Beer and Buckjumpers

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Flymo748
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Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:58 pm

Welcome!

Welcome to my trials and tribulations, musings and mutterings, successes and failures, as I try to remember how to model in P4 after a gap of more than ten years of idle armchair occupation.

Why Beer and Buckjumpers?

The Buckjumpers bit sort of suggested itself. Wherever I’ve lived, the local railway history has always attracted me – from the bucolic GWR branchlines of Worcestershire to the gritty LNWR environs of West Yorkshire I’ve been interested in the industrial archaeology of my surroundings. Now that I’m living on the Herts/Essex/Cambs borders, the byways and eccentricities of the Great Eastern Railway have caught my eye.

And the Beer? Well, mine’s a pint thank you. I wasn’t aware of brewery railways until recently, but since then I’ve found it a fascinating topic to research. You will read more about the background to my small bit of hypothetical history in future, but for now it gives me the opportunity for some industrial light railway quirkiness, a genuine purpose to a timetable and wagon movements, and some incredibly photogenic buildings.

This “layout” thread will take some random turns as it progresses. To start with, there is no layout – only some ideas and images floating around in my head. There’s also a backlog of past misdemeanours to correct, so watch out for what (with very due cause) I’m entitling “The Restoration Chronicles”.

And there’s a blog as well - http://beerandbuckjumpers.blogspot.com/

This is intended to compliment what I write here, and accommodate some of my more general musings as well. Please feel free to come over and follow it. If you set up an RSS feed (if you’re an adult, ask a small child how to do this…) then you’ll see when something new is posted.

So for now, I’m off to start some modelling.
Flymo
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Flymo748
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The Restoration Chronicles - LNWR 2-plank wagon

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:51 pm

First on the workbench, and number 1 in my fleet of somewhat eclectically recorded list of vehicles is an LNWR two-plank permanent way wagon. This was built from the Ratio four-pack of wagons which I believe is still available.
To fit in with the permanent way purpose of the wagon, it is part-loaded with some C&L chairs, doing the job of covering up the lead sheet with which it is weighted.

LNWR-2-plank#1.JPG
LNWR-2-plank#1.JPG (49.81 KiB) Viewed 18059 times


So, what needs restoring? Initially, the diagnosis is quite promising:

- all of the buffers have survived, and are still freely sprung. No work needed there.

- The single sided brake gear is intact. Looking at it end-on, the lever guard is angled in slightly at the bottom, and could do with correction. I suspect that is a construction error that I made when I originally built this. Something to correct though, if possible.

- The wagon is fitted with compensated w-irons – de rigueur at the time that it was built. However the rocking one could do with a little bit of tightening up to stop it being quite so floppy. I think that I can get away with better trackbuilding, and less suspension movement in future. I suspect that my earlier attempts were overly influenced by the words of Iain Rice and his preference for light railway quality permanent way.

- even the bump stops that exist to protect the brake gear from the weight of the wagon side as it swings down are intact. On both sides. Which raises an interesting question.
Even if the long-lost kit instructions explained it, would bump stops (and the corresponding bash-plates be found on the wagon side that doesn’t have brake gear that needs protecting? My guess would be that yes, it does, as the stops would also stop damage to the axleboxes by the side swinging into them.
I’ll have to look for a prototype photograph to make sure…

Things that definitely do need work include replacing a number of the chairs where they have fallen off over the years.

Also, and this is the biggest problem of all, an aerial view shows that where I have piled the chairs against the side of the wagon, and glued them in place, the solvent has made the wagon side bow in. This really does need straightening out to be convincing.

LNWR-2-plank-bowed.JPG
LNWR-2-plank-bowed.JPG (38.08 KiB) Viewed 18048 times


The issue of coupling standards also needs to be addressed. More on the coupling dilemma at a future date, but even though the Sprat & Winkles on this have survived, I need to consider if they are of the right dimension for the future.
Enough typing for now. Time to pick up a knife and start work…
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MarkS
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby MarkS » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:46 am

Hey Flymo, couldn't resist the title, so here is a picture of my "restored" (from OO) Buckjumper, current pride of the line on the Upper Leaside light railway branch.
Keep up the thread, it's good to know that others have similar trials and tribulations on their path to P4 nirvana...



