Edington Junction
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Re: Edington Junction
Hi All. Brimley it's been over a year since my last update. I would like to say lots have been done over that year but I'm not going to lie to you. LOL. So what's been going on?
Well I have have a completed backscene all installed which will enable me to start the scenery process. The track is about 90% reliable as is the wiring and electrics etc. I'm now confident enough to start adding the cosmetic chairs and ballasting etc. I've also installed the mechanics for operating the level crossing and have finished rebuilding the gates but wont install these until the scenery is a bit more advanced. As I've never tackled doing any scenic work this will be a slow process as I learn on the job. I have made up a small test board to help me with the learning process.
Here are a some images of the level crossing gates that I rebuilt. They will need some weathering and the crossing lamps but they are still being worked on.
All Best
Dave
Well I have have a completed backscene all installed which will enable me to start the scenery process. The track is about 90% reliable as is the wiring and electrics etc. I'm now confident enough to start adding the cosmetic chairs and ballasting etc. I've also installed the mechanics for operating the level crossing and have finished rebuilding the gates but wont install these until the scenery is a bit more advanced. As I've never tackled doing any scenic work this will be a slow process as I learn on the job. I have made up a small test board to help me with the learning process.
Here are a some images of the level crossing gates that I rebuilt. They will need some weathering and the crossing lamps but they are still being worked on.
All Best
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
Actually I reckon you are proceeding at an admirably rapid pace. Your output in 3-4 years is impressive.
Scenery is great fun for learning on the job as mistakes are more easily corrected than in, say, a loco chassis or paint spray job.
I look forward to a trip towards Kent and a viewing next year ?
Scenery is great fun for learning on the job as mistakes are more easily corrected than in, say, a loco chassis or paint spray job.
I look forward to a trip towards Kent and a viewing next year ?
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Re: Edington Junction
Thanks Paul. Your more than welcome.
Dave
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
Evening All. An update on my progess on Edington is well overdue, however this isn't an update.
I've started the scenic work but before I can start laying static grass, hedges trees etc I need to ballast the track in an area that will be hard to get to once the scenics are applied. As I've never done any ballasting before I thought I'll ballast some track in a more accessible area before enduring kneeing on the baseboards and learing forwards in a very awkward position for hours on end.
I first laid down the ash for the cess area {this has been glued down} and once dried I then added the ballast {I've not glued this yet}. I would be greatful for feedback on my efforts please. To me I think the outer edge of the ballast should be more neater. I quite enjoyed tampping the ballast down and making sure there was a gap between the bottom of the rail and the ballast. However this joy will soon wain after ballasting several meters of track. LOL.
Again please let me know what you think.
All Best
Dave
I've started the scenic work but before I can start laying static grass, hedges trees etc I need to ballast the track in an area that will be hard to get to once the scenics are applied. As I've never done any ballasting before I thought I'll ballast some track in a more accessible area before enduring kneeing on the baseboards and learing forwards in a very awkward position for hours on end.
I first laid down the ash for the cess area {this has been glued down} and once dried I then added the ballast {I've not glued this yet}. I would be greatful for feedback on my efforts please. To me I think the outer edge of the ballast should be more neater. I quite enjoyed tampping the ballast down and making sure there was a gap between the bottom of the rail and the ballast. However this joy will soon wain after ballasting several meters of track. LOL.
Again please let me know what you think.
All Best
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
https://www.sdrt.org/product/edington-burtle-view-towards-highbridge-11-10-65/
https://www.sdrt.org/product/edington-burtle-view-of-station-on-last-day-06-03-66/
http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/railco/sdjr/bason.html
https://www.sdrt.org/product/bason-bridge-station-looking-east-05-08-62/
The cess was part of a layer which extended under the main ballast, and was normally of much very smaller stones than the main ballast, or even just ash. Ballast when first applied is both clean and tidy, with neat[ish] shoulders, but under regular use ballast moves because of the vibration, and gets dirty [which may cause its perceived colour to vary significantly over quite short distances]. Also, ballast from different sources may well vary a lot in colour according to the type of stone involved - not all ballast started out the same colour. Don't compare with current practices, as higher speeds and heavier rail sections require much deeper ballast, with wider shoulders outside the sleepers; in steam days main lines were generally better ballasted and maintained than secondary lines, and branches, for much the same reason.
