Beer and Buckjumpers

[essdee]

IMAG1361 - Copy.JPG

Hi Paul,

Here is a view of the workstation, only one perspex box in view but should illustrate the idea. Hope that helps

Steve

[Paul Willis]

Hi - and commiserations, I know the feeling only two well. I work on a confined desktop workstation (a version of the Rice 'Boite Formidable', of a few years back, though 'Crate Incroyable' is perhaps more accurate), and still suffer this too often.

Hi Steve

Yes, I remember those articles only too well. It's been a sort of much inspiration about how I organise my modelling, and also what constitutes a useful set of tools to hand.

A tip - it has reduced the incidence of the problem considerably. I always have 'work' and 'hobby' projects on the go at the same time, and find it invaluable to use small open or lidded perspex boxes about me, to store smaller items or sub assemblies. Over the last 20 months, my main build - SDJR 2-8-0 81 - has generated a maximum of six, but more usually four, such boxes of bits. At the end of the day shift I move the work project boxes to the side of the bench and bring on the evening shift stuff, and vice versa.

That's what I normally do, and indeed the Pug normally lives in "Work In Progress #1". WIP#2 contains some prototype masks for pinpoint bearings that I'm working on, and WIP#3 has the remains of a wagon that needs a major rebuild after a few too many house moves took their toll...

I get through a huge number of the Really Useful Boxes from Staples, in all possible sizes

Incidentally, I think it is essential these days, for those of us with competing calls on our time, to have a dedicated work area, and I would strongly recommend anyone to dig out Iain Rice's article and make their own 'Boite Formidable' - it saves a heck of a time in setting out and tidying up.

Absolutely!

As I do my modelling in a corner of the living room, I also have to have something to work in that is in keeping with the surroundings. What I did (and perhaps I'll do a full write-up one day) is to take an antique bureau and gut the insides. Then it was fitted with a cutting mat and a soldering mat, and my RSU and soldering iron, as well as small drawers.

Bureau03 (Medium).JPG

It all folds the front flap up when not in use.

My small tools all live in a restored engineer's chest. This normally sits on top of the bureau, but as it can all be packed away and the front put on it, it travels well. This was it in use at the chassis workshop at the recent Missenden Modellers Weekend.

Missenden workbench 2 (Medium).jpg

Perhaps someone here has the reference for Iain's article? I will dig out a shot or two of my own version and post here.

I know that the two articles can be found across two different issues of S4News. It will be on the web somewhere. I made my own (rough) copy in Word for reference.

Thanks for the kind words about the brakeshoe. You are absolutely correct that I'll find it the moment that I finish the replacement!

Cheers
Flymo

[essdee]

Paul,

Now that is a very neat arrangement. I daren't make a move on the living room - about the only usable room in the house I have yet to stuff with railway matter....I have a weaknesss for quality engineered chests, and have my great grandfather's writing slope in loft awawiting restoration. Wrong shape, but for wet holidays..........?

I note you use 188 solder paint/cream; I have a solidified pot around - any ideas on reviving it or is it junk ? I still get too much at a time on the iron tip using 188 wire solder.

Nice to see someone else's work area for inspration!

Look forward to seeing the Pug - I will shortly be amongst a similar construction for a pair of Radstock 'Dazzler' 0-4-0ST.

Cheers

Steve

[John Bateson]

I believe the "restored engineer's chest" is actually an item sourced from Harwell and distributed to all apprentices and starting engineers. I have an identical one sat on my own workbench, which in 1974 cost £40 - but that was in the days when research in physics had more money than sense.
Does yours glow in the dark ..........
There are a couple on eBay now for over £120.
John

[Jim Summers]

On this business of perspex boxes, I make a lot of use of Ferrero Rocher boxes, and they are are also handy for transporting models, wrapped in foam, to shows. Of course, as my wife says, I model to Ferrero Rocher scale . . . .

Jim

[Paul Willis]

Now that is a very neat arrangement. I daren't make a move on the living room - about the only usable room in the house I have yet to stuff with railway matter....I have a weakness for quality engineered chests, and have my great grandfather's writing slope in loft awaiting restoration. Wrong shape, but for wet holidays..........?

