Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:27 pm

Not much happening on the viaduct at the moment (due to work pressure in my case and getting Matford ready for Scaleforum in John's).

However, whilst over at John's yesterday we tried to set out as many of the pieces as we could to get more of a feel for the size and to think about next moves after September.

This shows about two thirds of the full length, with the balustrades in about the right position and full height piers shown in the middle (apologies for the quality - hand held above my head and in poor light).

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The gap between the arch sections and the balustrades is the 'track base', and between each balustrade section is a refuge. Both these components we have now also decided to have laser cut in MDF now we know what can be achieved (and what we want). Some of the panelling detail on the refuges and pavilions will also require some beading/framing to be cut by York in Rowmark (the version of plasticard that can be laser cut).

Construction proper should now be starting in October.
Rod

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:57 pm

Now that Scaleforum with Matford is out of the way, and having received some more laser cut goodies from York Model Making, John (Re6/6) and I had a productive day today towards turning all the bits into more of a kit of parts prior to assembly.

I got on with marking up the pier sections for the characteristic apertures of the Ouse Viaduct, which involved topographic profiles, Excel spreadsheets and some occasional reality checks. The apertures all start at the same top elevation but the bottom elevation is dependent on ground level and in the centre of the viaduct they extend into the plinth sections as well as the tapered upper piers.

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Here you can see the centre lines marked on some of the piers, together with top and bottom of the apertures and drill centre locations for the (41mm diameter) circular sections at the ends of the apertures.

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Meanwhile John was making jigs for batch assembly of the tapered piers

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And by the end of the day a trial cut for Pier 30 had been made

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This was our first real chance also to check on some of the latest pieces for the pavilions and refuges. Here you can see the two layers of 2mm MDF and some Rowmark 'frames' in order to represent the panelling relief on these concrete structures

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Finally we were able to lay the whole trackbed length out with the arches and some of the detailed bits, and to put a train down on it - which was somewhat dwarfed!

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But apart from the 'play' factor, this exercise was useful in spawning various ideas on construction, length of each section, joining, transportation, and so on.

And what about the rest of the project? Well, just to prevent too much inertia setting in, the bits and pieces for 'Lewes Phase 1' were purchased at Scaleforum, which covers most of this section of the station - the main junctions - and which is planned to occupy some of the oncoming winter evenings productively. Better than 'X Factor' or 'Strictly' any day! This by the way is a section of the whole Templot layout printed (rails only) on A3 sheets and loosely assembled.

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Rod

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:22 pm

The latest planning session and John's progress on cutting some of the pier apertures certainly makes for some positive vibes on this project. Apart from starting to 'look' right and give encouragement that the final product will match our ambitions for it, getting down with the actual pieces and doing 'trial fits' is a good catalyst for brainstorming and coming up with solutions for the more 'macro' construction issues.

We know from the derived table of dimensions for each pier where the apertures are, and how much of each pier/plinth is exposed above ground level. This is enabling decisions on how far the scale plinths continue below ground on the model, and design concepts for the 'base' of the viaduct - probably stepped in a series of benches just under the scenery rather than a continuous floor with many 'piers' being, like icebergs, largely hidden from view.

The whole thing including approaches is 7m long. We discussed for a while how many sections to divide it into for transport, this being a compromise between minimising joins and getting it into a car. Eventually we settled on five sections of 1.4m each, which is three essentially identical 10-arch sections in the middle and two more of 3/4 arches plus approaches at each end.

Then, where to make the join? At a pier or half way across an arch? Initially we favoured the latter, with detachable balustrades and bricked sections that could be placed to cover most of the joins. But this left little cross section left for 'purchase' at the top for joining, so we are currently planning to make the joins between the arches and have detachable piers between the upper and lower joiners. Joining below the scenery will be straightforward with dowels, bolts and pronged-Ts, but joining at the top is a bit trickier because of accessibility to attach bolts (assuming both sides are potentially on show). At the moment we are thinking along the lines of dowels and high-strength magnets to do the job.

In theory construction now could be quite rapid, although there is no particular hurry and we certainly don't want to rush it. Apart from the main construction there is then also a lot of laminating of parts to do (to make 2mm thick laser cut details into the 4mm thickness we want). So that will undoubtedly mean more jigs to make sure the parts all register properly, and lots of PVAing.

Most of the basic brickwork will use Slaters English bond, but the arch sections (top and bottom of the pier apertures as well) are being etched in brass. Then there's the bracket supports for the refuges - not essential for the structure, but important nonetheless, and probably a casting job, either resin or whitemetal.

There is also a bit of detailed brickwork - 'beading' for want of a better term - which is still causing a bit of head-scratching. I'd like to think there would be something suitable from the world of dolls houses but we haven't found anything yet. Could be down to plastruct angle section filled in with Miliput or similar.

