mm-spaced frames between H4MRKm knobs for boxes over 10mm width, but HL do a number of boxes (Roadrunner and Slimliner, the latter being available with drivestretcher options) that will cope.

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David Thorpe
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby David Thorpe » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:38 pm

Russ Elliott wrote:There really isn't sufficient clearance within 15mm-spaced frames between H4MRKm knobs for boxes over 10mm width, but HL do a number of boxes (Roadrunner and Slimliner, the latter being available with drivestretcher options) that will cope.

But not, unfortunately, with 80:1 gears. But of course, the problem only arises if the gearbox is in such a position that it fouls the fulcrum points. If I wasn't using the DriveStretcher, there would be no problem.

DT

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Flymo748
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Beer and Buckjumpers - Missenden 2012

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:37 am

And off for a weekend's modelling at Missenden Abbey :-)

Friday night saw the traditional setting up of workbenches and unpacking of kits. This is my travelling ensemble:

Bens Horse 002.jpg


And the kit that I will be making - a High level Y5 GER 0-4-0. Note printed pictures from the web that I can then scribble on to highlight the detailing that I need.

Bens Horse 003.jpg


Friday night is also a time to meet up with old friends. My group includes David Brandreth , John McAleely from my Area Group CHEAG, and Mark Tatlow (of Portchullin fame). Here is Mark looking for a place to call his own.

Bens Horse 001.jpg


Then after a spot of dinner (fish and chips, with it being Friday) it was down to a couple of hours modelling. And at the end of it, I had a laminated footplate (all done with a resistance soldering iron - thank you London Road Models) and a set of splashers. You wouldn't think it, but even with such small parts, using a set of GW Models rolling bars made forming the splashers really easy.

Bens Horse 005.jpg


Bens Horse 006.jpg


And that's progress so far! Now I'm wasting valuable modelling time, so more later...
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Flymo748
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Beer and Buckjumpers - soldering again...

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:39 pm

For the first time since Missenden, I have the chance to do some modelling :-)

This is how the body of my "Coffeepot" was left at the end of the weekend:

DSC_3626 (Large).JPG


Although it looks like a nasty accident has befallen the cab, it is actually supposed to be that way. Chris has designed a very clever way of accurately building the kit that uses a sub-frame over which a wrapper for the cab front, roof and rear is put into place.

It all locates using slots and tabs, and the only tricky bit is bending the curves at the front and rear of the roof. Even this gets a good tip from Chris - he suggests using a very faint scribed line on the outside of the bend so that the curve is made in the correct place - and he even etches reference marks on the fret to make sure that you get them in the right place...

So this is where I'll be starting from. Hopefully more pictures to show progress tomorrow!

Cheers
Flymo
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Flymo748
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Beer and Buckjumpers - an early start on the Y5

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:47 am

An early start to Saturday morning - all of those years of 6am alarm calls means that I find it impossible to stay asleep at weekends - saw me heading to the workbench for some soldering before the rest of the household woke.

Fortified with a strong coffee, my first task was to finish soldering the cab wrapper in place from where I left off last night. This was soldered in place around the seams, and the edges cleaned up. It's an almost perfect fit, with just a tiny excess around the edge to enable you to get it properly centred and fixed, and then a few strokes of the file mean that the base layer and the overlay are visually one.

After this, it is the cab sides - again in the form of overlays. In this case, I'm using my RSU to put them in place. It enables a really neat finish, and very controlled soldering. The first step, after removing the parts from the fret and cleaning off the (minuscule) tags, is to tin them. Here I'm using a thin layer of 188 solder paint, and wiping it on with a conventional iron.

Y5 Sat 1 002 (Large).jpg


High Level Kits make plentiful use of locating tabs to help you put everything together correctly, and in the right place. In this case, there is a convenient slot in the footplate that takes the tab that is just visible at the bottom of the cabside. I took two steps to help ensure that the parts located snugly:

- clean back any excess solder from the right-angle where the cab base layer meets the footplate so that the overlay can fit all the way down. This was done with the back of a scalpel blade as a scraper, then finished off with a fibreglass pencil

- ensure that the tab is slightly chamfered - a few gentle strokes with a file and nothing more - to enable it to enter into the slot easily.