Attachments
buckjumper.jpg
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Cheers,

Mark.
"In the end, when all is said and done, more will have been said than done..."

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Flymo748
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:56 pm

MarkS wrote:Hey Flymo, couldn't resist the title, so here is a picture of my "restored" (from OO) Buckjumper, current pride of the line on the Upper Leaside light railway branch.

Very nice :-)

I have one (or possibly two!) unmade of the Connoisseur Kits for a J68, from the days when they used to sell a 4mm version, shot down from the 7mm artwork. It's tucked away at the bottom of my "kits" drawer in my modelling bureau.

But I suspect that I'll first get started on a High Level Kits model of a Coffee Pot. Simply because it looks such a lovely prototype :-)

MarkS wrote:Keep up the thread, it's good to know that others have similar trials and tribulations on their path to P4 nirvana...


Oh, I'll certainly keep it going, and the blog as well, as it acts as a real impetus to get things moving. I *have* started restoration work on the LNWR PWD wagon, but I've hit a wee snag. More in the next post...

Flymo
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The Restoration Chronicles - A pause for thought

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:15 pm

In my last post, I was thinking that the greatest hurdle to overcome in restoring the LNWR two plank wagon would be to return the warped dropsides to some form of straightness. Wrong! I've actually made pretty good progress on that particular task, and they only need a final bit of tweaking (I can't decide whether by the use of solvent, or a carefully waved soldering iron) to get there.

The biggest problem has been to find out what the wagon actually is...

I know that it comes from the Ratio set of four permanent way wagons - I even have an unmade set of the same at home, sitting here next to me. The problem comes that the kit instructions are brief to the extent of not even including any prototype details. They give an LMS painting scheme from 1923 to 1947, and that's it!

I emailed Peco today, as they now seem to be the manufacturers of the Ratio range, and had the helpful response: "Thank you for your Email. Unfortunately we do not have any extra information other than the details supplied with these kits."

So a blank there. I have a copy of the excellent "LNWR Wagons Volume 1" but this only covers the main commercial types of wagon. I assume that the departmental and more esoteric stock was intended to be left for Volume 2. Nevertheless, Appendix 2 of Volume 1 gives me some clues.

There is a ballast wagon listed with a 16ft body (which the kit scales out at) under Diagram 62. However even the very useful LNWR website <http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Wagons/open/OpenWagons.php> doesn't list this diagram.

So does anyone else know what the correct prototype for the Ratio kit actually is???
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The Restoration Chronicles - Brute force and ignorance

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:24 am

Well, it's been a while... The combination of stupidly long hours at work and a couple of scheduled holidays mean that it's been far too long since I did any modelling. After a couple of days riding motorbikes around Cadwell Park in Lincolnshire, I now ache too much to do anything more than a bit of gentle modelling.

The brute force is the way that I finally decided to restore the wagon sides to near-straightness. I have decided that if I try and use heat or more solvents, then I just risk making things worse. So I have slid a knife blade down to separate the sides from the lead flashing that is inside the wagin and provides some weight. After this, I've gently eased the sides out with my fingers, and it seems to have worked. What I will do is put a couple of slivers of plastic card down into the newly created gaps to pack them out, and add a plastic cross-brace across the middle as well. Hopefully this will be sufficient to maintain things in a linear fashion.

And the ignorance? Well, I'm still ignorant about exactly what diagram of LNWR wagon this represents. More fundamentally, when on earth was a Permanent Way Department wagon doing on a Great Eastern branchline in the Herts/Essex borders?

So with that as a thought, and in order to avoid the side-warping effects of Daywat Poly on normal plastic mouldings, I've decided that I'm not going to try and replace the C&L chairs that were previously the load. There are a couple still firmly glued to the floor, but the rest have been levered off the lead flashing and thrown away.

There will be a couple of LNWR wagon sheets used to cover the weights, and the reason why it is traversing Essex? Well, it had a hot box and had to be diverted to the nearest repair shop, which happened to be on the GER. Simple!
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johnWM
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby johnWM » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:39 pm

Hi

According to the reference below, the most common early LNWR wagons were 1 plank and 2 plank open wagons. Prior to 1898 15’6” over headstocks, and 16’ after this date. Quite a few 2 plankers must have been built. Only some will have had drop sides.

http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/00-app2/lms/lnwr.htm

This reference includes some information on 2 plank LNWR drop sided wagons. The paragraph below the LNWR wagon diagrams is the relevant bit. Apparently they were built initially for slate traffic. Presumably some were later put into PW dept use, hence the ratio kit, some may have gone into general use, scrapped sold off (my speculation). Perhaps one or two were sold to a GE brewery for moving empty beer casks around?!? Can anyone prove that that didn’t happen?

There is also a sketch diagram. (the top of the first picture you come to as you scroll down the page) This can be found at.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/2-track/02track4.htm

I just stumbled on this information, but thought it might be useful.

John

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers - LNWR mysteries

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:51 pm

johnWM wrote:According to the reference below, the most common early LNWR wagons were 1 plank and 2 plank open wagons. Prior to 1898 15’6” over headstocks, and 16’ after this date. Quite a few 2 plankers must have been built. Only some will have had drop sides.
http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/00-app2/lms/lnwr.htm

A quick wave of the ruler shows that it's 64mm over the headstocks, so that's 16' post-1898 diagram. The link that you gave, whilst a useful reference, isn't this, as it shows a 15'6" wagon, and with fixed sides and not drop sides by the look of the corner plates.

johnWM wrote:This reference includes some information on 2 plank LNWR drop sided wagons. The paragraph below the LNWR wagon diagrams is the relevant bit. Apparently they were built initially for slate traffic. Presumably some were later put into PW dept use, hence the ratio kit, some may have gone into general use, scrapped sold off (my speculation). Perhaps one or two were sold to a GE brewery for moving empty beer casks around?!? Can anyone prove that that didn’t happen?

I like the hypothesis ;-)

johnWM wrote:There is also a sketch diagram. (the top of the first picture you come to as you scroll down the page) This can be found at.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/2-track/02track4.htm
I just stumbled on this information, but thought it might be useful.

The information is indeed very useful to have, and I've bookmarked it as a reference. However again I think that we're looking at a different diagram. The slate wagons that you refer to are the Diagram 7 ones (pp 74-5 of LNWR Wagons Vol. 1) and again are 15'6" length.

They have the same pattern of ironwork on the sides, but the Ratio kit has the wooden stanchions on the ends extending up above the level of the top plank, whereas the Dia.7 has them below the level and with sloping tops. Unfortunately I still think that I'm looking for a dedicated engineering department diagram that I don't have an illustration of :-(

Thanks for all of the research though, it's much appreciated.
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Beer and Buckjumpers - Paranoid? Moi?

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:14 am

We've all heard occasional stories of tyres becoming detached from wheel rims in use. Less frequently mentioned, but probably more prevalent is the chance of a wheelset moving around on an axle during use. Well, I've decided that I'll try and eliminate that risk.

So after double checking each wheelset with a Scalefour Society gauge, I'm applying a tiny smear of superglue to the join between the back of the spokes and the axle. Hopefully that means that they will stay set in place, and one more variable that can cause problems with consistent running is removed.

Something to make it onto my "building checklist", of which more anon...

Flymo
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Re: The Restoration Chronicles - Squaring up

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:58 pm

Time to illustrate the progress so far. The picture below shows the transverse spacer .bar that I've put in to hold apart the two sides, and one of the slivers of plastic strip that I've inserted between the lead flashing and the wagon side. There is one on the nearer side as well - it is obvious that the Daywat used for sticking the chairs to this lead also dragged in the body planks as well.

BnB 001 (Medium).jpg


In the background is an axle spacing jig from Bill Bedford. An excellent piece of kit, but not suitable for helping solve for problem that I found underneath this wagon. More later on that, and adjustments to both my thinking on this wagon, and rocking W-irons in general in my next post.
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Beer and Buckjumpers - Scaleforum, or OMSL

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:37 pm

In a blatant steal of a title from RMWeb, with Scaleforum 2009 only about a month away, I've started thinking about what I need (or simply would like!) to stock up on. The list so far (and this post will be edited as I go along) is:

- miniature snipe nosed pliers. When I started dismantling the wheelsets and w-irons on the LNWR open that I'm repairing, I wanted to twist back the lugs on the rocking w-iron, and found that I didn't have a precise way of doing it. In the end I used a pair of flat-ended pliers, but I need a proper tool to enable me to work with more precision.

- a w-iron spacing jig. One of these, in fact - http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/axle_gauges.htm as I found that the Bill Bedford gauge that I have works perfectly for setting up parallel axles, but doesn't work at all when checking already-fitted pinpoint axles.

- wagon wheels. I've just realised how many unmade wagon kits I have, and how many sets of wheels they will need. Alan Gibson will do remarkably good business off me...

- waisted pin-points. If I need the wheels, I need the bearings as well, and these type might mean that you have to junk the ones that arrive with some wheels or in kits, but they are sooooo much easier to use than filing or drilling big chunks out of the back of an axlebox.

More on this post in future as I think of other things to add :-)
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers - Scaleforum, or OMSL

Postby Andrew » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:22 am

Flymo748 wrote:- a w-iron spacing jig. One of these, in fact - http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/axle_gauges.htm as I found that the Bill Bedford gauge that I have works perfectly for setting up parallel axles, but doesn't work at all when checking already-fitted pinpoint axles.


Interesting jig, added to my own shopping list.

Flymo748 wrote:- wagon wheels. I've just realised how many unmade wagon kits I have, and how many sets of wheels they will need. Alan Gibson will do remarkably good business off me...


Likewise. I did an audit to see what was required to finish a handful of wagons and fired off on order. Next will be an order for loco wheels. Won't be any excuses for not getting a train or two running.

Flymo748 wrote:- miniature snipe nosed pliers. When I started dismantling the wheelsets and w-irons on the LNWR open that I'm repairing, I wanted to twist back the lugs on the rocking w-iron, and found that I didn't have a precise way of doing it. In the end I used a pair of flat-ended pliers, but I need a proper tool to enable me to work with more precision.


What would be the width of the plier at the nose? I've got a very old pair of snipe-nose, not sure of brand, but they are about 2mm at the nose. Very useful for etched tabs.

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby smyles » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:52 pm

Hi Flymo,
Rather worried about the use of superglue to hold wheels on axles. I used superglue to secure Alan Gibson outside cranks to axles and the cranks completely disintegrated, some sort of reaction with the plastic. Cranks replaced free of charge, good service.
Mike

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Tim V » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:16 pm

I can vouch for the Brassmaster's jig, I managed to turn a box of useless wagons into a fleet of runners in a very short time.

I have used superglue on wagon wheels, without problems, they were mainly Studiolith though. My next project may well be Tony Sisson's go-no go BB jig, could well be the way forward.
Tim V
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:12 pm

Tim V wrote:I can vouch for the Brassmaster's jig, I managed to turn a box of useless wagons into a fleet of runners in a very short time.


That's definitely what I need. The photos are still on my DSLR, but I took a picture that I'll post in the next instalment of three LNWR vans in a line. Or rather, in a straight line the bodies are not :-(

It's amazing what I thought was acceptable when I looked at it with a less experienced eye...

Tim V wrote:I have used superglue on wagon wheels, without problems, they were mainly Studiolith though. My next project may well be Tony Sisson's go-no go BB jig, could well be the way forward.


