Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
User avatar
Rod Cameron
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Ouse Viaduct/Balcombe/Lewes project

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:07 pm

John Farmer (Re6/6) and I had been thinking about Balcombe (Brighton main line) as a modular end-to-end layout on which we could run full-length EMUs such as 6PUL/6PAN etc including a representation of the Ouse Viaduct. None of these tiny shunting planks for us! ;) I then thought about the attraction of seeing these trains snake over some nice P4 trackwork, and Lewes floated into my head again, as it is wont to on occasions like this.

So, having Templotted Balcombe

Balcombe templot.jpg
Balcombe templot.jpg (55.4 KiB) Viewed 8999 times


(OS map is over 50 years old so out of copyright)

I then had a go at Lewes - 'just for a bit of fun' you understand

Lewes templot.jpg
Lewes templot.jpg (145.53 KiB) Viewed 8999 times


and thought wouldn't it be great to join this on to Balcombe and see those trains traverse the junctions from the London end to the Newhaven end and vice-versa? But then it would leave two stub ends and a possible lost opportunity to run trains on the route between the Oxted lines and Brighton. So, in a moment of inspiration/madness I came up with the following 'structure' which would enable all four lines at Lewes to be used.

World1.jpg
World1.jpg (24.45 KiB) Viewed 8999 times


The "Brighton" fiddle yard is double-ended, so that it can receive trains from the Oxted lines via Lewes, and also Brighton-bound trains on the main line which would 'disappear' after crossing the viaduct.

Still with us? People who know my background might guess what's coming next - instead of just having a fiddle yard for the Oxted lines, what about joining the Eridge layout on? And so I arrived at

World2withEridge.jpg
World2withEridge.jpg (27.48 KiB) Viewed 8999 times


Now to have all these joined together in an exhibition would be a fairly gargantuan affair, but we're quite serious at having a go at this (the Eridge team think we're mad, but haven't said no in principle - we'd use the Eridge stock in any case! ). Baseboards for Balcombe itself are being designed, and I'm planning on getting started on the trackwork in Lewes later this year just to get some momentum going.

Should all keep us busy for a while!
Last edited by Rod Cameron on Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rod

Brinkly
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Brinkly » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:23 pm

Cracking plan Rod, if you need a hand shout and I'll come running! ;) Such a massive project that could develop!

Regards,

Nick

David Knight
Posts: 631
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby David Knight » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:22 am

Not so far fetched as you might think. There are Freemo modular layouts on this side of the pond that could be comparable in ambition; http://www.casofreemo.org/ and working one module at a time spreads the load out. Plus, it is so much more interesting than a roundy-roundy innit? (all due respect to Mostyn et al). :wink:

Cheers,

David

User avatar
Andy C
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:29 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Andy C » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:40 am

Whatever you have been drinking Rod, I'll have a pint :D

Do like the idea though and Lewes would definately make a very different and interesting model indeed on its own. Go for it.

User avatar
Mike Garwood
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Mike Garwood » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:59 pm

Completely barking...I love it! Now for the sleepless nights wondering if you can get it to work. Wish you every success. Is all of this going to be built by the DRAGsters?

regards

Mike

User avatar
Rod Cameron
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:43 pm

Mike Garwood wrote:Is all of this going to be built by the DRAGsters?


It's not a DRAG project as such Mike, any more than Matford, Callow Lane etc, but if any other DRAG members want to chip in that would be fine. There'll be plenty of track and scenery to do, and if someone fancies building a P4 6PUL or two ... ;) :mrgreen:
Rod

Terry Bendall
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:09 am

Of course if you were to set the layout in the 1910 period the Mid Sussex group could fill the layout with LBSC stock. At the noment we, mainly Barry Luck, have more coaching stock than will fit on Pulborough or Brighton Road, our new layout (see it at Scaleforum this year). A Brighton Atlantic with 11 coaches behind would look very impressive on the viaduct, but then so would any type of train. Anyone for plug-in 3rd rail?

I will reserve you a slot at Scaleforum for when the grand plan is finished - say 2025? You could fill most of the hall.

But get Eridge finished first!

Terry Bendall

User avatar
Re6/6
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:53 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Re6/6 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:42 am

Terry Bendall wrote:.....I will reserve you a slot at Scaleforum for when the grand plan is finished - say 2025? You could fill most of the hall.



...now that's what I call a challenge! ;)

The first planning meeting takes place this weekend. :D
John

User avatar
Andy C
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:29 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Andy C » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:56 pm

Carry on planning Rod, and a large slot will be reserved you at Manchester! (But bring Eridge first of course!)

User avatar
LesGros
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby LesGros » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:50 pm

Hi Y'All,

I have read about NTRAK modules (n gauge), where a set of published standards is used so that participants can gather together in a similar way to that described by Rod.

