Another Round...

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Flymo748
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Yesterday's progress...

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:13 am

Brakes and wheels on the tender, and brakes on the locomotive:

IMG_7121.JPG


IMG_7125.JPG


I've also remembered why I left off the tender toolbox- it's so that I can paint and line (!) it separately, rather than in situ. That's a remarkable amount of forward thinking for me...

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Flymo748
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Back on the Coffee (Pot)

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:09 pm

It's been a busy few weeks, resulting in a lack of modelling.

However inspired by the sight of Will Litchfield's almost completed GER Coffee Pot at Scaleforum last weekend, I was provoked to start work on mine again and move it to completion. Picking up the trail through the instructions, I was pleased to find how little there was to do.

The first task was to repair the damaged crossheads that arose during a very frustrating slidebar/wooly jumper sleeve interface. I still won't go into detail of this, as the thought brings me out in a cold sweat.

The other impressive thing about Will's locomotive is the weight, for something of such a small size. Will explained that this was because he had packed the saddle tanks with lead, as well as the bunkers.

I'm intending to leave the bunkers as they are until the final assembly is complete. My worry is because they are distinctly to the rear of the rear driving wheels, adding weight may unbalance the front end, and make it less good at roadholding in curves. However there was something that I could do about the tanks...

I started by cutting a length of 70 degree Carrs low melt solder into small ingots. These were introduced into the spaces in the saddle tanks from inside, and flooded with flux. The introduction of a hot iron with a large bit resulted in the solder flooding the space. I was able to build up successive layers until the tank was full. I then turned the loco onto the other side and repeated the exercise.

IMG_7192.JPG


Having done both sides, the weight of the loco body is now a much increased 71 grams. The next steps are sand pipes and cylinder lubricators - more fiddly work.

Before that was a trial fit of the chassis. This shows that there is actually much more space in there for the mechanism and DCC chip than I expected.

IMG_7197.JPG


I hope to make further progress (and give the whole model a good clean) tomorrow evening...

Cheers
Flymo
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Flymo748
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Getting there...

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:20 am

The Coffee Pot continues to progress...

Last night saw sand pipes going into the body, left over-length at the moment so that I can shape them and trim them back when the wheels are fitted. On the front end went the coupling hook - and Exactoscale one which initially I thought looked overscale. Now that it's fitted in place, it seems to have just the right amount of heft to it.

I realised that I hadn't fitted the front lamp irons on the buffer beam either, so those went on. At this point, the right hand side dumb buffer promptly fell off! It was better that it happened at that point than after the paint had gone on the locomotive, so I only swore a little bit, then put it back on.

The photo with an appalling depth of field does at least give an impression of how it looks:

IMG_7213.JPG


Back with the chassis, the last proper soldering job was to add the drain cock detail to the bottom of the cylinders. Again, this is a usual highly detailed High Level confection of etched bits and fine wire.

I differed from the instructions slightly. It was a little too difficult to drill all three holes in the cylinder bottom to locate all three wires into it. I could probably have done it with a 0.4mm drill in the pillar drill if I'd wanted to.

So what I actually did was drill the hole for the central wire, and used that as the locating anchor. The wires at the two ends were then tack soldered in place, which seems to hold them strongly enough. Certainly if the model is knocked in a way that disturbs them, it's going to have bigger problems than a bent wire!

I realised afterwards that I'd taken the picture before cleaning up the remains of the solder paint. The final result is much neater and reflects Chris's thoughtful kit design.

IMG_7202.JPG


After this, the body had a good scrub and went into the ultrasonic tank, and I started work on the fold-up gearbox. More to be done on that this evening, I hope...

Cheers
Flymo
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DougN
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Re: Another Round...

Postby DougN » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:46 am

Flymo you seem to have your mojo at the moment. I looked at the etch for the valves and thought that they looked too close to the cylinder when I put them on the RSH. Any how yours looks just right.

Looking through the RSH, the black hawthorn and now your coffee pot shows how Chris has used some common parts to make the locos... I wondered why I like his kits a little too much.. I feel a larger loco comming on!
Doug
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Flymo748
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:23 am

DougN wrote:Flymo you seem to have your mojo at the moment. I looked at the etch for the valves and thought that they looked too close to the cylinder when I put them on the RSH. Any how yours looks just right.

Looking through the RSH, the black hawthorn and now your coffee pot shows how Chris has used some common parts to make the locos... I wondered why I like his kits a little too much.. I feel a larger loco comming on!