I have thought about using a writing slope (although not one of the nice ones that my wife collects!) as a toolbox but decided that it was too impractical - tools would move about when carried, worksurface wasn't level, etc. I can imagine that one would make a good box for painting and lining tools and work. Not too dissimilar to the original purpose in fact.

However, although going slightly OT, this is what I did with a old slope that I got off Ebay for a few quid as a "spares or repair" basket case. You know that the multitude of chargers that are needed for the necessities of modern life? Well they used to really annoy me, and get underfoot dangling from wall sockets until I did this...

The raw slope, in closed condition. Note the power lead snaking around from one side.

Slope 001.jpg

This is what is inside. Mobile, BlackBerry, and GPS are on charge already, and there are velcroed to the surface to stop them sliding around chargers for my DSLR and compact digital, as well as the rechargeable motorbike intercom sets.

Slope 003.jpg

And underneath the (removable) slope surface, this is what lies within... All of the cables are coiled so that you only get the minimum length needed above the surface, but they are still removable if I want to do something like take one away on holiday. There is room for a couple more gadgets to be added. I used to have an iPod charger in there until I bought a new hifi that had a dock and charger built into the top of it.

Slope 004.jpg

I lined the inside of the lid, where the second slope face was with green baize, left over from renovating my tool cabinet. Of course you can't keep the second slope in place as it would be exactly where the charging sockets need to be when the lid is closed. Excuse the state of it! Our cat likes to climb inside the box and sleep, even if he does spill out over the sides...

I note you use 188 solder paint/cream; I have a solidified pot around - any ideas on reviving it or is it junk ? I still get too much at a time on the iron tip using 188 wire solder.

I asked Brian Lewis for his advice on this, as my pot is about 20 years old (due to a fifteen year break whilst chasing motorcycles and riding women) and was going that way. His advice was to tip in Carrs Green Label flux and stir until it is back to a liquid state. Apparently this is the type that it is originally based on.

However, he did warn that if the paste has gone too solid, a chemical transformation takes place, and it is irretrievable

I hope that you catch yours just in time! It worked for me...

Nice to see someone else's work area for inspiration!

Cheers! You might have inspired me to write a few more words about it in a future instalment...

Flymo

[Paul Willis]

I believe the "restored engineer's chest" is actually an item sourced from Harwell and distributed to all apprentices and starting engineers. I have an identical one sat on my own workbench, which in 1974 cost £40 - but that was in the days when research in physics had more money than sense.
Does yours glow in the dark ..........
There are a couple on eBay now for over £120.
John

Mine cost twenty quid in an unrestored state from the local antiques centre. It was absolutely filthy, covered in oil and swarf ingrained in the varnish, and with no handle on top.

However I could tell that it was quality construction as all of the drawers actually run on roller bearing slides

So I spent two solid evenings sitting on the sofa with a tube of Autosol Metal Polish and literally rubbed the grime away until it brought back the original shine. That included the knobs and even the metal drawer slides. The only bit that needed re-varnishing was the front "lid" which I did in yacht varnish for toughness.

The drawers were relined in fresh baize, having removed the original grimy stuff, and a leather strap handle sourced from an online saddlery store.

And as Guy Martin says, job's a good 'un!

Flymo

[Paul Willis]

Brakehangers that is.

This was the brakehanger that remained, and I wished to copy. The scrap nickel silver is a OO spacer from the kit, so the correct thickness and also surplus to requirements.

Brakeshoes 002 (Large).jpg

I used my Resistance Soldering Unit to attach the hanger to the scrap. Using a RSU was ideal for this, as I could "spot weld" the parts together and no risk the completed brakehanger de-laminating or otherwise losing parts.

Brakeshoes 003 (Large).jpg

I then took a piercing saw and fretted around the outline of the master and whilst they were still soldered together used the holes for the brake rodding to drill through into the new part to get them properly aligned. When this was done, I carefully slid a scalpel blade between the old and new components and gently heating them with a conventional iron split them apart.