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(these are from the piers at the other end of the viaduct from the photo above)

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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:20 pm

John and I were planning on going up to Sussex yesterday to get some more detail photos (at the time of the last trip we weren't planning on doing the whole viaduct) but in view of the weather we decided to postpone and get some other planning issues out of the way.

One of these was to confirm the distribution of the board sections making up the viaduct and its approaches, and on laying the trackbed laser-cut sections out we decided finally on:

Approach section with 4 arches (1.4m)
10-arch section (1.4m)
9-arch section (1.26m)
10-arch section (1.4m)
Approach section with 4 arches (1.4m)

So the configuration is basically symmetrical with four of the boards of the same length and the centre board shorter by the amount of one arch.

We then annotated all the track bed boards for cutting, including the scheme for overlapping (the 3mm boards have to be laminated together to make a 6mm track bed).

Having done this, we could now start to think about the vertical design of the boards, which will probably 'step down' progressively from each end to the centre as the topography falls.

Meanwhile, drawings are well advanced for production of etches for the curved brickwork sections for the main arches and pier apertures.

As for the field trip - maybe we'll do that in the Spring when the weather is better and the days longer, and probably make it an overnighter to avoid 8 hours of driving all in a single day. Stopping over in the vicinity of the Eridge layout on club night is a distinct possibility!
Rod

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Re6/6
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Re6/6 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:42 am

Progress is being made slowly. All the piers and plinths have now been made. The 'signature' holes have been cut out.

The next thing will be fixing them together, glueing on the plasticard brickwork and making up the first full section of the viaduct proper.
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The piers and plinths are yet to be joined and fettled, padded out where necessary prior to fixing the plasticard and etched arch tops and bottoms.
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All the necessary plinths are shown (on the left) and half of the piers.
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John

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:29 pm

Yesterday, amongst other things, we made some trial assemblies and placements for the balustrades and refuges on one of the viaduct track bed surfaces. This involved the laminating together of 2mm thick MDF parts from the York Modelmaking collection - of which there will be much more!

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Here's some reminders of the real thing:

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Copings and plinths will need to be added, and we're still thinking about the refuge support brackets.
Rod

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:27 pm

Consolidated version of the 'story so far' in the new RMWeb showcase section http://www.rmweb.co.uk/showcase/?p=1954
Rod

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Andy W
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Andy W » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:31 pm

Looking good Rod
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:45 pm

Now that the presence of the viaduct in embryo form at Scaleforum has been announced in Scalefour News, as part of the themed demonstration on modelling BR Southern, it's probably time for some more photos of progress:

Joining sections:

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Three out of five starting to take proper shape:

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Pier detail evolving:

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Prototype pavilion with roof resin cast by Mark from KAG:

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Corbels 3D printed by Shapeways after design work by Mark:

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Rod

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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Re6/6 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:25 pm

No 3 centre section has now been clad in plastic card and primer painting has been done.
Still some fettling to be done and various decorative mouldings to cover pier/arch joins and concrete corbels and brickwork to be added.

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classic view!
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Shows approximate ground contour.
John

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iak
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby iak » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:39 pm

That is one serious bridge :shock:
WOW!!! VERY impressive
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:47 pm

Some more photos today showing progress on the pavilions and balustrades (using ply sleeper strip for the 'plinths').

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DougN
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby DougN » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:50 am

Again this is an epic build. The old slanging match of P4 shunting planks will be destroyed for ever after this and JSW's layout hit the circuit. I really look forward to seeign some of this at Scalefourum. Makes my thoughts of a 9ft diameter Donut rather small and insignificant!
Doug
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Terry Bendall
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:25 am

DougN wrote:The old slanging match of P4 shunting planks will be destroyed for ever after this and JSW's layout hit the circuit. I really look forward to seeign some of this at Scalefourum.


And that of course is one reason why they will both be there so hopefully lots of people will come along and see the models which so far most of us have only seen on web sites.

DougN wrote:Makes my thoughts of a 9ft diameter Donut rather small and insignificant!


But of course equally valid and worth while. Few people have the space, time or courage to built the likes of Balcombe Viaduct or BNS but the fact that some people do is great. Equally the small shunting plank can represent just as much of an achievement for some people and we will have Croft Depot and Fish Dock Road along as examples of small layouts that are perhaps more easily achievable.

Terry Bendall

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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby DougN » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:45 am

Totally agree Terry, My thought is for as small as possible continuous run. about 400 wide with an external diameter of about 2700 to 3000mm. Valid yes, life long layout "no". One person small and acheiveable is what I am aiming at and the likes of this Viaduct and BNS...nuff said. All strength to them. Roll on Scalefourum.