https://www.sdrt.org/product/edington-burtle-view-of-station-on-last-day-06-03-66/
http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/railco/sdjr/bason.html
https://www.sdrt.org/product/bason-bridge-station-looking-east-05-08-62/
The cess was part of a layer which extended under the main ballast, and was normally of much very smaller stones than the main ballast, or even just ash. Ballast when first applied is both clean and tidy, with neat[ish] shoulders, but under regular use ballast moves because of the vibration, and gets dirty [which may cause its perceived colour to vary significantly over quite short distances]. Also, ballast from different sources may well vary a lot in colour according to the type of stone involved - not all ballast started out the same colour. Don't compare with current practices, as higher speeds and heavier rail sections require much deeper ballast, with wider shoulders outside the sleepers; in steam days main lines were generally better ballasted and maintained than secondary lines, and branches, for much the same reason.
Regards
Noel
Noel
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Re: Edington Junction
Thanks Noel. The ash I used does seem too big compared with the main ballast. So I'll remove it and grind it smaller or even use Chinchilla dust and recolour it. As for the main ballast, obviously I haven't weathered it yet but what I don't like is the uneveness of the edge of the ballast shoulder. According to the Soceity's Digest the ballast should extend 2' from the sleeper end to the outer edge of the shoulder {1' ballast and 1' shoulder}. I agree that the ballasting would not be pristine and the outer edge would spill over into the cess etc, but I want to try and make it look better than what I have done here.
All Best
Dave
All Best
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
Hi Dave
I agree with all that.
I can't see from your pics the relative height of cess and ballast. I've seen lots of useful stuff on Templot like this https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?t ... edges.561/
I'm not saying this as an expert - I didn’t even know what a cess was till starting my own layout! Which I think means for me it's the bit you don't notice
The other thing I'd say is I wonder if you've got a tad too much ballast so that it's almost spilling over the sleepers, and whether a little less would give a bit more clearance under the rail? Again slightly difficult to see from photo angles.
Of course the colouring will make a huge difference to how it is perceived.
I agree with all that.
I can't see from your pics the relative height of cess and ballast. I've seen lots of useful stuff on Templot like this https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?t ... edges.561/
I'm not saying this as an expert - I didn’t even know what a cess was till starting my own layout! Which I think means for me it's the bit you don't notice
The other thing I'd say is I wonder if you've got a tad too much ballast so that it's almost spilling over the sleepers, and whether a little less would give a bit more clearance under the rail? Again slightly difficult to see from photo angles.
Of course the colouring will make a huge difference to how it is perceived.
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Re: Edington Junction
Dave,
It looks like you're heading in the right direction, but as has been pointed out, the ash in the cess is a bit coarse.
Cheers
Phil.
It looks like you're heading in the right direction, but as has been pointed out, the ash in the cess is a bit coarse.
Cheers
Phil.
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Re: Edington Junction
Hi Julian and Phil. Thanks for your input. I've acted on your advice and this morning I've hovered up the ballast and then removed the cess. This scrapped off quite easily. Another positive from this is that I can repaint this area with a grey paint rather than leaving it green. The green did show through the ash in some areas. I've started to crush down the ash to make it finer {not a fun job}.
Julian. When I relay the ballast I'll try and make sure I reduce the amount of ballast between the sleepers so it's not right up to the top of them. I was very particular about making sure there was a gap between the bottom of the rail and the top of the ballast. I used a Tamiya stiring stick, which is the right width and depth to poke under the rail to flatten the ballast.
I'll post on my progess once I've ground down enough ash.
All Best
Dave
Julian. When I relay the ballast I'll try and make sure I reduce the amount of ballast between the sleepers so it's not right up to the top of them. I was very particular about making sure there was a gap between the bottom of the rail and the top of the ballast. I used a Tamiya stiring stick, which is the right width and depth to poke under the rail to flatten the ballast.
I'll post on my progess once I've ground down enough ash.
All Best
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
Hi again Dave
For your interest did you see this? James Walters newly of this parish has lots of interesting ideas on his Bexhill West channel. I'm certainly interested in trying this when I get to that stage.
https://youtu.be/cBh__IHYXkU
For your interest did you see this? James Walters newly of this parish has lots of interesting ideas on his Bexhill West channel. I'm certainly interested in trying this when I get to that stage.
https://youtu.be/cBh__IHYXkU
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Re: Edington Junction
The WR took over the northern section of the S&D in 1958, which might have affected where the ballast came from. The nearest WR quarry was probably Whitecliff in the forest of Dean, which produced limestone, which is very pale when first quarried, but, being porous, readily darkens from atmospheric pollution. Would the WR would have done more than essential spot repairs on this line prior to closure? Before the takeover the ballasting would, I think, have been done by the SR, whose main source of ballast was Meldon Quarry, which produced granite.
Regards
Noel
Noel
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Re: Edington Junction
Hi All. I've ground down the ash and relaid it but I'm now doubting myslef over the choice of ballast I brought.
I brought the ballast from Attwood Aggregates, telling them what line I was modelling etc, and they recconmended their DS range as this came from the quarry that used to supply the S&D orrignally. I thought if it's good enough for the S&D then it's good enough for me.
I remember thinking it does look rather light in colour but looking at period images both colour and black and white I convinced myself it would be okay once it's weathered etc. But now I'm not too shure.
What I might do is a lay some ballast on a piece of track and weather it to see how it turns out. Any imput and advice would be most welcome.
All Best
Dave
I brought the ballast from Attwood Aggregates, telling them what line I was modelling etc, and they recconmended their DS range as this came from the quarry that used to supply the S&D orrignally. I thought if it's good enough for the S&D then it's good enough for me.
I remember thinking it does look rather light in colour but looking at period images both colour and black and white I convinced myself it would be okay once it's weathered etc. But now I'm not too shure.
What I might do is a lay some ballast on a piece of track and weather it to see how it turns out. Any imput and advice would be most welcome.
All Best
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
Dave
I'm using Atwood Aggregates Dulcote Stone ballast extensively for Cheddar, since this was also the stone used for the line. You're right in that it is light in colour and probably the same colour as freshly crushed rock. In reality, the effect of weathering and oxidation would soon turn the ballast a darker colour.
I intend to apply a weathering to the entire layout when all the ballast is down for consistency
I'm using Atwood Aggregates Dulcote Stone ballast extensively for Cheddar, since this was also the stone used for the line. You're right in that it is light in colour and probably the same colour as freshly crushed rock. In reality, the effect of weathering and oxidation would soon turn the ballast a darker colour.
I intend to apply a weathering to the entire layout when all the ballast is down for consistency
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Re: Edington Junction
Hi Andrew, thanks for your reply. This has helped restore confidences in my choice of ballast.
I agree that this type of stone would weathering and darkenering down once processed from it's raw state, even when left in piles or in wagons etc, a certain amount of discolouration/oxidadtion would have taken place.
I plan on laying the ballast in two stages. The first laying ballast over the sleepers to just past their ends. The second will be laying the ballsat shoulder. The idea is I'll have a hard edge to form the ballast shoulder against. The first bit of ballasting I have to do is on the Highbridge line {Highbridge Loco}, once laid I'll have to weather the track and ballast straight away as once the scenics are applied this will be a difficult aera to get to. I may have to do the same on the Bridgewater branch as well, from the scenic break to Chilton Drove Crossing.
Thanks for sharing your images of Cheddar, somthing for me to aim for {I hope}. I particularly like the area between the tracks in the second image.
All Best
Dave
I agree that this type of stone would weathering and darkenering down once processed from it's raw state, even when left in piles or in wagons etc, a certain amount of discolouration/oxidadtion would have taken place.