All that I had to do after that was to drill a small hole in the centre for the piece of wire to represent the brakeshoe retaining pin, and solder in a small piece of wire. Unfortunately at this point a no.78 drill was lost in action, but we all get casualties from time to time.

A spot of cleaning up with a file and these are the finished articles. The re-manufactured one is at the front. Not quite as neat as the original etching, but the day has been saved

Brakeshoes 004 (Large).jpg

[Paul Willis]

I thought that I would make a final post of the chassis construction for the Pug. The reason for doing so is that this is the last time that it will be seen in this state of raw metal.

progress 005 (Large).jpg

The next instructions ar "break the chassis down into its sub-assemblies [done, as you can see] and paint it". So I lose all of that lovely shiny nickel silver, and start to gain something that looks like a proper locomotive

In case you were wondering about the slightly mangled looking brake gear, it isn't broken or mis-assembled. Chris at High Level has used a very ingenious design to make the entire brake gear removable from the completed chassis.

There are "carrying tubes" that run through the chassis frames, and through each of these passes a loose wire. From this the soldered up brake rigging hangs. The fact that it is soldered means that it all stays in alignment with the wheels as a single unit. The seemingly misaligned wire at the far left is actually just one of the loose mounting wires that I hadn't tucked properly back in place. You are even told to put a slight curve in the length of the mounting wires to ensure that friction holds them in place.

I've yet to see the instructions for final mounting of the brake gear, but I may well put a small blob of black paint on the ends of them to fix them securely, yet in a manner that can be easily detached, for extra security.

In the meantime, it will be off with the wheels, a final clean in the ultrasonic bath, and into the paintshop...

[Paul Willis]

...or anywhere else for that matter.

As part of my P4 demonstration track, I've planned to show various different types of trackwork construction. A rough plan of it shows what I mean:

Demo Board diagram.jpg

Part of it is to link a P4Track Company B8 kit into the three-way point made from ply & rivet. I'd made the B8 a couple of weeks ago without problem. Last night I finished riveting the ply sleepers, a tedious task at the best of times, and started laying them out on the template:

Workbench 006 (Large).jpg

Unfortunately, when I looked at it the difference in height between the plastic sleepers and ply sleepers was more significant than I expected:

Workbench 007 (Large).jpg

I'll just have to work with that, laying the ply onto a thick card trackbase. Once bitten, twice shy, and I'll not attempt to mix the two types like this in future. I recommend that you do the same!

Also, the act of laying down the sleepers showed that I'd missed out punching and fitting one rivet. It's right in the middle of the point, at the end of the wing rail. I thought momentarily about making another sleeper, but then realised that I could just use one of my spare P4Track Co. plastic chairs to fix the end in place.

Workbench 009 (Large).jpg

So that's a solution that saves the situation and will produce a good cosmetic effect. Next stage is to start making the crossing vees.

[Chris Mitton]

Hi Paul

I nearly made that mistake, but then discovered the timbers from the P4 Track Company, which are the right thickness (1.6 mm, same as their sleepers and also Brian Lewis's at C&L). Unfortunately you can't then rivet them, unless you know a source of long rivets (do they exist?). Plan B is to rivet the timbers then glue another thickness of timber underneath - they are then the same 1.6 mm thickness - however I tried a few of these and they're a PITA. PVA "unbonds" at well below soldering temperature so unless you're quick with the iron they'll split in two, and EvoStik makes an awful mess unless you're much less cack-handed than me.
My instinct is not to rivet at all - since you've got to end up with lots of cosmetically-bashed chairs and Butanone, why not short-circuit the entire process by using the chairs structurally, and intact where they fit - IMHO and (so far) limited experience the butanone / ply bond is more than strong enough.

Regards
Chris

[Paul Willis]

I nearly made that mistake, but then discovered the timbers from the P4 Track Company, which are the right thickness (1.6 mm, same as their sleepers and also Brian Lewis's at C&L). Unfortunately you can't then rivet them, unless you know a source of long rivets (do they exist?). Plan B is to rivet the timbers then glue another thickness of timber underneath - they are then the same 1.6 mm thickness - however I tried a few of these and they're a PITA. PVA "unbonds" at well below soldering temperature so unless you're quick with the iron they'll split in two, and EvoStik makes an awful mess unless you're much less cack-handed than me.