It does beg the question how much rolling stock is required for a small, medium, large, BNS OVBLP. Sized project?
Doug
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Terry Bendall
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:43 am

DougN wrote:It does beg the question how much rolling stock is required for a small, medium, large, BNS OVBLP. Sized project?


In my experience the main limiting factor is the amount of room in the fiddle yard, assuming of course you have such a thing, which most people do. There will usually be some trains on the layout but unless you have a system of one train going out of the fiddle yard, which is then replaced by one coming in, you need a bit of spare caapacity. There is of course the important fact of what are you trying to portray and how much stock do you need to do that successfully.

Pulborough (pre-Grouping LBSC) has traverser type fiddle yards that will take trains 7 feet long and there are 10 roads on each one. Not all of the trains are that long but one or two are. After 25 years we now have sufficient trains to run the layout and to give a good representation of the period and these now appear on Brighton Road which uses a cassette system.

On Ravenscroft Sidings (NE England c1988) we have a 6 road traverser fiddle yard at each end and these will take trains 5 feet long, including the loco, so much more limiting but one of the constraints was that the layout should be transportable in a car. (D&E Challenge rules) We are now almost on capacity and will call it a day when the fiddle yard is full.

How much stock you are able to build or convert in the time available will also limit things.

Terry Bendall

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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby jim s-w » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:01 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:
DougN wrote:It does beg the question how much rolling stock is required for a small, medium, large, BNS OVBLP. Sized project?


In my experience the main limiting factor is the amount of room in the fiddle yard, assuming of course you have such a thing, which most people do.


Not in our case. There are 4 9 road fiddle yards each a minimum of 30 feet long meaning capacity for about 1000 mk 3 coaches.

Cheers

Jim

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:36 pm

DougN wrote:One person small and acheiveable is what I am aiming at and the likes of this Viaduct and BNS...nuff said. All strength to them. Roll on Scalefourum.

It does beg the question how much rolling stock is required for a small, medium, large, BNS OVBLP. Sized project?


Well, there's only two of us involved in directly building the viaduct, although we have a growing number of friends who have chipped in from afar - Jim Smith-Wright and Mark Leigh to name but two.

As for stock, most trains will be EMUs on an interval service, and because they will be going at a scale 75mph you won't be able to read the unit numbers to tell that actually we only have one of each :mrgreen:

But seriously ... on the steam hauled services we can share some stock with Eridge (if they let us ;) ), but of course there will be heavy reliance on converted RTR and kits for the EMUs, which thankfully are becoming more and more available.
Rod

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Will L
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Will L » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:38 pm

jim s-w wrote:Not in our case. There are 4 * 9 road fiddle yards each a minimum of 30 feet long meaning capacity for about 1000 mk 3 coaches.


Sounds like you must have quite a stock building/conversion program to come! And deep pockets as that's better than £5000 just in replacement wheels :!:

Will

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:43 pm

Six weeks to Scaleforum, and the London end is really starting to take final shape. The corbels (brackets) for the refuges are preliminary versions, more detailed ones are on the way.

We also now have the stripwood for making the copings for the balustrades. In due course the levels of the pavilions and balustrades will be adjusted to get the relative levels of pavilion and train absolutely right (something also affected by the track and ballasting configuration).

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Rod

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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Re6/6 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:34 pm

A few snaps of the 'London' pavilions section with experimental primer.
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The first resin cast brackets to be replaced in due course.
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At this stage all the constituent assemblies are still to be correctly positioned and permanently glued.
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John

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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Re6/6 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:17 pm

Some more progress. Much experimenting on the mortar course 'grouting' was done under the guidance of Tim Maddocks. Several paint combinations/types and finally Games Workshop 'Citadel' acrylics came out as the most user friendly and best for speed of application/process, considering the amount that has to be done!

The resin cast corbels are only temporarily attached and are to be replaced with ones from Shapeways 3D printed ones in due course.

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The top structures in grey primer prior to being finished with a beige colour to represent the Caen stone.


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John

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:56 pm

These are probably the last photos before Scaleforum in (gulp) three weeks time (well we have to leave something in anticipation!). Just to add to John's earlier photos here are some showing the early stages of terraforming and a bit more detail appearing on the balustrades - still in workshop photographic grey - in the form of limewood strip to represent the coping.

At this (London) end the viaduct continues onto an embankment before rejoining the background topography; at the Brighton end the land rises more gradually from the valley floor to the higher ground to the south.

If you get to Scaleforum please drop by and say hello.

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David Knight
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby David Knight » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:22 pm

Rod,

Just out of curiosity, how much will each section of the viaduct weigh once all the scenic bits have been added?

Cheers,

David

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:34 pm

No idea David - John and I were pleasantly surprised how little it weighs in its current status, but fibreglass/plaster will add a bit certainly. But what you see now still needs an underframe because the ends of the viaduct are higher than the centre. We might weigh them when they're finished!
Rod


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