Hi Doug,

The mojo was always there for modelling. It was just the Coffee Pot that I couldn't face. Short version:

Spent *ages* getting the slide bars and crossheads assembled. You may recall that I couldn't manage to file the "mushroom" on the crosshead casting correctly, and after that I decided to drill the pivot out and use a brass lace pin instead.

So I set up the pillar drill and very carefully drilled through from the front of the crosshead directly through the cast "bearing". That should have also taken out the remains of the cast pin on the rear of the crosshead.

IMG_6805.JPG


Except that it didn't. The pimple on the front of the crosshead was not in line with the pivot pin. I had a hole between the pin and the meat of the crosshead, meaning that the connecting rod didn't fit, and wouldn't have pivoted even if it did. So I then flipped the crosshead over, and drilled again from the back, wiping out (intentionally) the cast pivot on the way.

Then it was in with a lace pin, a spot of solder and the job was done.

IMG_6808.JPG


Trim, and repeat for the other side. I then assembled the backing plates for the crossheads and fitted them into the slidebars. A bit of fetting and all moved smoothly. I was finally feeling quite pleased with myself, not least that this task was over. I *hate* the mechanical moving bits of modelling :-(

So I was tidying up the work desk, putting things away, ready for the next session, with my beautifully assembled and highly delicate set of cylinders, slide bars and connecting rods sitting in my jeweller's vice. You can guess what happens next...

One catch from the sleeve of a woolly jumper and the whole lot is on the floor as a tangle knot of nickel silver and brass castings. I'd even managed to "explode" those crossheads that I'd spent so long on into their component parts.

So the whole lot was shoved in a box and left to fester. I contemplated speaking with Chris about an entire new fret, and I'm sure that he would have helped, but I was not going to be defeated. On the other hand, I couldn't face them again _just_ yet.

That was about six months ago, I guess, and it was only when I say Will's completed Coffee Pot on the Society Stand at Scaleforum that I decided that I had left it for too long, and the time was right to fix it. So here we are. The crossheads are rebuilt and seem to run smoothly in the un-knotted slidebars. I'll have to wait until the chassis is fitted with wheels and running properly to see if I've been truly successful.

So now you know... Don't try this at home folks - it's not worth the grief!

Cheers
Flymo
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Flymo748
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:27 am

DougN wrote:Flymo you seem to have your mojo at the moment. I looked at the etch for the valves and thought that they looked too close to the cylinder when I put them on the RSH. Any how yours looks just right.

Oh, one other thing that I forgot to mention.

The build has been significantly eased by having access to prototype information via the GERS. In this case, there are lengthy notes on the locomotives, and some very nice scale drawings.

If I ever reached a point where I wanted additional information on top of Chris's already copious instructions, then I could turn to this.

For example, on the drain cocks:

Drains.jpg
Drains.jpg (9.6 KiB) Viewed 5320 times


Chris shows them as well, but this confirmed it, as did a number of contemporary photographs. You can never have too much information...

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Flymo
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billbedford
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Re: Another Round...

Postby billbedford » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:53 am

There is no sign of a flitch plate on the outer face of the buffer beam on any of the photos on this page nor on any of the photos in the RCTS vol 9B
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Re: Another Round...

Postby DougN » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:40 am

your right Flymo... there are times when flower arranging seems like a better pass time.... just dont ask about the Q6 tender brake gear | :evil: I have found the things I have been doing is either getting easier (or am I getting better at things) ,,, The RSH needs pickups glued on and fitted! You dont like the mechanical bits I dont like the pick ups!
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Flymo748
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:28 pm

billbedford wrote:There is no sign of a flitch plate on the outer face of the buffer beam on any of the photos on this page nor on any of the photos in the RCTS vol 9B


Hmmm...

I'd better get my eyes tested before I do any more modelling.

Flitch.JPG
Flitch.JPG (10.73 KiB) Viewed 5280 times


I really can't see the separate washer plates that would be necessary behind those bolt heads, and there can't really be a distinct step between the front of the buffer beam and the bulk of the buffer beam on the lower edge.

Extract is from the picture of 227 in GER days at the Devonshire Road coal stage on Adrian's page that you linked to.

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Flymo
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Flymo748
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Another Round... Not forgotten

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:30 pm

I've managed to do a little modelling in the last few days, but had scarce time to document anything.

I haven't forgotten the Ulpha Light Railway whilst I've been finishing other projects. And I was moving motorbikes around in the garage this evening when the last rays of the late afternoon sun caught the layout.

The quarry's industrial Pug moves a few wagons around under a threatening sky, to form tomorrow's early morning freight train. I hope that it doesn't start to rain...

IMG_7360 (Large).JPG


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Another Round... Counting back

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:07 am

One of the "problems" of today's state-of-the art kits such as the High Level Coffeepot is the sheer number of parts that they contain.

The etched sheets alone have 123 different components listed. That doesn't include the multiples of the same part number, nor the (thoughtfully provided) spare of certain small bits that are added in anticipation of sacrifices to The Carpet God. And it doesn't include the multitude of castings in whitemetal and lost-wax brass either.

So I was thinking that I was reaching the end of the "build" stage and still had a number of components left on the frets. Helpfully Chris provides pictures of the parts and their names and numbers in the instructions. Matching back to these, I was able to eliminate all of the remaining parts as relating to other locomotives in the eight-strong class except these:

IMG_7350.JPG


The long bits are the reversing rods, which are not fitted until the chassis is mounted in the body, so they were okay. The small bits that look like steps, are steps... I missed the bit in the instructions that said that they should be fitted.

So a quick whizz of the soldering iron, and they are in place on the front of the bunkers.

Next is the trial build stage, to ensure that everything goes together before painting starts.

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Flymo
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Another Round... Time for a test build.

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:47 pm

Now, where was I? Ah yes, putting it all together.

Chris's instructions recommend that before you start painting, you do a test-build of the main groups of components to ensure that they all fit together properly. It makes a lot of sense, as my experience proved. And so to the lesson learned...

When I came to bolt the chassis to the body, everything lined up perfectly. The only trouble was that I couldn't seat the M2 fixing bolt properly because the head wouldn't fit past the protruding end of the compensation beam:

IMG_7303.JPG


So (you can guess what is coming next...) the solution was to reach for the trusty Dremel with the "angle grinder" disc in it. I'm afraid that there is only a blurry photo of this, but a little discretion is probably best for the nerves of some:

IMG_7304.JPG


After this, the way was clear. There were only a couple of small nicks on the inner faces of the mainframes. Nothing structural was damaged, nor even anything visible:

IMG_7309.JPG


In the previous picture, you may have noticed a trace of blu-tack in the slot of the bolt head. This is my standard trick to ensure that they are held by the screwdriver and placed in the right location. It also reduces the cost of modelling by cutting down on the number of replacement purchases necessary to cover those sacrificed to the Carpet God. I literally smear a small amount of blu-tack sideways across the head of the screw or bolt and it fills the slot up nicely, enabling this to be done:

IMG_7320.JPG


And as you would expect from a High Level Kit, it all came nicely together. Here are a couple of pictures of the finished thing after the test assembly. All of the major parts are together, except the cosmetic ones like the backhead detail and brake rigging:

IMG_7322.JPG


IMG_7330.JPG


And so on to the paint shop...

Cheers
Flymo
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John McAleely
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Re: Another Round...

Postby John McAleely » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:12 pm

Truly a 'wheels not included' kit :-)

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Will L
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Re: Another Round... Time for a test build.

Postby Will L » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:46 am

Flymo748 wrote:All of the major parts are together, except the cosmetic ones like the backhead detail and brake rigging:



Are yes the brake ringing. I remember that. Much fun still to come then. Hint, when considering the rear most set of brakes and the sand pipes which in inhabit the same space, be clear what goes inside what.

Keeping the ash pan in the right place while you screw down the chassis can have its moments too.

Will

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Re: Another Round...

Postby DougN » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:45 am

Personally I think we should do away with Brakes.... they only foul up ones day and engine... Had a few choice words on both the black hawthorn and the RSH. No guessing which ones.. I even had a moment or 3 yesterday with a wagon which needed the attention of the dremel to clear the wheels.. though I am still not happy, wagon has pin points but seems to have alot of friction... No one mention my Q6 or its tender for with out brakes it runs fine :evil:
Doug
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Flymo748
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Re: Another Round... Time for a test build.

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:11 am

Will L wrote:
Flymo748 wrote:All of the major parts are together, except the cosmetic ones like the backhead detail and brake rigging:


Are yes the brake ringing. I remember that. Much fun still to come then. Hint, when considering the rear most set of brakes and the sand pipes which in inhabit the same space, be clear what goes inside what.