The concept of Tony's jig looked excellent. I don't know if I would be happy relying on plastic card to survive the wear and tear of use, although it seems to be more than robust to give good service on Charlotte Street. It's a very elegant engineering solution to the problem.

That said, I've never had a problem with "slip" gauges and keeping accuracy. I suppose that a model railway is actually less critical than setting inlet and exhaust clearances in a 4-valve Desmodromic head, and I'm quite happy to do that! http://jharinarayanan.files.wordpress.c ... /fig12.jpg illustrates...

I'll still stick with superglue as a fix, as even using Tony's gauge, the wheels still have to stay accurately in place, and some of the wheels seem to arrive distinctly loose on the axle.

Thanks for the thoughts.
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Beer and Buckjumpers - Scaleforum - OMSL #2

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:30 pm

Further thoughts on what I need on my shopping list...

- an airbrush moisture trap. I've never had one, and thankfully never had bad results from spraying, but from reading so many articles saying that they help get a good finish, I think that it's about time.

- weathering colours. More precisely, the list of paints recommended by Martyn Welch in his invaluable book, "The Art of Weathering". He produces all of his effects from the artful use of a very limited range of colours, all from the Humbrol range. To save ploughing through the whole text in search of them, they are:

- 33 Black
- 62 Leather
- 82 Orange
- 53 Gunmetal
- 64 Grey
- 112 Tarmac
- 133 Bauxite
- 9 Gloss Tan
- 110 Natural Wood
- Metalcote Gunmetal
- Metalcote Polished Steel

I intend to keep these separate in a box so that can force myself to ONLY use these in a weathering palette, and then I shoudl get consistency in the shades and effects across all of the models that I paint.

Oh, and I did a quick check to start working out how many wheelsets I would need from Alan Gibson. I have 38 (thirty eight!) unmade D&S wagon kits alone... Whoops!
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers - Scaleforum - OMSL #2

Postby nigelcliffe » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Flymo748 wrote:- an airbrush moisture trap. I've never had one, and thankfully never had bad results from spraying, but from reading so many articles saying that they help get a good finish, I think that it's about time.


I have a combined pressure regulator and moisture trap. Never had any moisture in it, but I have a dry cavity wall insulated workshop and live in the driest part of the UK. The pressure regulator bit is useful.

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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers - Scaleforum - OMSL #2

Postby Will L » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:19 pm

nigelcliffe wrote:
I have a combined pressure regulator and moisture trap. Never had any moisture in it, but I have a dry cavity wall insulated workshop and live in the driest part of the UK. The pressure regulator bit is useful.


I never see moisture in my trap (which also regulates pressure) either and I spay in my garage, in Cheshire. Not a dry part of the world. I brought the trap because on one humid days I did get problems with spaying the occasional drops of water. It's hasn't happened since.

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Beer and Buckjumpers - Scaleforum - OMSL #3

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:18 pm

Well, it's the night before Scaleforum and I'm adding the last things to my shopping list...

Alan Gibson waisted pinpoints - if I'm getting the wheelsets, then I need the bearings. The ones with the metal cutaway so that they are like a little Mayan pyramid (but obviously without the human sacrifices) in shape, and which mean that there is much less metal or plastic that needs to be removed when modifying axleboxes to fit over them. It may mean throwing away, or at least popping in the spares box, perfectly good parallel shaped bearings, but the improvement in ease of fitting makes it so much more worthwhile.

Piece of aluminium for RSU - I have one of the superb London Road Models resistance soldering units. I've never been very happy about earthing the workpiece through a piece of scabby brass sheet that was sitting around. I think that I need to look at Eileen's Emporium (now under new ownership!) for a piece of proper aluminium sheet that I can use for a more professional set-up.

And that's it. That's my shopping list. Of course, there's still plenty of room for the impulse purchases ;-)
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Beer and Buckjumpers - Scaleforum - the hangover

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:29 pm

Well, not in a bad way. I have finally managed to get some time earlier today to get started with some of the modelling kit that I bought at Scaleforum.