How about using this collaborative project as a vehicle for establishing a similar set of Scalefour Society module connection standards?

regards
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

User avatar
Mark Tatlow
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Mark Tatlow » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:57 pm

Travis Perkins' share price is up today.................

Do I assume you have ordered the wood for the baseboards Rod?
Mark Tatlow

User avatar
John Bateson
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:39 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby John Bateson » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:43 pm

http://free-mo.org/

The concept began in Europe though

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Free-mo

and

http://www.fremo-net.eu/index.php?id=23&L=6

Perhaps we should wait for the Americans to slap a patent on it since they have added an exra 'e' to the title.

John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
http://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

User avatar
LesGros
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby LesGros » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:01 pm

John Bateson wrote:http://free-mo.org/

Perhaps we should wait for the Americans to slap a patent on it since they have added an exra 'e' to the title.

John


Hi John,

Why wait for the americans? :)
... or have they started to build in P4?
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

User avatar
Rod Cameron
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:19 am

Thanks for all the positive feedback chaps, and for the pencilled 'invites'! Rest assured that Eridge is an independent project, with different people (apart from me) and location. So Balcombe et al won't impact on the Eridge programme, except that for obvious reasons we might go for the same height!
Rod

User avatar
Rod Cameron
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:52 pm

John (Re6/6) and I had a very constructive day today planning some layout configurations out and deciding on a few design criteria. More of that later, except that I did check with David Lane how big the hall is at Railex! ;)

Meanwhile here are some photos of EMUs on the short-term version of the Ouse Viaduct which will form one of the centrepieces.

4CEP comfortably dwarfed: the short-term version was built by the late Nigel Hunt for his home layout and is about 8 ft long overall with 14 arches - the longer-term bespoke version will be to scale, with 37 arches.

100321 002.jpg
100321 002.jpg (69.73 KiB) Viewed 8639 times


OK, it's a 5CEP with a Hornby Pullman, but you can imagine a 6PUL can't you?

100321 005.jpg
100321 005.jpg (95.56 KiB) Viewed 8639 times


100321 006.jpg
100321 006.jpg (73.04 KiB) Viewed 8639 times


100321 007.jpg
100321 007.jpg (42.45 KiB) Viewed 8639 times
Rod

User avatar
Rod Cameron
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:00 pm

A bit more meat on the bone now from the previous 'vague' dimensions.

We've dispensed with the idea of a common 'Brighton' fiddleyard fed from both the north and from the Lewes Brighton platform, mainly because of the tight curves needed to get to/from the latter. Instead we have a separate shorter fiddle yard of 8ft for 'Brighton' on the basis that through trains via Lewes would only be loco + 4 coaches + van from Eridge (which also assumes an 8ft FY) or short coast route trains from Eastbourne.

We have also incorporated a 14ft hidden section between Lewes and the viaduct, which can simulate Lewes tunnel and also provide a couple of storage loops to 'hide' Brighton main line services. In exhibition this can also provide space on the front for information displays and even a 'time buffer' by holding trains for a minute or so to give an impression of greater distance travelled.

config210310.jpg
config210310.jpg (19.2 KiB) Viewed 8611 times


If the full ensemble ever made it to fruition, we'd be looking at 126 ft top to bottom and 73 ft left to right. Just for context the main hall at Railex measures 160 ft x 120 ft (thanks David ).

However, the beauty of this is that it can be built and/or exhibited in many configurations. The first component likely to see the light of day will be FY + scenic section + Balcombe + scenic section + viaduct + FY, totalling a mere 92 ft, or the first scenic section could be omitted to give 80 ft. This also assumes a new bespoke scale Ouse Viaduct - the current short-term one is only 8 ft long.

Another alternative would be Brighton FY + Lewes + scenic + Eridge + FY, with additional FYs on the London and Eastbourne lines out of Lewes. Total 73 ft x 44 ft.
Rod

User avatar
Mark Tatlow
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:45 pm

Rod,

If I were an exhibition manager, I would be a bit concerned as to the two fiddle yards that stick out (Newhaven and Brighton). They stick out and intrude into the visitor space.

Is there any way that one at least can be wrapped alongside or below the scenic boards? The Brighton one in particular seemed the most realistic to do this if you did not curve the diverging lines quite so vigerously.

There are a number of exhibition managers on the list, do they see this as a problem too?
Mark Tatlow

User avatar
Rod Cameron
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:51 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:If I were an exhibition manager, I would be a bit concerned as to the two fiddle yards that stick out (Newhaven and Brighton). They stick out and intrude into the visitor space.

Is there any way that one at least can be wrapped alongside or below the scenic boards? The Brighton one in particular seemed the most realistic to do this if you did not curve the diverging lines quite so vigerously.