I understand what you mean... I'll have to stick the loco upside down in the cradle and have a fiddle.

The sand pipes are currently left over-length as I wanted to be able to trim them back to the correct length only after all the wheels and brakes were in place. If I stick to that plan, I should only need to be able to reach them with a pair of snips and a small paintbrush to dab at the end.

Will L wrote:Keeping the ash pan in the right place while you screw down the chassis can have its moments too.

I've been thinking about that as well. It seemed to be okay for the trial assembly.

However I was wondering whether it is possible to tack the tabs at the top of the ash-pan in place before putting it all together. There doesn't seem anything to me that it will interfere with.

In the spirit of adventure, I may give it a try anyway! If I fix it with just a couple of dabs of thick cyano, then the joint will easily break if it all goes horribly wrong :-)

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Another Round... A small crisis of identity

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:37 pm

As well as painting the main parts of the Coffee Pot, I also need to finalise an identity for it, and finish the appropriate number plates.

In the High Level kit, there are actually etched brass plates for all of the locomotives in the class that were built: the original four by Neilson, and the later four by the GER itself. Due to the choices that I made whilst building it, mine is not one of the Neilson engines.

This gives me a choice of four possible numbers that fit the body style. I have painted up the plates for locomotives 227 and 230.

IMG_7443.JPG


Number 230 is the more famous one of the two, becoming famous as the Stratford Works shunter, and often displayed by the LNER at public open days. It was fitted with various accoutrements for the role, such as a Westinghouse reservoir, from 1916. As I'm setting mine in 1911, then it would still match the model as I've built it.

However I'm tempted towards numbering it as 227, just because it's less in the public eye :-)

The number plates have been filled in with a couple of thin coats of Precision vermillion paint, and left to harden for three or four days. Then the plates were separated from the etch, the tabs filed off, and the surface polished to bring up the brass finish.

This is done on a very fine sanding pad. I picked up a set of these at last year's Warley Show, and they really are quite nifty. They range from 1500 grade to the one that I'm using here, which is 4000 grade. It produces an almost mirror-like finish.

The pads are backed with a soft foam, which means that you can use them easily on curved surfaces, and also rinse them out after use under a tap, which brings them back to life. A very worthwhile acquisition for just a few quid.

Cheers
Flymo
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jayell
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Re: Another Round... A small crisis of identity

Postby jayell » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:00 pm

Flymo748 wrote:As well as painting the main parts of the Coffee Pot, I also need to finalise an identity for it, and finish the appropriate number plates.
However I'm tempted towards numbering it as 227, just because it's less in the public eye :-)


Go for it, you know it makes sense :D

John

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Blast from the past...

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:00 am

Last weekend I visited my parents. They are a handy place to stay for a weekend at the Warley Show and it's good to catch up with how they are getting on.

As I was leaving, my father thrust a couple of boxes of railway stuff in hands, with words that he was clearing clutter out of the loft :-)

Much of it is pretty ancient Tri-ang and Hornby, and will be heading straight to Ebay as a job lot just as soon as I've photographed it and typed up the listing. However two items caught my eye, and I'll be hanging on to:

IMG_7537.JPG


On the left is the very first whitemetal kit that I built. I think that I was about ten or eleven years old at the time, and had received it for Christmas from my cousin Robert Chester-Lamb, who was (and still is) running Bearwood Models. In those days he actually had a physical shop in Bearwood, which was quite distinctive as it had a full-size GWR signal outside the shop on the pavement! Sadly I can't find a picture of it online :-(

I recall that the wagon was an ABS kit. It was a standard GWR five-plank wagon. I clearly had pre-Grouping pretensions then, as I lettered it using the 1900s style of livery. Actually, I recall that the livery was chosen because it was not hidden by the tarpaulin. And the reason for the tarpaulin? This being the first whitemetal kit that I'd ever put together, I had put the soldering iron bit straight through the side of the wagon whilst soldering the corners together, and needed something to hide the hole!

I clearly had as much grasp of engineering principles then as I do now, as the (supplied) pinpoint axles were running in the holes in the backs of the axleboxes, with no brass bearings. It's a good job that it was in OO, as the axles won't stay square for long!

The wagon on the right is a Mainline hopper wagon. I remember what a step forward these models (and Airfix/GMR) were in detail compared to the rest of the Hornby models that I had on my layout. So what do you do with the best wagon that you own? You weather it, of course...

