Another Round...

Terry Bendall
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:42 pm

Flymo748 wrote:Games Workshop had produced a portable workbench that they intended for gamers to paint figures on


This of course is a very useful idea and there are lots of variations on the same theme. No doubt Flymo's post will bring up pictures of similar ideas. :) Even those with fairly basic woodworking skills should be able to construct something like this ( :D ) and if not find a friend who can or no doubt one of the laser cutting firms could produce something from a sketch for self assembly.

For the budding cabinet maker building a bureau style modelling desk would be feasible. Many years ago old and large roll top desks would do a similar job and have the advantage that most things can be left in place and the cover rolled down but these days they are expensive since they are collectors' items.

Terry Bendall

Carlos
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Carlos » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:28 pm

Hi Paul,

Thanks a lot for your post, even if this time I did my homework promptly and it comes a bit late... Here it is my brand new (not yet used, actually) modelling tray

IMG_20151210_202800.jpg
tray


It's made from 12 mm MDF, quite sturdy but not heavy, and using a minimum set of square cuts, so I returned from B&Q with all the cutting done... The size is just to fit inside the 80x40 cm cupboard at home. I planned to use some rubber bits for it not to slide, but the idea of the wooden strip and green baize looks better. My plan is to start using it and see how it works and what I needs. Something for holding/keeping the tools in place... your ideas could be copied! What I already have is the test track base:

IMG_20151210_202637.jpg
track base


You can appreciate the space for 2 tracks of 2 favourite gauges. I've yet to cut some C&L flexitrack to length.

I tried to find an already built tray, of the Games Workshop type, but everything I found was too small. GW and Grainge&Holder look bigger but I didn't find them. Good to know if I need a replacement.

So no excuses to finish my wool wagon, now that I'm sure that Santa will leave some buffers & axleboxes on my socks this Christmas ;)

Winander
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Winander » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:08 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:Many years ago old and large roll top desks would do a similar job and have the advantage that most things can be left in place and the cover rolled down but these days they are expensive since they are collectors' items.
Terry Bendall


I've been keeping an eye on a local auctioneer that sells mostly house clearance items. The roll top desks are expensive but the drop leaf type such as Flymos' can be had for a reasonable price - I think I paid about £40 for a solid oak one that was complete and in a presentable condition.They crop up every couple of weeks but I suppose this will depend on the area. If you have a mind to get one it is worth spending a little time locating an auctioneer as ours publishes an on-line catalogue with indication prices.

Be careful though going to auctions and bidding can become addictive - on more than one occasion I have been forced to restrain Domestic Management's arm.

regards
Richard

Philip Hall
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:20 pm

Many years ago I built a bureau much like the one that Flymo has but specifically for modelling. It was intended to be folded up when not in use, but as it was in my own 'front room' in my mother's house where the railway was located it tended to stay open. Later on a friend disposed of a roll top desk, but quite a modern design where the roll top was a solid curved piece of timber, rather than the linked slats usual in these things. This too has stayed open although I sometimes close it down when I go on holiday. Some of them appeared (along with half of the rest of the workshop) in one of the Scalefour News 'guess the workbench' competitions.

The great thing about these is that there is masses of room at the back, in small drawers and the like, to keep all your tools and odds. I also have made great use of one of the inside trays of a Really Useful Box which my wife obtained for keeping some of her sewing stuff in. This consists of about twenty little compartments, and it lives on one of the benches and contains axles, b-b gauges, all sorts of small stuff I need on a daily basis. I say some because my wife's 'sewing stuff' almost eclipses my workshop, but we'll let that pass...

These have served me so well that when I relocate to the bottom of the garden to a new building, I see no reason to build new workbenches, I shall simply install the ones I have under the windows and build extensions between them. I have always been extremely fortunate to have a fair amount of space for a workbench.

Finally, I seem to remember that Eileen's used to sell a portable workable similar to those in Flymo's post, not sure if they still do.

Philip

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LesGros
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Re: Another Round...

Postby LesGros » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:53 pm

To add to the choices on offer, This in an email from Hobbies.

http://www.alwayshobbies.com/plastic-mo ... 0cm-x-15cm

Or, as they sometimes say in Yorkshire, "Fill yer Boots!"

All the best,
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

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Flymo748
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Missenden time again

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:05 am

Well, it hardly seems like five minutes since I was last at Missenden Abbey for the last modelling weekend. Unfortunately I've done far less since then that I would have hoped, so for me, part of the Missenden ritual is taking down a couple of boxes of part completed locomotives I haven't touched since last time.