Then it was the use of the RSU to work carefully around the cabside to put it into place, avoiding working to quickly so that there was no heat build-up and distortion.

Y5 Sat 1 004 (Large).jpg


Just visible in the front bottom corner of the overlay is a spot of solder that I used as a tack to ensure that the piece didn't move before I started using the RSU. This was then easily cleaned off once everything was securely in place.

Now on to the bunker fronts... And breakfast!

Flymo
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DougN
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby DougN » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:28 am

Looks like you are enjoying this one Paul!

Early mornings do have their uses as you suggest. I just find seeing 5 in front of anything in the morning is down right depressing :( as I seem to start earlier at the moment and finish later.... my progress is majorly reduced. I managed to get a DCC Chip in a 3F as the total modelling over the last fortnight!
Doug
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Flymo748
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Beer and Buckjumpers - cab completed

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:13 pm

Just a few quick photos showing the progress that I made earlier today:

Y5 Sun 1 002 (Large).jpg


Y5 Sun 1 004 (Large).jpg


Y5 Sun 1 005 (Large).jpg


Work commitments mean that I'm unlikely to get any modelling done in the next couple of weeks, but I'm looking forward to the next stage, which is making the saddletanks...

Until then!
Flymo
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Flymo748
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:18 pm

One of the joys of the internet is that it makes all sorts of things available to you from all sorts of sources, that you possibly never even knew existed before...

When returned on Friday from a business trip to Singapore, I found a package waiting for me...

Soldering 001.jpg


Lots of pretty coloured stamps on the outside! It was the contents of it that I was really interested in.

First up was a set of electronic tweezers. These (apologies for the rather blurred shot) are unusual in that they have plastic tips on them so that they don't short out electronic components. I was curious what they would be like.

Soldering 009.jpg


They don't have as fine a point as I expected. However the fact that the tips are made out of plastic will make them very useful when I file grooves in the ends of them to pick up what came out of package next...

Soldering 008.jpg


These are an assortment of small - that is a one pound coin for size comparison - glass vials containing balls of solder. I went for a "trial pack" which contains different size balls of sizes 0.75mm, 0.45mm and even 0.3mm. And there are 10,000 of each size in each vial!

When I saw these, I was amazed at the possibilities for really precision, clean soldering either using a conventional iron or more likely an RSU. These offer a really precise way to get as much or as little solder in the joint as you wish. I have no idea what they are used for in the electronics industry, yet to me they offer lots of possibilities.

And finally to the real reason why I had been browsing on Ebay:

Soldering 010.jpg


Small pipette bottles. For the last couple of years, Tim Watson has used these during his soldering tutorial at Missenden to hold flux. They allow it to be dispensed in a much more precise way than the traditional mucky paintbrush. Even Tim says that these are getting more scarce for him to find through his chosen trade of dentistry, so I thought that I'd have a look and see what the internet could throw up.

These cost not-a-lot each, and I got four of them. Each one comes with a variety of different sized nozzles so I'll see what gives the best control. And they should be a lot less messy when the inevitable happens and they get knocked over on the workbench!

What was perhaps even more impressive was that I ordered these last Sunday before I left, and they were waiting for me on Friday when I returned home. That's a turnaround time that many dommestic businesses can struggle to meet. It just reflects the impeccable service culture that I have found all over Asia.

Flymo
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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:41 pm

Can you give us the link for the pipette bottles please Paul?
Mark Tatlow

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Flymo748
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:48 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:Can you give us the link for the pipette bottles please Paul?


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... OU:GB:1123

Or search for seller "good-helper" (seriously!).

Did you get my VM about the drill press? I'm in 'Dam tomorrow but then around for the next few days...

Cheers
Flymo
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David B
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby David B » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:27 pm

Paul,

Your small pipette bottle appears to have a hypodermic needle as a spout. I was given one of Tim's small water bottles at Missenden and very useful it is, though it has become a bit incontinent, the seal around the spout not being great. The principle of a fine tube to deliver the flux is great and very economical.