I plan on laying the ballast in two stages. The first laying ballast over the sleepers to just past their ends. The second will be laying the ballsat shoulder. The idea is I'll have a hard edge to form the ballast shoulder against. The first bit of ballasting I have to do is on the Highbridge line {Highbridge Loco}, once laid I'll have to weather the track and ballast straight away as once the scenics are applied this will be a difficult aera to get to. I may have to do the same on the Bridgewater branch as well, from the scenic break to Chilton Drove Crossing.
Thanks for sharing your images of Cheddar, somthing for me to aim for {I hope}. I particularly like the area between the tracks in the second image.
All Best
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
Morning All.
A bit of a update on my layout. I would like to say that I've really cracked on and got tons of scenery done etc but I'm not going to lie to you. However I have started the scenics but I've come to the conclusion I'm crap at it. Give me an inside motion of a 4f to make, no problem. Ask me to make a tree, I hide under my workbench if fear. LOL.
After a couple of months of make hedges, trees and bushes etc for the 3D effect on the backscene. I needed a break. So I decided to make on of the two fiddle yards I'm going to need. The easiest one to tackle first would be the Bridgwater branch fiddle yard as this is a terminating type. I based around two loops with storage sidings and headshunts at either end. The line closest to the edge of the baseboard is the arrival line, the middle line is a departure line. The far right line is an extra run round line and also has a point that will connect up to the other fiddle yard when I build it and or possibly a turntable. Whilst doing this I had to upgrade my point/signal control system to be able to operate the new fiddle yard. I changed overy my Megapoint System 1 to their System 2. The new system is WiFi computable so one installed you can adjust it vis a PC or mobile device. The image shows me in the process of testing the set up before installation.
Hopefully my next update I'll have more to show in the scenic department, once I get over my fear of scatter material.
All Best
Dave
A bit of a update on my layout. I would like to say that I've really cracked on and got tons of scenery done etc but I'm not going to lie to you. However I have started the scenics but I've come to the conclusion I'm crap at it. Give me an inside motion of a 4f to make, no problem. Ask me to make a tree, I hide under my workbench if fear. LOL.
After a couple of months of make hedges, trees and bushes etc for the 3D effect on the backscene. I needed a break. So I decided to make on of the two fiddle yards I'm going to need. The easiest one to tackle first would be the Bridgwater branch fiddle yard as this is a terminating type. I based around two loops with storage sidings and headshunts at either end. The line closest to the edge of the baseboard is the arrival line, the middle line is a departure line. The far right line is an extra run round line and also has a point that will connect up to the other fiddle yard when I build it and or possibly a turntable. Whilst doing this I had to upgrade my point/signal control system to be able to operate the new fiddle yard. I changed overy my Megapoint System 1 to their System 2. The new system is WiFi computable so one installed you can adjust it vis a PC or mobile device. The image shows me in the process of testing the set up before installation.
Hopefully my next update I'll have more to show in the scenic department, once I get over my fear of scatter material.
All Best
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
End of year update.
Happy New Year to you all. I was hoping I would have a lot to update on the progress of my layout, but no. I still have a mental block on doing the scenic side of things. I think it's mainly due to lack of confidence. Still lets be positive and here's what I have done over 2023.
On actual scenic stuff I have completed the first layer of scenics by adding a 3D effect of attaching trees and hedges to the backscene. The aim of this is to help push back the backscene giving greater depth of perception. Obviously this will be realised once more layers of scenics are added. I've also started mocking up hedges and started making lots and lots of trees.
Bridgwater Fiddle Yard.
I'm very pleased in how the Bridgwater fiddle yard turned out. Overall it works very well bringing trains in, preparing and departing trains. I have yet to install electro-magnets due to not being able to get them at a reasonable cost.
I was hoping to get a passing loop temporarily installed on the main fiddle yard, just to create a bit more playability.
New Point Control System.
I also installed a new control system for the points and signaling. Adding the fiddle yards meant that I would have to expand at some point. So I took the plunge and replaced the control system on the scenic with the new Megapoints system 2 and for the fiddle yards I'll use the old Megapoints system 1.