However to rekindle some memories of just how good it is, and perhaps to act as a taster for anyone that hasn't been before and is going for the first time, here are just a few pictures from the Spring 2015 weekend, and the last time that these locomotives saw daylight:

The crowd listens in rapt attention to the tutors (on the left) ritual warning on picking up soldering irons by the correct end, and scalpels _can_ cut things...
Missenden Mar'15 10.JPG


You can tell that they are impressed!
Missenden Mar'15 09.JPG


This becomes my workshop for the weekend.
Missenden Mar'15 11.JPG


And a couple of shots of the gearbox that I described recently in the split-chassis topic of Phil:

Missenden Mar'15 15.JPG


Missenden Mar'15 16.JPG


To complete the split chassis, shorted out wheels are needed, of course. These are done with Bill Bedford shorting strips, carefully soldered to the back of the tyres, then the solder filed smooth and away from the flange:

Missenden Mar'15 18.JPG


And a test fit of one half in the chassis:

Missenden Mar'15 20.JPG


So this is where I'll be picking it up on Friday evening. See some of you there!
Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:40 pm

I'll be there to make sure you are not taking things too seriously Paul!!!

By the way, I will have something with me that you will have a commercial interest in............... I have never seen one elsewhere so it will be a once in a lifetime opportunity for you!
Mark Tatlow

Mark Forrest
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Mark Forrest » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:19 pm

I'm attending my first Missenden this weekend so see you there! Looking at the portable workbenches mentioned above makes my off cut of conti-board look woefully inadequate!

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Andy W
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Andy W » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:28 pm

Paul, do you line up the BB shorting strips by eye, or pop an axle in the hole?

Are these strips still available?
Make Worcestershire great again.
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Flymo748
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:43 pm

Mark Forrest wrote:I'm attending my first Missenden this weekend so see you there! Looking at the portable workbenches mentioned above makes my off cut of conti-board look woefully inadequate!


Hi Mark,

Trust me, I wasn't always prepared like that!

For the first three or four Missenden weekends I went to, I did all on my modelling on a 9 inch square sheet of Tufnul. Cutting, soldering, painting, you name it...

Yes, a proper workbench is useful to stop the needle file rolling away, but it is in *no way* essential. Come along and have fun. That's what it's all about. And do make sure that you come and say hello, or I'll be forced to seek you out ;-)

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Flymo748
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:50 pm

Andy W wrote:Paul, do you line up the BB shorting strips by eye, or pop an axle in the hole?

Are these strips still available?


Hi Andy,

I line them up by eye. The holes in the centre are slightly smaller than 1/8th in diameter anyway, so they need taking out slightly with some gentle work with a needle file.

I'm not sure where you could find them now. The Stores shows Out Of Stock, and neither the Eileen's nor Mousa Models websites seem to list them :-(

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Weskie
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Weskie » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:40 pm

I'm not sure where you could find them now.


Don't Brassmasters do a similar version?
Andy Westcott

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Flymo748
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:51 am

Weskie wrote:
I'm not sure where you could find them now.


Don't Brassmasters do a similar version?


Nice one! Fourth item down...

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/accessories.htm

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Knuckles
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Knuckles » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:11 pm

Is split chassis construction harder or just more time consuming?

I'm tempted to give it a go but it seems a lot of buggering about, and well...I don't like to make things more complex than they need to be.

Fitting and fettling wipers to be balanced right is also a lot of buggering about though so it may be worth it!
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Andy W
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Andy W » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:58 pm

"Fitting and fettling wipers to be balanced right is also a lot of buggering about....." that's why I started building splits. It is more faffing about at the onset, but with a bit of planning it reduces one possible cause of poor running.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

Knuckles
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Knuckles » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:15 pm

Aye I'm hearing you.

This is what I've been thinking.

If you have to faff might as well get the best result.

I'll look into this more and give it a go when the time is right.

I've never been interested due to the faff or perceived faff but my mind is being warped!
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
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Andy W
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Andy W » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:08 pm

Try it out on a simple chassis perhaps without valve gear. Might not suit you, but worth trying.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:11 pm

Knuckles wrote:Is split chassis construction harder or just more time consuming


I have not done enough to find out personally, but Barry Luck of the erstwhile Mid Sussex group has been using this method for 30+ years and his locos always run very smoothly so when I get around to building steam outline models it will be the method that I use. The only way to find out if a particular method works is to try it out. :) My philosophy has always been to work out how to do the job - whatever it is, and having found a method that works for me, stick with it. That of course does not mean we should not consider a different way if something comes up but there is a lot of sense in using methods that work for you.