However, I have gone for the hypodermic option, chopping a needle off square, and have found it to be brilliant for delivering small quantities of flux exactly where required. The needle actually fits inside the spout of Tim's water bottle (from which I replenish the syringe) which I now use as a small stock bottle - less to spill. The 1ml syringe lasts ages between refills.

David

Syringe_4189.jpg
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Flymo748
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Beer and Buckjumpers - the right tool...

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:16 pm

Every so often, having the correct tool for the job makes life so much easier.

The otherwise excellent instructions from High Level for their Coffee Pot kit refer to using a piece of wood to bend the inner of the saddle tank squarely up. Or you can do as I did and use a Hold-And-Fold tool.

Hold 001.jpg


Very easy, very accurate, and you should get perfect straight bends. It's one of those "investment tools" that you don't use every day, but when you do, you reflect on just how easy it makes things...

Flymo
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DougN
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby DougN » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:14 pm

Flymo, which one is it? I keep looking at the hold and folds but I am not sure which one would be best? I was looking at the 8"version is this the same as yours or is this too large? the 4"looks a little small. I guess the longest items I have been folding are D&S coach underframes and turn unders.
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Flymo748
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:24 am

DougN wrote:Flymo, which one is it? I keep looking at the hold and folds but I am not sure which one would be best? I was looking at the 8"version is this the same as yours or is this too large? the 4"looks a little small. I guess the longest items I have been folding are D&S coach underframes and turn unders.

Hi Doug,

This one is the 5.5" model...

It's been fine for me so far - I simply don't build things like modern coaching stock that would require a full 12" run.

i've got a few D&S six wheel coaches kicking around, and although I haven't unpacked the boxes yet, I expect that this would cope fine, or perhaps be just an insignificant bit too short so that it didn't really matter.

The new, improved ones from Eileens are a better design as well, as they don't require full dismantling to change the sides over.

HTH
Flymo
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Andy W
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Andy W » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:29 pm

Various small pipette bottles - along with model trees; moulding and resin materials; metals and plastics etc. are available from the 4D Model materials shop in Aldwich, East London. They cater for the architectural modelling trade. Lots of goodies in there.

http://www.modelshop.co.uk
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grovenor-2685
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:54 pm

People might have a problem finding it in Aldwych, the shop is in the railway arches approaching Fenchurch St. and is about 5 minutes walk East from DLR Tower Gateway station, or South from Aldgate East on the District line. Did you mean Aldgate?
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Aldwych,+London&hl=en&ll=51.511203,-0.068619&spn=0.001192,0.00284&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.598503,46.538086&oq=Aldwych&t=h&hnear=Aldwych,+London,+United+Kingdom&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.511274,-0.06864&panoid=6hbzpb3VboC7wA-LrnC5LA&cbp=12,242.51,,1,1
Regards
Keith
Nb. The Google link comes up as Aldwych because I used that as the search term and scrolled from there :D
Regards
Keith
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Flymo748
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:11 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:People might have a problem finding it in Aldwych, the shop is in the railway arches approaching Fenchurch St. and is about 5 minutes walk East from DLR Tower Gateway station, or South from Aldgate East on the District line.


Oh dear. Within walking distance of the office.

I have a feeling that is going to be *very* expensive :-/

Thanks for the link! That's a shop that I never knew about before...

Flymo
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Flymo748
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Beer and Buckjumpers - Great Balls of Solder

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:07 am

Or rather, very tiny ones...

After the arrival of my vials of solder from Hong Kong, I couldn't wait to try them out.

Solderball 002.jpg


This is the top of the saddletank of the Coffeepot about to be soldered into place.

- position parts for soldering on the RSU (which is why it is all silvery - that is tin foil used as the negative terminal)

- apply spot of flux using pipette bottle

- apply single 0.7mm ball of solder using tweezers

- place RSU probe, and press [on] switch

Zap... and a very neat join with no cleaning up required. I like this :-)

If anyone else is thinking of ordering these solder balls, I'll just confirm that for 4mm, the 0.7mm size seems just right. Anything smaller is just too damn fiddly to manipulate easily, although I can see that "pouring" them into place will work well in certain circumstances with the very smallest size.