Reliability Issues.
Over the last few years my reliability has steadily improved to about 95%. Last year I only had one broken rail to deal with. So things are settling down. However I'm getting problems with the servos operating the points. When you fist apply power to the servos they jerk, which in turn can make the operating arm dislodge from the actuator that's attached to the point itself. Also this jerking movement puts a lot of stress on the solder joints that hold the pins that are soldered to the point tie bars. The solution is to replace all the servos with digital ones which are not effected with a jerk when the power is applied. Only problem is that these servos are out of stock everywhere.
Well that's the state of play with Edington Junction. Hopefully my next update I'll have more progress to report, but don't hold your breath.
All Best
Dave
Happy New Year to you all. I was hoping I would have a lot to update on the progress of my layout, but no. I still have a mental block on doing the scenic side of things. I think it's mainly due to lack of confidence. Still lets be positive and here's what I have done over 2023.
On actual scenic stuff I have completed the first layer of scenics by adding a 3D effect of attaching trees and hedges to the backscene. The aim of this is to help push back the backscene giving greater depth of perception. Obviously this will be realised once more layers of scenics are added. I've also started mocking up hedges and started making lots and lots of trees.
Bridgwater Fiddle Yard.
I'm very pleased in how the Bridgwater fiddle yard turned out. Overall it works very well bringing trains in, preparing and departing trains. I have yet to install electro-magnets due to not being able to get them at a reasonable cost.
I was hoping to get a passing loop temporarily installed on the main fiddle yard, just to create a bit more playability.
New Point Control System.
I also installed a new control system for the points and signaling. Adding the fiddle yards meant that I would have to expand at some point. So I took the plunge and replaced the control system on the scenic with the new Megapoints system 2 and for the fiddle yards I'll use the old Megapoints system 1.
Reliability Issues.
Over the last few years my reliability has steadily improved to about 95%. Last year I only had one broken rail to deal with. So things are settling down. However I'm getting problems with the servos operating the points. When you fist apply power to the servos they jerk, which in turn can make the operating arm dislodge from the actuator that's attached to the point itself. Also this jerking movement puts a lot of stress on the solder joints that hold the pins that are soldered to the point tie bars. The solution is to replace all the servos with digital ones which are not effected with a jerk when the power is applied. Only problem is that these servos are out of stock everywhere.
Well that's the state of play with Edington Junction. Hopefully my next update I'll have more progress to report, but don't hold your breath.
All Best
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
Dave,
I have just bought Emax ES08 digital servos through eBay. However, it seems that digital servos aren't the preferred choice for points.
What servo controllers do you have? Keith Norgrove can probably advise on how to deal with this, especially for MERG units.
Jol
I have just bought Emax ES08 digital servos through eBay. However, it seems that digital servos aren't the preferred choice for points.
What servo controllers do you have? Keith Norgrove can probably advise on how to deal with this, especially for MERG units.
Jol
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Re: Edington Junction
Hi Jol. I use Megapoints system 1 and 2. System 2 on the scenic side of the layout and system 1 in the fiddle yard. I use a MERG DCC controller. The servos that Dave at Megapoints recommends are the HK-SCM9-6.
All Best
Dave
All Best
Dave
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Re: Edington Junction
Jol Wilkinson wrote:Dave,
I have just bought Emax ES08 digital servos through eBay. However, it seems that digital servos aren't the preferred choice for points.
What servo controllers do you have? Keith Norgrove can probably advise on how to deal with this, especially for MERG units.
Jol
I suggest the use of Hobbyking HK15178. These are analogue servos, which are the type to use on points.
regards
Alan
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Re: Edington Junction
Alan Turner wrote:Jol Wilkinson wrote:Dave,
I have just bought Emax ES08 digital servos through eBay. However, it seems that digital servos aren't the preferred choice for points.
What servo controllers do you have? Keith Norgrove can probably advise on how to deal with this, especially for MERG units.