Terry Bendall

Knuckles
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Knuckles » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:56 pm

Thanks you two

I'm definetly going to try it at some point. Wipers have worked for me but I've always found set up to be a bit of trial and error. The prospect of avoiding that and having a chassis that is more visually realistic appeals.

Good to see you today too. :) (Terry and Lord Colnago that is)
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

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Flymo748
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:45 am

Andy W wrote:"Fitting and fettling wipers to be balanced right is also a lot of buggering about....." that's why I started building splits. It is more faffing about at the onset, but with a bit of planning it reduces one possible cause of poor running.


Well, as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out...

The biggest and so far only total PITA has been the shorting strips. Having known that the hole in the centre was too small (although of course that is much better than being too large) for a 1/8 axle, I took the approach of soldering them to the wheel and then sizing the hole for the axle later. That was where the problems arrived.

Whether using a reamer (initially) or a very fine rat's tail needle file (later) it was far too easy to tear the soldered joint away from the wheel of the tyre. After my first attempt at opening out the strips on the wheels, I had four out of the six of them that needed re-soldering :-(

Having done that, and tidied everything up, I still had one join break when I pressed the wheel onto the axle.

In order to improve the join and electrical contact between the strip and the axle, I also used some of this:

IMG_2299.JPG


I flooded the joint with a couple of coats of silver conductive paint. Unfortunately one of the things that I didn't have with me at Missenden was a multimeter so I couldn't test how successfully they worked.

However I did make very good progress on the other aspects of the chassis and by Saturday evening this was how it looked:

IMG_2308.JPG


IMG_2306.JPG


This was followed by fitting the coupling rods and fettling them as two sets of two axles, and ensuring that it all ran smoothly individually. Then I fitted them all and only a small amount of adjusting with a fine needle file was necessary before the chassis rolled smoothly under its own weight down a slight slope. So I'm very pleased.

Next task is to test for electrical continuity (or lack thereof) and fit some wires from the frames to the motor to see if it all works!

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Mike Garwood » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:31 am

Nice work Paul...but I have to ask, in one of the photos the gear box is to one side and not central. Other than the chassis is leaning that way, is there another reason?

How are you getting on with converting the drawings to CAD files, if it's not too rude to ask on here?

kind regards

Mike

dal-t
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Re: Another Round...

Postby dal-t » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:52 am

Flymo748 wrote:
Andy W wrote:"Fitting and fettling wipers to be balanced right is also a lot of buggering about....." that's why I started building splits. It is more faffing about at the onset, but with a bit of planning it reduces one possible cause of poor running.


Well, as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out...


It wouldn't be for me - shorting those wheels seems to have already presented twice as much trouble as bending up and fitting some decent pickups, before you even think about the need to cut and shut the axles, and get the frames square with spacers you can't solder! Having said that, I do understand that for those who have nailed their flag to split frames, it's not purely the hair shirt philosophy, but also some enjoyment from a mechanism that looks 'cleaner' and hides its complication once its together. Personally, seeing those pivots for the brake hangers standing out prominently in the underside photo, I'm wondering whether my next chassis can be made with the brake gear doing the picking up - perhaps even with scraps of old carbon brushes as the brake 'shoes' rubbing on the wheel treads. That should confound the people who think wipers add an unacceptable drag to a rolling chassis!
David L-T

FCA
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Re: Another Round...

Postby FCA » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:24 am

On my latest split chassis venture (a SE&CR H) I have abandoned the spider and, instead, used a brass washer round the axle. Using a 0.4mm drill bit drill right through the tyre, front to back, and join the resulting hole to the washer using 0.4mm wire. Only one such wire is needed as the set up is unlikely to fail once successfully completed. Needless to say in soldering the joint it needs to be very clean, the iron needs to be extremely hot, the flux very corrosive and the heat sinks most abundant (wet tissues). Don't linger and clean up thoroughly afterwards to remove the flux. Nick the inside of the washer to ensure engagement with the axle and groove its face to take the wire.

Richard

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David Thorpe
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Re: Another Round...

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:38 am

Well, on my only completed split axle project I built the loco chassis (0-6-0) in the usual way but fitted no pickups at all. Instead I built the 6-wheel tender with split axles and, as the decoder is also in the tender, it was no trouble at all wiring everything up. I also put in a 4700uf capacitor. It all works very well.

DT
Last edited by David Thorpe on Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Will L
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Re: Another Round...

Postby Will L » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:07 am

Paul

Like the J65, who's kit is that. One small hint, you have the water filer caps on the wrong way round. The screw down catch fitting goes to the front and is secured to the front face of the tank by a small bracket at the top. The Westinghouse brake cylinder/air tank under the rear buffer isn't entirely right either but hay, who can see it down there anyway.


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