Mark

Nothing is yet cast in stone, extent of protrusion and angle is to an extent subject to where we have the scenic break within the Lewes layout. We don't want to change the curvatures in Lewes because it is so central to the essence of the station. To be more imaginative though, and assuming the hall is big enough, there is no reason why the 'L' cant extend out nearer the middle of the hall with another layout back below it (behind Eridge). It doesn't have to be pushed into a corner.
Rod

User avatar
Mark Tatlow
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:46 pm

Rod Cameron wrote: assuming the hall is big enough, there is no reason why the 'L' cant extend out nearer the middle of the hall with another layout back below it (behind Eridge). It doesn't have to be pushed into a corner.


I love the approach to a problem to be "come up with a grander scheme..........."
Mark Tatlow

User avatar
LesGros
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby LesGros » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:01 pm

Mark Tatlow

I love the approach to a problem to be "come up with a grander scheme...........


... Only to be expected, given the title of the thread :D
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

User avatar
Rod Cameron
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:08 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:
Rod Cameron wrote: assuming the hall is big enough, there is no reason why the 'L' cant extend out nearer the middle of the hall with another layout back below it (behind Eridge). It doesn't have to be pushed into a corner.


I love the approach to a problem to be "come up with a grander scheme..........."


:?: What problem Mark? Don't you think that if such a layout was achieved that exhibition organisers might be a bit flexible in accommodating it? And I haven't come up with a grander scheme, it's the same scheme with a bit of imagination applied to it. And there are many more configurations of the various components that might be applicable to smaller venues.

Maybe I should just drop the whole idea of pushing P4 horizons and go back to thinking of another shunting plank then ...

EDIT - Mark and I have since communicated offline and there was some misinterpretation between his emoticon-less posts and my perception of them - all peaceful now! ;) 8-)
Last edited by Rod Cameron on Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rod

User avatar
Andy C
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:29 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Andy C » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:08 pm

From the exhibition managers view I can see several ways around the issue, a lot will depend on which side viewing is from. there is scope for putting "plank" style layouts back to back and even a roundy roundy in the big square bottom right - again it all depends on opertor space / viewing, but given enough space (and theres only very few shows got that), it is doable. I wouldnt have second thoughts about putting it in, in the same vein that i wouldnt have second thoughts if Roy Jackson asked me if i wanted Retford in!

End of the day its would be spectacular, and not only that being done by a crew in whom Ive every confidence that the layout would work - the only drawback is would it be capable of keeping things moving enough to entertain joe public? theres been some good looking big layouts on the circuit, but because of their size/ length not a lot happens on them for the most part. There are two particularly monotonous N gauge layouts on the circuit at the moment which are good examples of this - around 50 foot of scenic plus, with only two things moving on them at best - but looking at the plans here I suspect several separate entities which would get over the problem.

User avatar
Mike Garwood
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Mike Garwood » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:43 pm

Rod
Part of the reason that I got into P4 modelling was because of the challenges that it presented. There are those of us who will always want to push the envelope that little bit further. Others will not and will be content with their own standards, fine, this is a mixed church after all. Frankly, in my own opinion, shunting planks, unless really well done, bore the pants off joe public, this project will blow their socks off! I can't wait to see what will actually come out of the planning stage.

regards

Mike

User avatar
Rod Cameron
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Rod Cameron » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:53 pm

Thanks Andy and Mike, appreciated :D

Andy, I can well understand that such large contraptions need careful operation in exhibitions to do them justice while entertaining the public, and hopefully we will end up with something appropriate. Inevitably bits will be added (and hopefully exhibited) 'slice by slice', partly because of the time it will take, but also to prove the concept execution as we develop rather than by springing the whole lot on a largely unsuspecting public at once - even though that would be good crac ;) . So we should be well rehearsed in the operational issues by the time we get to the final full version.

Most traffic will be in two streams, crossing at Lewes - electrics from Balcombe to Eastbourne/Newhaven, and steam from the Oxted lines to Brighton - with a bit of mixing of the two for inter-regional excursions, boat trains etc.

It looks like the first bit to be launched will be the viaduct, probably in its full scale representation (all 37 arches and 20 ft of it). We'll keep you all informed of progress!
Rod

User avatar
Re6/6
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:53 pm

Re: Tomorrow Balcombe, the day after the world!

Postby Re6/6 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:55 pm

Andy, they'll be no shortage of train movements, although that's something we haven't concentrated on yet, but there will be The Brighton Belle EMU (10BEL) 6PUL/6PANs, 12CEPs plus all the usual slow and semi-fast first generation EMUs Class 71s, CCI, various steam hauled excursion traffic, freight etc.. but thanks, it's a point well made, but well down the road ATM!

Presently, we're making a 1/10th scale plan/3Dmock up, to get an overall feel for it. The key to it all, as we see it, complete flexibility from the smallest combination to the 'full monty', to give EMs the choice.
John


Return to “Layouts and Operations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests