Beer and Buckjumpers

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Paul Willis
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Paul Willis » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:09 pm

Will L wrote:
Flymo748 wrote:. Consider me intrigued :-)
What are the plans for the "proper" railway?


I can't say there are real plans, as I can't actually see myself going it alone on a layout, but there are fantasies. Despite being born within smelling distance of Bletchley shed (LNWR/LMS), this all comes down to a GER cross country branch lines in one form or another. My wife was born in Sudbury. At the time we were courting, Stephen Poole started going on about little blue locos under a big blue sky and I fell in love with the railway as well.


I can understand that... I found the woman in Bristol, but despite having a dalliance with things Green With Rivets in the past, I've found living in the Herts/Essex/Cambs borders to be inspirational with bucolic villages and rural industry that have a real charm. It doesn't have to be big or fast (and the GER rarely was) to be interesting.

Will L wrote:I've considered Wells-Next-The-Sea which has a fascinating layout, but possesses both a layout logistical problem, as a terminus with lines in from three different directions (the third is the harbour branch), and an operational problem. For much of its history it didn't have a run round loop usable by passenger stock. Coaching stock was shunted by gravity.


You need to speak with Ted Scannell about his memory wire controlled working brakes on coaches... Wells is a nice prototype, and seems to have all of the features to be expected at a GER terminus. I would find that lack of run around frustrating though!

Will L wrote:Then there is Long Melford, or rather, the concept of Long Melford as a junction between two long distance single track cross country lines. Although the prototype is, as you might expect from the name, far too long, the actual junction intertwined with two lay by sidings is a gem. I would want to run a beefed up passenger service with some trains joining and dividing, some terminating and some just making connections. As a concept I have a worked through version in 00 which came out quite big, even with 3ft minimum curves. It would be bigger in P4.


Yes, but it does have the utterly typical three-way point and single slip combination. I do think that the GER had quite the most distictive trademark in trackwork, ranging from stations large to small, and both through and terminus. As you say, rather lengthy, although capturing that empty Fenland feel.

Will L wrote:Then there is Outwell Basin. Again the track is a gem and suits a corner site. This is a much more likely one man project, but as a tramway, very limited in terms of operation and stock, locos particularly. That said I have a loco and 4 coaches built and more in the kits awaiting attention pile. To do the job properly will need a lot of buildings, including a large church. There is an 00 version on the exhibition circuit at the moment. This captures the track work quite well but needs more of the buildings, particularly the Church.


This is the sort of thing that appeals to me. Trackwork and rolling stock insinuating its way into town and village. Expect to see some of this in the Horsley Bank inspired cabinet layout, and then onto bigger and better things. Outwell itself looks a little disjointed as a plan. Indeed more a tramway than a full railway. But it certainly has lots of potential for modelling of buildings, and the minutiae of rural life. It appeals to me :-)

Will L wrote:I've also wondered about Sudbury, as an interesting prototype again made to measure for a corner site and with a track work oddity; and Chapel and Wakes Colne as another junction where train services did divided/join etc. The track work at Chapel isn't very exciting but could be got into a relatively short space, assuming you ignore the best bit which is the adjacent huge viaduct. I've never seen a model of this but I have a feeling that, as a preservation site, it must have been done before.


Now Sudbury is one of the plans that I already have scanned in to my laptop for fiddling around with... It's a great triangular design overall with loads of interest in that sprawling goods yard, and the tiny engine shed tucked up in the corner. The passenger station itself is quite Plain Jane, yet can be the icing on top of lots and lots of movement in the goods yard behind.

Of all the suggestions, this is the one that appeals most to me personally. Apart for the physical shape, which as a large fan would need a devoted location to do it justice at home, then I think that it is also still (just!) within the limits of a single modeller enjoying himself.

Will L wrote:Well you did ask.


And thanks very much for sharing. You got me looking through backnumbers of the GE Journal in a new light. Good luck, and I look forward to seeing whatever finally emerges.

Flymo
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rule55
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers - Trouble comes in threes

Postby rule55 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:16 pm

Flymo748 wrote:I couldn't face a return to the computer last night, so it's a post-event write-up... They say that trouble comes in threes, and yesterday proved the truth of that. After the gearbox glitch, and the tender hornguide hiatus, came the soldering iron woes!

I thought that I'd do something very straightforward and knock up some wagon suspension for a little side-project (of which more in a couple of days time). I switched on my Antex TC660 soldering station, the "heating" light flashed once, and that was it :-(

Much switching on and off, dismantling, probing, etc, etc, and it still did exactly the the same. Flashed once for heating, the element got _slightly_ warm, and nothing more. My suspicions are that the temperature sensor in the element has died, so that it gets to the minimum level of heat (75 degrees C) and then switches off. Replacement elements are available, but not readily on a bank holiday evening....

Flymo


Hmmm,

Very strange this.

My Antex TC660 has just expired too - perhaps it's some weird Y2K thing that's a decade and a bit too late! It worked when I powered it up but, after struggling to tin the bit, I searched one or two fora (including this one) to see if I could find any tips [pun not intended] on tinning and found your post. Having decided to change the tip on my iron the red light on the soldering station no longer illuminates at all. I can only guess that I've somehow damaged the element when pulling the old tip off. I'll be very interested to hear if your problems are sorted with a new element.

I'll let you all get back on topic now!

Happy new year,

Tony

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Andy W
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Andy W » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:33 pm

When I replaced my iron a week or so ago (see another thread) I was told "NEVER grip the shaft of the iron with pliers or similar when sliding the tip off". Apparently this will usually damage the element. You can replace some elements, but for this you'll need - a soldering iron!
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby rule55 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:50 pm

Ealing wrote:When I replaced my iron a week or so ago (see another thread) I was told "NEVER grip the shaft of the iron with pliers or similar when sliding the tip off". Apparently this will usually damage the element. You can replace some elements, but for this you'll need - a soldering iron!


Oops!

Oh well, at least I know not to waste my time ordering up a new element - thanks for the head's up..

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Paul Willis
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers - Trouble comes in threes

Postby Paul Willis » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:59 pm

rule55 wrote:My Antex TC660 has just expired too - perhaps it's some weird Y2K thing that's a decade and a bit too late! It worked when I powered it up but, after struggling to tin the bit, I searched one or two fora (including this one) to see if I could find any tips [pun not intended] on tinning and found your post. Having decided to change the tip on my iron the red light on the soldering station no longer illuminates at all. I can only guess that I've somehow damaged the element when pulling the old tip off. I'll be very interested to hear if your problems are sorted with a new element.


Sorry to hear that. It really does seem the season for it...

I can see that it is a possibility that you damaged the element in getting the old tip off. There are four or five fine wires that are inside the handle, linking the element to the lead. I could imagine that a good tug on the element and bit together could snap one of these. Or it may be that the element was on its last legs, and when you had difficulty tinning it was as a result of the last breathes of the iron before it expired.

One thing that I've wondered about is using heatsink paste to mount the bits on an element. I have some kicking around in a tube from replacing a CPU on a motherboard after the smoke pixies escaped one day when it got too warm. It would certainly aid heat transference and help the overall efficiency of the iron. The question is whether at the temperatures that we use for modelling it would set into a cement, or otherwise degrade. That would be worse than using nothing at all.

Has anyone on here tried anything similar in the past? And has it worked...?

I'm hoping that it is just the element that has died on mine. Having opened the case on the control unit it all seems solid state in there. Unless something like a capacitor has died then all seems fine and/or unbreakable.

I can order a new TC660 element from Squires for thirty quid. I'll do that later in the week and hopefully be back to "old faithful" soon. I'll definitely share the outcome here.

Flymo

rule55 wrote:I'll let you all get back on topic now!


"The first rule of Fight Club..."

There is no "off topic" here! I post about whatever comes my way in my personal modelling world. Anyone else is welcome to respond with anything that is relevant (or from one or two of our members, irreverent) to what is being talked about.

So thanks for posting. I'll keep you informed on the Antex saga.

Flymo
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Paul Willis
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Paul Willis » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:04 pm

Ealing wrote:When I replaced my iron a week or so ago (see another thread) I was told "NEVER grip the shaft of the iron with pliers or similar when sliding the tip off". Apparently this will usually damage the element. You can replace some elements, but for this you'll need - a soldering iron!


This is what struck me when I dismantled my broken iron. I'm surprised (or maybe not) that what is sold as a consumer replaceable component is not more straightforward to swap.

I've got a couple of spare "garage" irons kicking around in (surprisingly) the garage where they get occasional use for motorbike wiring and suchlike. I could always press one of those into service to fix the Antex. However having got the Maplin unit, it seems very competent. I was happily using it for some modelling earlier this evening. So I'll see what I can do with that, and some resin cored solder.

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Paul Willis » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:10 pm

rule55 wrote:
Ealing wrote:When I replaced my iron a week or so ago (see another thread) I was told "NEVER grip the shaft of the iron with pliers or similar when sliding the tip off". Apparently this will usually damage the element. You can replace some elements, but for this you'll need - a soldering iron!


Oops!

Oh well, at least I know not to waste my time ordering up a new element - thanks for the head's up..


No spare soldering iron? Are you in an Area Group? Someone there must have an iron that you can borrow. Or failing that, an 18W electrical one for a tenner from Maplin or your local car spares place.

The reason that I suggest these is that a new TC660 seems to be upwards of £120 now, and probably more after the VAT changes. Compared to this, a new element seems positively reasonable.

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Will L
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Will L » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:28 pm

I've had this problem too, I'm not sure if it means the element has gone or the temperature detection circuit. But a new element is required!

As I wasn't certain how easy it would be to change the element I ordered both a new element and a whole spare iron to plug into the base station. Changing the element was easy, but then I have a small 25w Antex for wiring and light work. The result is that I now have two irons I can plug in to the base unit, so I keep different sized bits on each and very rarely need to change them.

Will

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Philip Hall » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:54 pm

Paul,

Squires 2011 catalogue shows the 660TC outfit at £89.95. I got mine from them a few years back when I saw they were, on average, £30 cheaper than most places. The catalogue quotes VAT at 15%, rather than 17.5%, but a 5% increase still brings it down to under £95.

As for taking old bits off the element, I usually slip off the clip and then gently ease the bit off with pliers. If it won't budge, then I put a screwdriver blade into the slot each side and lever it wider, then the bit should slip off. It does occur to me that this is likely to be easier with the softer pure copper bits I use, but I'm sure I've got Antex bits off in this way in the past.

Philip

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby rule55 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:32 am

After a quick google I've ordered a new TC50 iron for my Antex 660 TC soldering station for £21.95+VAT from Rapid and I note that Antex list replacement elements for the TC50 for £28.41 so I'm not feeling too hard done by. A spare iron sounds like a plan for the future tho'.

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Paul Willis » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:41 am

rule55 wrote:After a quick google I've ordered a new TC50 iron for my Antex 660 TC soldering station for £21.95+VAT from Rapid and I note that Antex list replacement elements for the TC50 for £28.41 so I'm not feeling too hard done by. A spare iron sounds like a plan for the future tho'.


Thanks for that! Order just submitted to Rapid :-)

As a spare iron actually came out cheaper (even after the £4.95 delivery charge) than just a spare element from Squires, then it was a no-brainer. Rapid hadn't come up through my own search for spare, so I appreciate the pointer.

Flymo
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David Thorpe

Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:47 am

If anyone is considering a decent spare soldering station, or wants a soldering station wiothout having to pay Antex prices, then I'd recommend the Aoyue 937 range. They do seem to have gone up in price recently, but should be available for about £40. Tips can be changed without any fuss in less than 30 seconds (and replacements are available at £2.24 each, so you can have a good range), the unit comes with a spare heating element just in case, and even a replacement iron is only £11.95. I got mine to replace an unreliable Maplin unit and have never regretted it. If you google it, you'll find that the unit generally gets excellent reviews, eg amazon.com.

Having made this recommendation, sod's law now suggests that mine will blow up sometime this week........

DT

HowardGWR

Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby HowardGWR » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:15 am

When I went to the Rapid site it kept sending me back to the home page when i clicked on the item. I registered as client but it still would not shew me any detail of an item nor, thus, its price.

Anyone got round this - what am I doing wrong? Regards, Howard

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Paul Willis » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:32 am

thomascpre wrote:When I went to the Rapid site it kept sending me back to the home page when i clicked on the item. I registered as client but it still would not shew me any detail of an item nor, thus, its price.

Anyone got round this - what am I doing wrong? Regards, Howard


Hi Howard,

I had the same :-/

It did that loop when I tried to look at the item in detail. However as I know what the iron is like, I just clicked on "buy" and it added it to the basket. The rest of the checkout process worked fine.

This route may not be an option if you want to examine an item in detail. You could always do the research elsewhere and just order through Rapid. Their prices seem to be very keen.

Flymo
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rule55
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby rule55 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:49 am

Flymo748 wrote:
rule55 wrote:After a quick google I've ordered a new TC50 iron for my Antex 660 TC soldering station for £21.95+VAT from Rapid and I note that Antex list replacement elements for the TC50 for £28.41 so I'm not feeling too hard done by. A spare iron sounds like a plan for the future tho'.


Thanks for that! Order just submitted to Rapid :-)

As a spare iron actually came out cheaper (even after the £4.95 delivery charge) than just a spare element from Squires, then it was a no-brainer. Rapid hadn't come up through my own search for spare, so I appreciate the pointer.

Flymo


It may be too late but orders over £30 are post-free and that's quite a hefty delivery charge for a soldering iron. I ordered an extra bit and some tip cleaner to get my order over £30.

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:07 am

Anyone got round this - what am I doing wrong? Regards, Howard

Same here, the site looks different from my previous usage just a few days ago and always worked perfectly before.
I suspect they've done a revamp and made a slip up.
Give it a couple of days and it should be fixed as I'm sure their phone will run hot tomorrow.
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Paul Willis
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Beer and Buckjumpers - Unexpected arrivals

Postby Paul Willis » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:41 pm

I went to the post office today to collect a parcel that couldn't be delivered earlier in the week. I thought that it might be a CD or two that I'd ordered recently. On opening it, I found:

- five D&S kits for Great Eastern 5 plank opens

- five D&S kits for Great Eastern cattle wagons

Kits 019.jpg


Thank you Dan Pinnock! He has a longstanding large order of mine, and every so often I get a mystery package turn up on the doorstep. Nothing is critical in timing, so it makes it even more pleasant when it happens.

What a top bloke :-)
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Chris Mitton
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Chris Mitton » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:29 pm

Hi Paul

First, belated thanks for your J15 / Y14 blog. I recently suffered a short spell in a cardiac ward, and came out to find your pics - and decided it was time to stop procrastinating and get my Gibson J15 and E4 off the shelf and start work, otherwise I'd end up running them on the Great Layout In The Sky - which I don't want to do, at least not yet..... So the E4 (you'd probably call it a T26!) is under way at last.

Like you, I've decided that CSB is the way to go and the High Level kit is the way to do it. Did you sort your problem re the tender hornblocks being too small for the cutouts? I rang High Level this week and asked him what would be his solution - he told me that he can supply the "standard" 1/8" blocks with a 2mm bore (although it's not an option on his website). As that was my theoretical solution, that's what I've ordered. That means the only really tricky bit of the CSB (apart from getting the weight distribution right) will be accurately extending the carriers for the leading axle. However, the "spacesaver" blocks are still "coming soon".

However, I don't think I need the narrow blocks. I've got a High Level gearbox, that the invoice swears blind is a RoadRunner Plus, for another loco (it looks much narrower than yours in the photo, though?). Having assembled the E4 frames, spacers and footplate (mostly with Blutack as yet!), I've convinced myself that I can get a Road Runner (but not a Road Runner Plus) between the axleboxes. The spacers are 15.18 mm wide, which with 18thou frames gives a gnat's whisker over 16mm frame width, and according to my maths leaves just enough sideplay to get through a B6 turnout (I've decided to treat the E4, suspension-wise, as a 0-6-0). The J15 (which appears to come from much older artwork) is a horse of a different colour, though - the allegedly P4 frame spacers supplied, which also serve for EM (!), are only about 13.8 wide. I think I'll adapt some from Jeremy's Stores, which are as near as dammit 15 mm. wide. Thanks for the warning!


I was also fascinated by your (and Will's) musings on GER stations (threatening to turn this thread into a GER love-in, and why not?) - especially Wells-Next-The-Sea. My own layout, being built painfully slowly, is based on Framlingham (but relocated to the Fens so it can be GE and GN Joint, for the usual personal history reason!). That also had no passenger run-round loop. I've worked out how I can work it - which will involve the E4 backing my rake of D&S GE corridors (when I get round to building them) through a B7 slip-and-tandem combination (ditto!) - that lot gives me some interesting construction challenges and should keep me busy for a few years! From the WTTs I've seen, working Framlingham would have been a distinctively leisurely affair (it needs to be with that layout), but one WTT shows a period when a mixed train got turned round in ten minutes flat - how that feat was achieved boggles the mind! (although fully signalled, there's no evidence the branch ever saw two engines at once). The Wells solution is definitely out - gravity seems to have been in short supply in those flat parts!

Has anyone thought of Halstead? Not strictly GER - the Colne Valley and Halstead stayed aloof until LNER days - but IIRC as the headquarters of a small independent railway it had everything, up to and including a loco works, crammed into a relatively compact site.