A good suggestion - to double the thickness up with more sleepers underneath. Unfortunately that would only move the disconnect further along to a different piece of trackwork

I have made this rod entirely for my own back, as you will have seen from the track diagram that the intention is to demonstrate all of the different methods of track construction possible in P4, and as such it was inevitable that there would be some differences. It's just that the difference was slightly larger than I'd expected.

My instinct is not to rivet at all - since you've got to end up with lots of cosmetically-bashed chairs and Butanone, why not short-circuit the entire process by using the chairs structurally, and intact where they fit - IMHO and (so far) limited experience the butanone / ply bond is more than strong enough.

I do completely agree. The primary reason for mix-and-match was as I've explained already, but also I have a huge stock of ply and rivet components from when it was the only game in town...

If I was starting from scratch these days I would be mainly using the plastic based components for speed and accuracy. That said, I think that there will always be a place for ply and rivet when building bespoke formations, such as those designed by Templot or in non-standard sizes. I just wouldn't try and make the ply/plastic join in the middle of a formation in future!

Cheers
Flymo

[John Bateson]

I also preferred the mix-n-match idea and prepared some templates so I could get someconsistency across the layout

[Rustyrail]

Don't despair Paul!

As you know I too will be using a mixture of thick plastic sleepers and thin ply ones (turnouts and plain track); I always anticipated that there would need to be a fair bit of tinkering with their respective heights. As to bases I will utilise thin cork sheet, and maybe at a push, balsa wood or good quality card (the latter two secured with a suitable non warping glue). After the relative complexity of constructing the track itself, this side of the layout building process does not bother me and I will find a way willy nilly, of getting what I want. The thinking behind my sleeper depth variations was so that I could represent under ballasted track in places (with lots of weeds!) exposing more of the timbers to the viewer.

Cheers
Simon

[Paul Willis]

Oh, I'm not going to despair. That's just not in my nature

I'm just pointing out the pits and traps that I fall into for the better knowledge of others to avoid them doing the same...

I was aware that the different sleeper depths would be an issue, but I didn't think through the consequences fully. Better planning would definitely have helped. I wanted to build the P4TCo kit as a unit so that I would be in a position to speak knowledgeably about it if I was asked in future. That part was successful, as it was both easy to build and excellent in appearance.

However I shouldn't have treated it as separate to the whole formation. It would have been better if I'd planned the ply and rivet track around it and built it together as a combined unit. As it is, I have to go back to the assembled point and remove four sleepers worth of rail to insert a crossing vee into the three-way. I'll be stocking up on slitting discs from Eileen's at the Epsom Show this weekend...

It is perfectly possible to assemble a three-way point entirely from P4TrackCo components. Terry Bendall has done so, and very successful it is too. He asked them for a mixture of components that effectively made a "home-made kit" and that is certainly something to consider in the future.

I completely agree that the variety of prototype track cries out for indivualised treatment, and the approach that you're taking sounds spot-on. Period photos of the 1910 GER show everything from ash ballast up to the railhead to full depth timbering exposed, depending on the location and function of the track. The GERS Journal has a lovely picture of the approaches to Braintree station that just cries out to be modelled. There is a wonderfully convoluted and typically Great Eastern piece of pointwork that is all just to avoid one more facing point lock. Now I need to find how to get it into a layout plan

Flymo

[Paul Willis]

Elsewhere on the Forum, I have asked about the use of metal black as a preparation for painting, so thanks to all for the interest and the comments in reply.

Well, firstly, I started off by giving all of the parts that were going to be treated a good going over with Carr's Acidip to chemically clean the surfaces thoroughly, and to get rid of any traces of flux, dirt and so on. After this, it was into some plain water in my wife's jewellery cleaning ultrasonic tank...