Jol
I suggest the use of Hobbyking HK15178. These are analogue servos, which are the type to use on points.
regards
Alan
Hi Alan,
the few digital servos I have used are fitted to signals, in this case I needed one more to match the others I already had for a three doll bracket signal. I use HobbyKing or TowerPro analogue servos on the points.
Jol
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Re: Edington Junction
I'm wondering if your servo problems aren't basically mechanical, although I admit I've never used one on a layout in my life. When your digital servo is switched on it will presumably drive to a datum position before counting steps from there and this is your 'jerk'. The link between any form of actuator and tiebar should have some 'give' in it so that the blade is held against the stockrail rather than parked near it - the old omega loop. This would also absorb a minor jerk - do you have such things?
DaveB
DaveB
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Re: Edington Junction
As I have previously mentioned to Jol, the problem with using Digital servos for pointwork is that once programmed they will attempt to drive until the set endpoint. In certain circumstances this can be after the pointblade has closed. The can result in the destruction of the turnout etc.
Using a servo4 with analogue servos is much better as the power will cut out when enough data has been transmitted, any tendency to twitch is obviated by the use of pull-up resistors which will help to suppress any twitch. (Imho) adding pull-up resistors to analogue servos will help in any application. Of course the servo4 has the resistors built-in. adding a 10k resistor between the positive and signal leads will probably help anyway, where a non-Servo4 board is being used.
Servos thus fitted will probably only twitch when first being switched on before setting the endpoints.
Don't ask me about the science of it all just what I've heard and experienced first-hand (probably more than most).
Using Digital ones for signals simplifies the twitching issues, though the use the resistors renders the issue less problematical with analogue servos.
Using a servo4 with analogue servos is much better as the power will cut out when enough data has been transmitted, any tendency to twitch is obviated by the use of pull-up resistors which will help to suppress any twitch. (Imho) adding pull-up resistors to analogue servos will help in any application. Of course the servo4 has the resistors built-in. adding a 10k resistor between the positive and signal leads will probably help anyway, where a non-Servo4 board is being used.
Servos thus fitted will probably only twitch when first being switched on before setting the endpoints.
Don't ask me about the science of it all just what I've heard and experienced first-hand (probably more than most).
Using Digital ones for signals simplifies the twitching issues, though the use the resistors renders the issue less problematical with analogue servos.
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Re: Edington Junction
Whatever is going on, you still need some resilience in the mechanical link. A Tortoise, installed as manufacturer recommends, is a fine example of this. If this behaviour is considered normal for a servo then it needs to be accommodated. If it isn't, which seems more sensible, then source needs finding. It's not excessive neatness in the wiring is it - track feeds tied in with servo signals? Shared power supplies could be a problem.
Looking at it another way, a system should survive a single fault without disaster. If an electronic fault can cause the servos to drive beyond their normal travel then I'm suggesting this should be allowed for, if only for your own peace of mind. I'm certainly not getting drawn into model servos - my experience is with professional stuff - but if they're capable of anomalous behaviour then it should be accepted and not allowed to wreck your tiebars.
DaveB
Looking at it another way, a system should survive a single fault without disaster. If an electronic fault can cause the servos to drive beyond their normal travel then I'm suggesting this should be allowed for, if only for your own peace of mind. I'm certainly not getting drawn into model servos - my experience is with professional stuff - but if they're capable of anomalous behaviour then it should be accepted and not allowed to wreck your tiebars.
DaveB
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Re: Edington Junction
Part of the problem is that servos are stall motors in that the power is constant. This is a good thing if you want to use the power for signal lights as well but not so good if you are using a digital servo with a turnout. If you use servo4, it is designed to switch off the signal not the power.
My experience is that a pull-up resistor will remove twitches, the servos will twitch on the first use as they try to centre themselves but be OK thereafter having had their endpoints set.
My experience is that a pull-up resistor will remove twitches, the servos will twitch on the first use as they try to centre themselves but be OK thereafter having had their endpoints set.
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Re: Edington Junction
stephenfreeman wrote:Part of the problem is that servos are stall motors in that the power is constant.
No they are not "Stall motors".
Tortoise motors are stall motors - servos are not.
regards
Alan
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