Again, thanks for the inspiration, now back to the soldering iron.....

Regards
Chris

HowardGWR

Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby HowardGWR » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:43 pm

I did not know Danny Pinnock was back in business. Is his catalogue online anywhere? Could not the Society do him a favour and put it online (the 4mm section at least)?

GER wagons were seen everywhere thus the interest of this GWR modeller. IIRC he does more than GER ones?? Regards, Howard

David Thorpe

Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby David Thorpe » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:34 pm

Chris,

Have you decided what axle you're going to drive? I've been building an E4, albeit with AG sprung hornblocks, not CSBs. I bought a RoadRunner+ gearbox and a Mashima motor, but pretty quickly found that that combination would not drive the rear axle as the cab got in the way. I therefore tried driving the front axle - it did all fit (eventually) with the motor going forward in the boiler at an awkward angle which made it hard to get in and out (I didn't want to cut away too much of the boiler). Also, it left little room in the boiler for weight. I therefore bought a Drive Stretcher from Highlevel which, when added to the Roadrunner+, enabled me to drive the rear axle with the motor in a rather more conventional and much more convenient horizontal position, leaving plenty of room for weight in the boiler. One snag, on the other hand, is that the DriveStretcher takes up quite a lot of lower chassis space, leaving me wondering where on earth I'm going to put the pickups for the driven wheels.

The DriveStretcher, incidentally, is 9.7mm wide where it sits between the frames, 1.0mm wider than the RoadRunner+ gearbox. It fits very neatly into the 10.4mm space left between the Gibson hornblocks.

DT

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Chris Mitton » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:06 pm

Hi DaveyTee, many thanks for the advice...

I've got a RoadRunnerPlus / Mashima 1224 combination which is earmarked for another loco - I tried this both with and without the Plus extension over my Isinglass drawing of the E4, and I convinced myself that a slightly smaller motor (1220) and the RoadRunner gearbox (without extension) could be made to fit, driving the leading coupled axle and with the motor sticking up, nearly vertical, into the firebox. As the RoadRunner is only 8.7 mm wide and centrally attached, it will fit (so far as I can tell) between the High Level boxes and also between the CSB springs. So I've ordered that combination from High Level - doubtless when they arrive I'll find I'm wrong! [A few minutes ago I read Will's latest episode in his J10 saga, and maybe it's all a bit more complicated than I suspected!]. As you say, it will be a bit crowded, and I'll have to improvise a mounting / torque reaction gizmo(s) and poke the pickups in somehow - but as this is my first P4 chassis I'm on a steepish learning curve! I daresay the engineers on this forum would say stuff the motor in the tender and cardan-shaft the rear axle, but I'm fairly confident my engineering resources (especially the bits between my ears!) aren't up to that challenge.....

Like you I'm a bit apprehensive about the weight distribution problem. I'm consoled by the fact that the real thing had a ton more on the front axle than either of the drivers, and that ran happily for sixty years!

I'll keep you posted in due course, thanks again for your help

Regards
Chris

David Thorpe

Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:30 pm

Hi Chris,

All being well, your 1220 should do what you suggest. I already had a 1224 when i started the kit and, as one does, I was determined to use it if possible. There wasn't enough room for it to fit in the way you're going to use your 1220. Since then I've acquired a 1220 for another kit and I'm pretty sure that you're right and that that will fit vertically in the E4.

If you have to shorten the shaft at all, be careful - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/23202-shortening-a-motor-shaft/

DT

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John Bateson
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby John Bateson » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:24 am

I have never had a problem with a Dremel and a carborundum disc, holding the shaft close to the motor with a pair of fine nosed pliers. I do though take several short cuts rather than a continuous one.
Razor saws and piercing saws will not touch this (as the RMWEB discussions indicates).
John
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martin goodall
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby martin goodall » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:57 pm

Chris Mitton wrote: I daresay the engineers on this forum would say stuff the motor in the tender and cardan-shaft the rear axle, but I'm fairly confident my engineering resources (especially the bits between my ears!) aren't up to that challenge.....


I am certainly not an engineer, but one thing I had always understood was that if you use a cardan shaft from the tender, it should drive on the middle axle, not the rear one. I have no idea why this should be so, but parhaps someone can enlighten us.

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Russ Elliott » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:23 pm

Cardan angles permitting, I can't see any reason why a particular axle should not be driven from a tender-originated cardan.


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