Workbench 2 005.jpg

This always does a superb job at making any remaining grime and noxious substances literally fall off the model. You can even see the slightly cloudy water streaming away from the model when you switch the machine on. And she is happy as well if you offer to clean her rings at the same time - although preferably without the application of Acidip!

After this, the parts were popped on some kitchen paper in a box to keep the dust off them and left to dry thoroughly in the sun. Such are the joys of modelling in the summer.

After this, I reached for the Casey's Gunblue, and applied it with the end of a cotton bud. Unfortunately this was the result - distinctly patchy.

Patchy 003 (Large).jpg

I'm not quite sure why. The model wasn't handled at all after cleaning, and was perfectly dry. I can only hypothesize that it was variations in the grades of nickel silver that made the difference.

Either way, I followed it up with a thin coating of etch primer, sprayed on, to ensure that the paint would adhere properly. I'd washed the remains of the gunblue off with plain water so the surface for the primer was clean again.

So quite a disappointing result. I still see the merits of using blackening on the edges of models to ensure that any paint chips won't be so obvious. That makes a lot of sense, and I'll be doing it in limited circumstances. I also suspect that the gunblue will "take" better on brass than on nickel silver, so I haven't given up all hope of this method.

I thought that I'd post the results so that you can all see what the outcome was, and perhaps add your own thoughts or experiences later on to the Forum.

[iak]

I also preferred the mix-n-match idea and prepared some templates so I could get someconsistency across the layout

Interesting...

[Paul Willis]

I was chatting with Steve Duckworth a couple of weeks ago at Scalefour North. We were comparing various tools and techniques, and the ways that we can model better. I commented on a little change that I have made, and Steve suggested that it was worth sharing.

How many times have you picked up the wrong file? You know the situation - you're doing some heavy-duty removal of whitemetal from a wagon underframe, you reach into the box or rack and pick up your very best fine-cut needle file, usually only reserved for stroking the olive-skinned thighs of Sicilian virgins, and High Level Kits' hornblocks...

Usually you only notice about five milliseconds after you've used it... There is a cry of "oh dear" and an attempt using file-combs/heat/scalpel tips to remove the shiny stuff that you've just clagged the teeth up with. A waste of modelling time, and never fully successful. I did this several times until I hit on a simple approach that won't prevent it, but will make it much less likely.

This is the box that my needle files live in...

Files 006.jpg

And this is how I tell them apart...

Files 007.jpg

I picked up a bottle of Tippex correction fluid, and now the white-handled files are the ones for WHITEmetal (and solder, lead and other clagging materials)

A Black permanent market pen indicate the file is for Brass, as well as nickel silver, steel and so on.

And the yellow handled one? Not for gold, but my scriber. Because it *looks* like a needle file, I kept picking it up by mistake to file things, and used rats-tail files inadvertently as scribers...

As Aleksandr would say, "Simples!".

Flymo

[nigelcliffe]

I'm fairly certain that engineering books advise against keeping files with their teeth knocking bits off each other.
I'd wrap the best ones, or put them in wallet cards within the box.

Ten years ago, a 2mm member from Canada wrote a long article on files, its on the 2mm website:
http://www.2mm.org.uk/mag2000/files.htm


- Nigel

[Paul Willis]

I'm fairly certain that engineering books advise against keeping files with their teeth knocking bits off each other.
I'd wrap the best ones, or put them in wallet cards within the box.

Thanks very much for the advice, but I don't think that _any_ of my files are sufficiently good quality to worry overly about them. They are aged, and gradually wearing out. If I can keep the best ones in reasonable nick whilst they put in some service, I'll be pleased.

Ten years ago, a 2mm member from Canada wrote a long article on files, its on the 2mm website:
http://www.2mm.org.uk/mag2000/files.htm

That is a superb article. I'd recommend it to anyone that was interested in getting the proper tools for the job. I work only ten minutes walk from Hatton Garden, and when I do decide to get some new files, I'll be following that advice very closely. And keeping the new files separate from each other

Flymo

[Dave K]

Well, firstly, I started off by giving all of the parts that were going to be treated a good going over with Carr's Acidip to chemically clean the surfaces thoroughly, and to get rid of any traces of flux, dirt and so on. After this, it was into some plain water in my wife's jewellery cleaning ultrasonic tank...