I've used the Brassmasters wagon wheelbase jig to straighten out the w-irons on my LNWR ballast restoration job. It now sits squarely in the runnig gear, only to reveal that the body is not the straightest thing that I've ever built :-(

Never mind, perhaps it suffered a rough shunt in a previous life. At least with sprung buffers it will not be adversely affected by the misalignment when it's running.

The next challenge that I'm facing is that of getting the Sprat & Winkle couplings set up properly. If I'm every going to get consistent running, then I ned to find a way of easily making these consistently. I'm working on some ideas, but it's more frustrating than I could possibly imagine! I seem to need about four sets of (asbestos) fingers to hold everything together in the right place whilst glueing/soldering the parts together...

Oh well, not much chance to do anything in the next few days, as I'm off for a week on a Dutch language course. I'll have very little free time, so perhaps a little browsing of the new-look RMWeb will be all that I can manage.
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Broader isn't always better...

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:12 pm

Over the last couple of days I've been finishing off my first restoration wagon by fiting Sprat & Winkle couplings to it. Yes, I know that it's taken a long time to get this far, but I've been thinking - a lot...

As a P4 modeller, normally I would have a preference for broadness - 18.83 looks better than 18.2 or 16.5 for example ;-)

However my plan to use a wider loop for the coupling isn't very satisfactory. Having decided that I'd like a width of 12mm to ensure that there would be plenty of swing from side to side on the sorts of curves that I'm anticipating on industrial sidings in a brewery, it simply doesn't look very good...

IMG_3078 (Medium).JPG


On the left, the new width. On the right, an older wagon with a much narrower loop. Despite being made out of much thicker wire, I think that it's much less obtrusive. Time for a change of plan (and the gauges that I have set up for making these consistently).
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Slipping away...

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:41 am

Recent discussion on the forum (viewtopic.php?f=37&t=582) gave a cautionary word to someone that was planning their first P4 layout and had included in the trackplan a three-way point. Advice was along the lines of sucking between the teeth and saying that it might be a bit tricky - but it was generally positive. The episode coincided with me finally deciding to get rid of the second ever piece of pointwork that I ever built in P4. Mind you, looking at the picture below, of how I found it in a box of other railway bits, you'll see why:

IMG_3090 (Medium).JPG


It was a double slip - a B8 I think - and despite not having survived countless house moves, it shows what can be done with a bit of determination. The first ever point that I built in P4 was a B6 turnout on copperclad. Like this, it was just to prove that I could do it. I think that looking at the centre section of the slip shows that I could.

IMG_3088 (Medium).JPG


So the message to those contemplating P4 track for the first time is to have no fears. Indeed, with the P4Track Co turnout kits, life should be a lot easier... In the meantime, these sorry remains ar going in the bin!
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Beer and Buckjumpers - Hoorah for Alan Gibson!

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:12 pm

I had a call on Saturday from Colin at Alan Gibson saying that he had an order for me ready for shipping. On Tuesday I had a card through the door saying that the Royal Mail had a package for me to sign for, And finally today, I was able to go down to the post office and collect a stout brown box with my name on...

And inside were :-)

IMG_3100 (Medium).JPG


I haven't opened the boxes yet, but they should both have a full complement of P4 wheels included, and be ready for full springing on all axles. Excitement!
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Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby John Bateson » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:02 am

I remember these clanking their way through Longstanton with 50+ trucks dragging reluctantly behind.
Do the kits come with the new self-quartered wheels?
John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
http://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

Chris Mitton
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Beer and Buckjumpers

Postby Chris Mitton » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:52 am

Like Flymo, I too got the call from Colin last Saturday and by Tuesday was looking at a brand new set of etches and castings - the only painful part was reading out 16-digit numbers over the phone! Mine will be 7567, which (long after it had become 65465) was the first engine I ever rode on, at the age of 11 - happy days (apart from hiding from lurking inspectors!). I'll be quite a bit older than that by the time I finish it! In reply to John's question, no, the wheels are the usual quarter-by-eye variety.

Chris


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