Flymo
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Flymo748
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Beer and Buckjumpers - bending

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:23 pm

Both metal, and the rules :-)

But more of that later... First of all, this is how the saddletank has gone together so far. It's a very clever design idea. First you build a stout subframe that will keep everything square, and then you put the top and sides in place. These are held in place with etched tabs whilst you solder it together, and then file the tabs off after all is done.

This is the subframe assembled with the panel of the tank top already in place. This is located over vertical tabs which have been filed off leaving just the faintest of traces.

Tank 001.jpg


The horizontal tabs are left in place as they are used to locate the side panels of the tank.

This is the tank subframe from underneath. The plate with all of the holes in it acts as a reinforcing piece for the assembly. The multitude of holes is to enable you to easily solder it in place. I used an RSU to join them together, so it was less relevant for me, but if you are using a conventional iron, then you can flood solder through the holes.

Tank 002.jpg


Now this is where I started bending the rules, as well as the metal. Normally Chris's instructions in High Level Kits are absolutely spot on, and indeed they come with a sizeable health warning not to alter them and try to do your own thing.

However when it came to shaping the complex S-curve that makes up the sides of the tank, I felt a little nervous. The instructions state that you should anneal the panels prior to bending them. I'm never comfortable at my ability to anneal brass evenly, and to the right extent. Added to the facts that the panels themselves are already half-etched, and that I was not confident that the completed sides would not accidentally pick up dents in the softened metal, and alternative approach was needed.

So I started off by putting the gentle curves at the top of the tank in by pressing the metal around a largish diameter metal rod on to the mouse mat on my desk. Then I clamped the panel against the rod in my modelling vice, and used a further rod to gently ease it over, as in these pictures...

Tank 003.jpg


Tank 004.jpg


You can also see the gentle bend that I put in at the top of the tank from the pressure on the mouse mat.

Well, this may not be the recommended way to form the curves in the tank but I seem to have got away with it. This is the first panel fitted into place on the tank, and held in place only by the locating tabs.

Tank 005.jpg


Tank 007.jpg


I've now done the second side panel as well, and maybe later tonight I'll get chance to solder them in place.

Flymo
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DougN
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby DougN » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:17 am

Thanks Flymo about the 5" hold and fold. With good tools that are useful, and are not put away they repay them selves multiple times over. As we are watching the emergence of the Coffee pot from your work bench it makes me think to go and spend 10 minutes letting my Black hawthorn run back and forward. They are lovely to build.... i am just trying not to convince myself to go and purchase another of Chris's kits! :shock: .
Doug
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Will L
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Will L » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:57 am

Paul

When doing my coffee pot I have found the space between the cosmetic shaped tank sides and the square inner frame ideal for holding extra weight, but I did rather wish I'd thought harder about how to get it in there before I finished soldering it all together. I they are now sealed containers full of loose liquid lead but the way it was done wasn't very pretty.

Will

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Andy W
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Andy W » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:12 am

"Did you mean Aldgate?" Er yes, sorry - had a senior moment there! They do a "Forest in a box"; plus building details and figures - at various scales. Don't think you can pop in for a couple of minutes - allow a bit longer!
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Flymo748
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:50 am

Will L wrote:Paul

When doing my coffee pot I have found the space between the cosmetic shaped tank sides and the square inner frame ideal for holding extra weight, but I did rather wish I'd thought harder about how to get it in there before I finished soldering it all together. I they are now sealed containers full of loose liquid lead but the way it was done wasn't very pretty.


Hi Will,

Thanks for the tip. I might have a look at "ladling" a quantity of low-melt solder in there using a soldering iron.

Here's a quick update of the completed (but not yet detailed) tank. Not annealing the side panels and bending them in the approved manner doesn't appear to have affected the end result:

Tank-complete 004.jpg


And here is the tank in place in a trial fit on the locomotive:

Tank-complete 007.jpg


Cheers
Flymo
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