Workbench 2 005.jpg

This always does a superb job at making any remaining grime and noxious substances literally fall off the model. You can even see the slightly cloudy water streaming away from the model when you switch the machine on. And she is happy as well if you offer to clean her rings at the same time - although preferably without the application of Acidip!

I keep meaning to get myself an ultrasonic cleaner and have found one on eBay. Am I correct that you have put the plastic parts as well as the metal in the tank.

[Paul Willis]

I keep meaning to get myself an ultrasonic cleaner and have found one on eBay. Am I correct that you have put the plastic parts as well as the metal in the tank.

Absolutely. It does them no harm at all (assuming that you're using water as the washing liquid, and not Mek/turps/petrol) as the cleaning works by vibration and not friction.

The only things that I would be wary of would be assemblies with steel components. I'm comfortable putting the Pug chassis with a steel rocking bar for the compensated axle into the tank as it only gives light surface rust and isn't going to affect or contaminate anything else. However I certainly wouldn't put in sprung hornblocks or wagons with sprung buffers.

BTW, if you don't get one from ebay, Maplin was where mine^H^H^H^Anne's came from and only cost about twenty quid in one of their periodic promotions.

Flymo

[Paul Willis]

It's been a while since I was able to find the time for some modelling, but I have been getting things ready for a final assembly session on the Pug. To say that I'm slightly nervous about the clearances of the coupling rods behind the crossheads is rather an understatement...

I've found that during building this kit, being organised has always been essential. Witness the case of the missing brake hanger as an example.

So when it came down to taking the Pug apart for painting I didn't want to mess up all of the neatly and precisely matched components that I had prepared earlier. During previous stages each bearing, axle and what had been washed with a code of coloured dots to indicate their position in the chassis. Also critical was getting the correct thickness of washers behind each wheel, as there is not a huge amount of space to fit the clearances to the connecting rods in, and free play must be kept to an absolute minimum.

I then used the back of an old business card to mark out the respective positions of all of the components. The picture below illustrates:

Chassis organised.jpg

Of course, the knack now is to not knock them on the floor!

Flymo

[Paul Willis]

Or, to put it another way, does anyone know and effective method of removing Loctite 601?

In a burst of enthusiasm (okay, free time) on Friday and today, I finished off the Pug mechanically. This has not been without its trials and tribulations... In particular, it's only after assembling the whole thing that I found that there wasn't enough running clearance for the connecting rods to oscillate as needed between the original slidebars. Cue careful use of a dremel.

But the problem that I now have is this. Having followed the instructions to the letter, I tested everything out, and fixed the final drive gear on the driven axle with a tiny smear of superglue. This done, and suitably cured, I set it running on my rolling road.

After five minutes, the gentle whirr of the motor continues, but the rotation of the wheels stops. The gear wheel has slipped on the axle. It could actually be moved easily from side to side within the gear box.

So this time I reached for the Loctite 601, and intended to leave it to set firmly overnight. However, to avoid getting 601 where it wasn't needed, and knowing that it sets slowly, I applied some to the gear wheel with it in the middle of the gearbox and well away from anything else. I then intended to slide the gear wheel sideways until it meshed with the drive gear. You can tell what happened next...

Instant bonding. How come 601 never works this way with wheels? Whether it was because the axle was warm, I don't know, but what should have been fifteen minutes of adjustment room was changed into instantly setting solid with the gearwheel in the wrong place.

I've tried a little physical persuasion and it hasn't budged. The alternative to loosening the glue is to dismantle most of the chassis - not something I'm pleased with contemplating.

Can anyone suggest a non-destructive way of freeing off Loctite 601?

Flymo

[Will L]

Get it hot Paul, it brakes down above 150 C. Could be tricky if you assembled the chassis with 144 degrees solder but it is losing strength before it gets to 150. Google Loctite 601 for data sheets

Will