Actually considering that I had no idea, apart from the fact that it must be rusty, it's not too bad with splodges of Humbrol "Rust" splodged on and worked in.

I'm not getting rid of either of these models. They're going to be safely tucked away in a box. I don't think that they will find a place running in P4 in a GER setting in 1911, but some things you just don't want to see go...

Cheers
Flymo
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DougN
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Re: Another Round...

Postby DougN » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:03 am

Your right Flymo, you can't throw out models that took a long time at the time and a lot of effort... No doubt a shorter Flymo was very proud of the kit and the new wagon. It is the same reason I can't sell on a flying Scotsman which I bought in 1988 at the age of 14 for 159.90 aud... that's cheap for Aussie prices at the time.. Before I know of hattons et al. I won't give it up... Thought it was improved by having the rear truck rebuilt and a few other things. Come to think of it I have no idea of where it is in the house.
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Flymo748
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:29 am

DougN wrote:Your right Flymo, you can't throw out models that took a long time at the time and a lot of effort... No doubt a shorter Flymo was very proud of the kit and the new wagon. It is the same reason I can't sell on a flying Scotsman which I bought in 1988 at the age of 14 for 159.90 aud... that's cheap for Aussie prices at the time.. Before I know of hattons et al. I won't give it up... Thought it was improved by having the rear truck rebuilt and a few other things. Come to think of it I have no idea of where it is in the house.


Doug,

Do you mean one like this? :-)

IMG_7549.JPG


It also came back from my parents' house with me. I tested it last night, and it still runs. For 1970s/80s values of "runs" that is... Flangeless centre drivers and pickup on only two axles!

This one will be going on Ebay though, along with its contemporary in a Hornby Silver Seal "Evening Star". There is nostalgia, and then there is storage space!

Cheers
Flymo
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DougN
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Re: Another Round...

Postby DougN » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:55 am

Mine was the next version with the horrible tender drive. Still I loved it.
Doug
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Flymo748
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Colouring the Coffee Pot

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:13 am

Have also recently had the opportunity to take the progress on the little GER Coffee Pot forward a step or two. After the test assembly, related a post or two ago, it was time to set up the spray booth and put some colour on.

As I don't have a permanent workshop or working area, other than my modelling bureau, this has to wait until the house is clear and I can drag out compressors, airbrushes, spray booths, and all the other assorted paraphernalia of spraying models.

The little tank engine was first broken back down into its constituent parts. This shows just how many of them there are:

IMG_7341.JPG


And of course many of them are quite small enough to be blown to the back of the spray booth by the airbrush if you aren't very careful!

However the loco body has a nice heavy weight to it, which helps keep it in position. Wherever possible, I mount items to be sprayed in a way so that I don't just spray from the top or side, but can spray from below as well without touching or moving the model. This takes place on an improvised mount that I rigged up from an offcut of timber and a few pieces of stiff wire cut from an old coathanger. There are a varied of holes and a variety of length wires, so i can usually find a secure way of positioning the model.

IMG_7364.JPG


The discolouration of the model is due to the use of some Carrs Surface Conditioner to prepare it for painting. This was followed by a good wash in running water, and a careful blast with the hairdryer to remove any traces of damp.

The first coat to be applied was Comet Models etch primer, after which it was left to harden off in an airtight box for a few days...

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Flymo
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Natalie Graham
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Re: Colouring the Coffee Pot

Postby Natalie Graham » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:29 am

Flymo748 wrote: after which it was left to harden off in an airtight box for a few days...


Now that is genuinely impressive. How do you resist the urge to poke it with a finger after a couple of hours to see if it is dry yet? Or is that just me? :(

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Re: Colouring the Coffee Pot

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:33 pm

Natalie Graham wrote:
Flymo748 wrote: after which it was left to harden off in an airtight box for a few days...


Now that is genuinely impressive. How do you resist the urge to poke it with a finger after a couple of hours to see if it is dry yet? Or is that just me? :(


Oh yes, I have that temptation... However I simply make the comparison in the time that it takes to test whether the paint is dry, versus the amount of time that it takes to strip all of the paint of, check that the surface is okay, and respray the thing!

In which case, leaving it to dry and going on to something else is a bit of an easy choice :-)

BTW, the painting for this is cellulose. This is the first time that I've tried using it, so there will be some interesting experiences along the way. If all else fails, the weathering will sort it out ;-)

Cheers
Flymo
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